38 replies to this topic

[RustyBolts]

Got to agree with Aresye. I have been in similar situations several times. same results.

[Gerwig]

I don't like quirk balancing at all and I don't play clan mechs. I'll say this though, I wouldn't want to play mechs with negative quirks on them, they should go away in the rebalancing.

[Lyoto Machida]

Gerwig, on 05 September 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

I don't like quirk balancing at all and I don't play clan mechs. I'll say this though, I wouldn't want to play mechs with negative quirks on them, they should go away in the rebalancing.

You don't play Clan mechs, yet you have a Ghost Bear av here in the forum?

[xCico]

Everyone who doesnt support IL MECHWARRIOR here is a scrub and you should 1v1 me so you get rekt because of bs you posting against IL MECHWARRIOR.

[Trev Firestorm]

Its like it was a one day event or something...

[Lily from animove]

Well, majority of IS pilots never properly accepted/understood that their lasers are more heat efficient, They just cried about raw one shot damage numbers and ranges. Together with the quirks some IS mechs can be more "cheese" ,as some like to say, than clanners ever could be. together with a 260t drop limit, it allows ridiculous stuff. Especially when you consider that CW mixes all skill levels, It allows the skilled pilots in specific dropdecks to ridiculously exceed the usual mechwarriors

Thats a reason why the initial 240 was given, because we shaowed PGI what cheese can go on if its more, to prevent this cheap stuff going on.

it would have been way better to leave IS at 240 and if needed take some tonnage form the clans.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 September 2015 - 12:29 AM.

[Ironwithin]

Trev Firestorm, on 05 September 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

Its like it was a one day event or something...

This needs repeating, I think.

[Kmieciu]

I own use all the mechs Il Mechwarrior talks about, and agree they have higher damage potential than any clan mech. For example, I feel rather disappointed when I score under 800 damage in a Battlemaster 1S or 1G during a PUG drop. I had a round in JM6-DD where I scored 1100 damage within a 3 minute stomp, and I was on the losing side!

But what he is not telling you is that those mechs are easier to dispatch than Timbers and Hellbringers. UAC JM6 is the easiest one to kill, since it cannot torso twist. It usually takes 2 laser-vomits to the ST. Battlemaster has better hitboxes and agility, but all it also is ridiculously easy to kill.

Wolverine is truly great, but if the PUGs knew to aim for the arm, you would do 300-500 damage max. Blackjack is much easier to kill than a Shadowcat.

The only mech that is not a glass cannon is the Thunderbolt. But on the other hand, it has a huge CT and I have cored my share of them while running a fracking Adder.

So, against clueless PUGs, those IS mechs are the best in CW. And don't forget that Clan PUGs use the terrible stock clan mechs.

But when fighting against competent opponents, the durability is as important as raw damage output.

Edited by Kmieciu, 06 September 2015 - 02:16 AM.

[D A T A]

you would be surprised how easy it is to destroy a clan mech side torso.......and when i lose a side torso i eject.
CLAN XL ADVANTAGE DOES NOT EXIST

[latinisator]

Wonders of asymmetrical builds, huh?

My two cents:
The raise of 20t did not change much. Ok, seeing some guys field 4 Thunderwubs causes some nausea. But when playing accordingly, Clans can still win.
When the teams I was in lost, it was due to not forming firing lines, hugging friggin Omega in counter attack, AFK MechParkers, serious blocking of firing lines / retreat ways and bringing supershitty trial Mechs.

Make CW 10v12 when it is Clan vs IS! Same tonnage AND 1/1/1/1. Remove the uberquirks on both sides, delete /reduce ghost heat for Clans. There is no MM, ELO, PSR at all involved, so why not take this to a test (public test server if need be)?


What I did not like at all in the 20t upgrade was how it was implemented. I learned about it ingame, half an hour later Paul posted it in here. Definitely not cool!
I do not have twitter, facebook and whatever. This: http://mwomercs.com/ is the page I want information posted on regarding this game first, nothing else.

[BlackHeroe]

Yeah i think it was an hip shot experiment - but heh it only lasted one day.
And most of the IS players i met couldnt use the extra tonnage (only maybe with trials), cause they didnt had a passable drop deck for it.

Surely the clan vs. IS needs more balance. And yes i think clans are much heavier then IS.
Its the lore, but its also the lore IS goes with more people, more mechs and tonnage. (On the other hand the more powered, but also with downhands like heat, Clans which dont have the resources for it. Also the genetic advantaged Clanners with nearly no experience against ISlers whcih have the battle experience.

