94 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

Just had a thought tonight. I still see lots of people with many random weapons on their mechs. Two machineguns, an AC5, a flamer, an LRM 5 and some random laser assortment. If you are running something like this you are handicapping yourself. You are running a pre-dreadnought in a dreadnought age.

The pre-dreadnought had an assortment of battery sizes. But in 1906 the HMS Dreadnought came along and changed the game.

"Dreadnought was the first battleship of her era to have a uniform main battery, rather than having a few large guns complemented by a heavy secondary battery of smaller guns. She was also the first capital ship to be powered by steam turbines, making her the fastest battleship in the world at the time of her completion." https://en.wikipedia...ught_%281906%29

Who new 1906 battleships were meta

[Davegt27]

lol I was just looking earlier at WW1 camo patterns

https://www.google.c...CFYjTgAod2UEKog

[FlipOver]

Like myself you will see replies from others with "sub-par" builds showing how good those builds can be.

With MGs and Srms:


I doubt it was my fault for the teams loss, though...

Edited by FlipOver, 08 September 2015 - 02:33 AM.

[Kiiyor]

"And here we have the USS DireWolf, the first ship to consist of 11 Iowa and 3 Yamato battleships welded together".

[Yokaiko]

XX Sulla XX, on 08 September 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

Just had a thought tonight. I still see lots of people with many random weapons on their mechs. Two machineguns, an AC5, a flamer, an LRM 5 and some random laser assortment. If you are running something like this you are handicapping yourself. You are running a pre-dreadnought in a dreadnought age.

The pre-dreadnought had an assortment of battery sizes. But in 1906 the HMS Dreadnought came along and changed the game.

"Dreadnought was the first battleship of her era to have a uniform main battery, rather than having a few large guns complemented by a heavy secondary battery of smaller guns. She was also the first capital ship to be powered by steam turbines, making her the fastest battleship in the world at the time of her completion." https://en.wikipedia...ught_%281906%29

Who new 1906 battleships were meta

You may note that by the end of the Battleship era we were back to main, secondary, and tertiary batteries

The Iowa class (USS Missouri) Carried 9 16" guns, 10 5" guns and 20 20mm AA turrets
The Japanese Yamamoto class (considered the most power Battleships of the day) carried 40cm guns, 12 15cm guns (4x3 turrets) and 25 25mm AA batteries.

[XX Sulla XX]

Davegt27, on 08 September 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

lol I was just looking earlier at WW1 camo patterns

https://www.google.c...CFYjTgAod2UEKog

Always thought it was interesting camo

FlipOver, on 08 September 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

Like myself you will see replies from others with "sub-par" builds showing how good those builds can be.

With MGs and Srms:


I doubt it was my fault for the teams loss, though...

No your showing how bad the people you were playing are

[XX Sulla XX]

Yokaiko, on 08 September 2015 - 02:32 AM, said:

You may note that by the end of the Battleship era we were back to main, secondary, and tertiary batteries

The Iowa class (USS Missouri) Carried 9 16" guns, 10 5" guns and 20 20mm AA turrets
The Japanese Yamamoto class (considered the most power Battleships of the day) carried 40cm guns, 12 15cm guns (4x3 turrets) and 25 25mm AA batteries.

And that had mainly to do with the size growing larger. And for AA batteries etc the need for anti aircraft guns. Both ships were setup around a main battery of 9 very large and long range guns. Everything else was secondary. If they were to have had a one on one battle it would have been with the main guns at range. And one would have been sunk before any of the AA batteries could do anything. So unless we are going to need AA guns on the mechs its not a good example They were just a meta.

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 08 September 2015 - 02:54 AM.

[Yokaiko]

XX Sulla XX, on 08 September 2015 - 02:49 AM, said:

And that had mainly to do with the size growing larger. And for AA batteries etc the need for anti aircraft guns. Both ships were setup around a main battery of 9 very large and long range guns. Everything else was secondary. If they were to have had a one on one battle it would have been with the main guns at range. And one would have been sunk before any of the AA batteries could do anything. So unless we are going to need AA guns on the mechs its not a good example They were just a meta.

5" inch guns lob a 70 pound warhead over 7 miles.....which is actually the visual distance due to the curvature of the Earth.

PS I'm a weapons tech for the Department of the Navy =D

Edited by Yokaiko, 08 September 2015 - 02:53 AM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Screw the meta. I will run what I like, and you will smile and say "Thank you, sir."

Or in other words: People will run what they think is fun, and that is their right. Personally I think you all should be forced to run stock only.

[CDLord HHGD]

I use mixed loadouts because I refuse to use the meta-crutch. I refuse to join the L33T hack meta tryhards who are wrecking the spirit of this game with their alpha-warrior playstyle. I do pretty well for myself too and I am not the least bit affected by the nerfs when they do come down the line.

How many ACH players with cry foul when that chassis is fixed?
Who will cry foul when the quirks are all reworked?
Who will protest a laser nerf or general heat adjustment?
I will not be among them.

Changes are coming down the pipe. I don't expect to be affected by them much.

[XX Sulla XX]

Yokaiko, on 08 September 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

5" inch guns lob a 70 pound warhead over 7 miles.....which is actually the visual distance due to the curvature of the Earth.

PS I'm a weapons tech for the Department of the Navy =D

PS interesting but did not make your point. Adding secondary guns again was more about size getting much larger and having secondary needs like anti aircraft. Thats why like battleships the main guns are still the main factor. Its why both ships you mentioned had batteries of nine VERY large main guns.

Steinar Bergstol, on 08 September 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

Screw the meta. I will run what I like, and you will smile and say "Thank you, sir."

Or in other words: People will run what they think is fun, and that is their right. Personally I think you all should be forced to run stock only.

Never suggested there should be a rule you have to run good builds. But some people just do not understand how much they are handicapping themselves If you understand it and are a masochist well thats OK by me haha.

cdlord, on 08 September 2015 - 02:56 AM, said:

I use mixed loadouts because I refuse to use the meta-crutch. I refuse to join the L33T hack meta tryhards who are wrecking the spirit of this game with their alpha-warrior playstyle. I do pretty well for myself too and I am not the least bit affected by the nerfs when they do come down the line.

How many ACH players with cry foul when that chassis is fixed?
Who will cry foul when the quirks are all reworked?
Who will protest a laser nerf or general heat adjustment?
I will not be among them.

Changes are coming down the pipe. I don't expect to be affected by them much.

So you really think balance changes are going to make min max meta type builds not a thing?

[Clownwarlord]

I have some mechs that are 50/50 on long and short and others that are setup for all the same range. An example of my all one range would be my Battlemaster 1D with its 5 large lasers. As for a 50/50 range build it usually means my Atlas S with its AC