I ask you why most of the better players normally play in clan units ?
Right it was sayd before, cause most experienced players (whom donnot want to have a disadvantage) choose the best way where they can do it - and its on the clanners..

So why can some very good player make such a bunch ? Cause he is much better then his teammates - if they would be equal, normally not one player would make the whole match.
MWO not needs more super-duper Troopers - it needs more new players not gettin frustrated.

And it may sound like heresy for you, but the most balancing issue is to bring more balance to the more advantaged players vs newbies and bad players - to the super organized teams against not so organized teams.
So i say: Buff the new and bad ones, nerf the super Players.

It wont make the opposite coming through, but it will surely bring more balance and more equal chances to the game.


Addition:

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 06 September 2015 - 03:36 AM, said:

you would be surprised how easy it is to destroy a clan mech side torso.......and when i lose a side torso i eject.
CLAN XL ADVANTAGE DOES NOT EXIST

Yust cause you dont use it, it doesnt like to be existing.
If you would have better enemys - you maybe had to use it! I guess its yust a farming thing then..

[Jet Black Dog]

I would think the better and more experienced players would WANT to play at disadvantage - the underdog IS - like when you put Xcom on 'classic' or impossible difficulty ironman...
( or "LongWar" mod: MOAR DIFFICULY PLEASE)... My experience in games is some people want more challenge, some want more advantages. Personality types, perhaps.
The balance issues.. well, nothing says 'game balance' like higher technology piloted by genetically-modified mini-zentraidi. Right? Kind of hard to "balance" a situation that was inherently imbalanced.
Meta and laser vomit, touch on other issues - care to discuss how weapon convergence - weapons moving IN the torso - rather unlike a multi-barrel weapon or, say, fighter - encourages the 'maximum number of smallest pulse laser' builds - (which DOES tend to favor clan - wouldn't you agree) - and pin point alpha kills that are at the heart of many of these issues?
As an IS player, I look at quirks that can make ER lasers range with missiles... and.... shake my head.
my joking response is, of all this 20 tons is what gets you? - but the intended poitn was , i believe, that clan isn't so imbalanced as to require another inner sphere buff - even if lore would suggest an IS material advantage. I've seen KCOM "bid" 24 mechs on a CW match - there, THAT's clan. But to balance?
Want balanced? Succession wars. Or AI as Clan as the 'dragon' in PvE...
Short of that, quirks and laser vomit and counter nerf is going to add bandaid after bandaid. Assymetrical balance is quite the lofty goal.

Edited by Mercier, 06 September 2015 - 08:18 AM.

[Miles McQuiston]

IS running meta stuff are hard to beat. Do I think they need another 20 tons. Nope. If they nerf the quirks, they will need every bit of that 20 tons. TTK is too low so I welcome nerfs on both ends. Clans should get laser damage reduction to .5 over IS with the extended range and same duration. Thus range and just a bit of damage is the edge.

[IraqiWalker]

IL MECHWARRIOR, on 04 September 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

Well guys, i am a great fan of CW, and probably one of the players with most LP earnt in the whole world. I love it so much that i used to spend hours planning which drop deck to use on which map, clan and IS.

Well, your idea to give IS 260 tons is so riddicolous and out of any logic, so stupid (and if i write what i should i get banned) that i refuse to play CW if this madness remains online........you managed to lose the support of one of the biggest CW fans around. And if you managed to make me dislike CW (and i thought it was impossible) imagine how many players you are losing.

even 240 vs 240

CLAN DROP DECK IS UNDERPOWERED

i know that 99% of mwo players do not agree......but hey, 99% of mwo players have no idea on how to play CW.

This is what you do when an excellent player uses OP IS mechs.










this happens because clan laser duration an heat output is OVERNERFED

1) timber and crow nerfs must be removed

2) cerml must lose 0.2 duration OR gain 50mt range OR lose 1 heat

3) cerll must gain 100 mt range and lose 1 heat
(wtf? IS erll on raven 4x, awesome, blr 1s, tdr5ss, on1p, ctf1x, enf 4r has more range, less heat, less duration than clan erll............how did you manage to make IS lasers better than clan ones?)

4) clpl must lose 1 heat


Bang Bus BLR1g xl395 3lpl+4ml with 10 ad 20% quirks feels OP

BJ1x with 6ml+2mpl feels like a 2 ac20 jager that runs at 116 kph and weights 45 tons: it is OP

IS erll that reach 911 meters and have burn time of 1second feels OP (BLR 1s)

Jager 3uac5 that shoots like a 6 uac5 direwolf feels OP

Thunderbolts that can tank as stalkers and shoot 3lpl non stop feel OP

Wolverine with 4 ll or 3ll+2ml that shoots as much as a stalker feels OP

Stop complaining you baby.

Also, if we wanted to really get down to it. The IS should get more tonnage per drop, to offset clan tech, and it fits with the lore.

On the other hand, the 260 ton thing was part of a test, as Paul mentioned, and was reverted.


You really should be ashamed. Clan is practically rolling unobstructed, and you have the balls to say clan decks are underpowered? Do you even play the game? Clan mechs are currently the best mechs ton for ton. Hell, the Ebonjaguar is one of the best mechs in the entire game, not just it's weight class. It's better than most assaults, for crying out loud.

On top of that, you want the tiny nerfs on the TBR, and SCR removed?

Look, if you want, I can actually sit down, and show you how wrong you are about every single weapon system in the game, and teach you exactly why clan tech is better. On the other hand, you seem to enjoy your own imaginary worlds, so that might not happen, but if you want, the offer is there. Name any weapon in the game, and I'll show you why the clan alternative is better. Even ACs.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 06 September 2015 - 06:34 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

I see a bunch of screen shots from fairly close games, where IL MECHWARRIOR carried most of his team.

Basically, the games were pretty balanced, but his team would likely have lost if he was not there. The only imbalance here appears to be skill.

[Tarogato]

Aresye Kerensky, on 05 September 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

- I'm cored in a Clan mech battling a cored IS mech.
- Both our cores are cherry red.
- The quirked IS mech is behind cover.
- I have my crosshair set waiting for them to poke out again.
- IS player pokes out.
- I fire first dead center on the IS mech's CT.
- WHILE my lasers burn, the IS mech returns fire to my CT.
- I get killed first, immediately interrupting my laser burn, and the IS player lives.

I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter bull%#&!

Why did you fight within the IS player's range? You should have used the superior clan range and mobility to reposition and hit him from beyond where he could return fire.

[Lily from animove]

Tarogato, on 06 September 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

Why did you fight within the IS player's range? You should have used the superior clan range and mobility to reposition and hit him from beyond where he could return fire.

because maps offer enough cover to get in any range needed and they have an "end" so a clanpalyer can not retreat to keep the range all the time. further some IS mechs even have more ange on specific weapons due to quirks.

[Revenge UK]

To be fair ... if my opinion counts, the problem is more with Clanners building clan mechs which have to rely on Ammo based weapons due to the heat build up. I saw a guy the other day eject cause he had run out of Streaks rather than use the lasers he had left!!! (ARGH) Which was not the case before the laser nerfs came into effect. The clan tech weapons are hot yes, but the reason being is the clan mechs have other advantages which are not being taken into account. Speed, arm based weapons systems, jump jets that work pretty well and so on. before we just moved to Davion we dropped Clan for some time and yes it was a struggle occasionally, but if you organise your team correctly you can win. the biggest issue with the solo drops I see are people bringing dire wolfs then aTBR then an ice ferret or 2, as if the weights of the mechs available are not correct yet, put that into account with the fact inner sphere mechs need less skill to "heat manage" than a clan mech does some pilots playing the clans are not doing to great. Saying that a clan mech in a decent pilots hands can rip people apart for fun!

personally I think with the new IIC mechs coming and more variety of Clan mechs being available this will get more balanced.

As for the nerf on the TBR and Storm I think they balanced out quite nicely for the pug and group queues its the CW games they struggle again with the heat v ammo problems. Not sure how this could be resolved?? Maybe a question to ask PGI? Ammo truck anyone! ) or purchasable ammo restock for mech used the same way as an air strike maybe? one use per mech back at the base/specific zone? (these are questions not what I want to see, but maybe a way to even up how long a mech can stay in a battle?) That way the TBR and Storm can carry some LRMS and not just laser builds?

Hope that makes some sense!!
Rev

Edited by Revenge UK, 07 September 2015 - 07:39 AM.

[Aresye]

Tarogato, on 06 September 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

Why did you fight within the IS player's range? You should have used the superior clan range and mobility to reposition and hit him from beyond where he could return fire.

When your opponent is behind cover and they have to walk out into YOUR crosshair to fire at you, YOU have the advantage. That's basic trading 101 in this game.

Besides, that Clan range advantage is pretty much completely irrelevant on all public queue maps save for Alpine Peaks, as most fighting takes place between 300-600m, and nearly every quirked IS laser vomit mech can easily get full damage there. Opening up range with longer duration weapons is also a disadvantage in of itself.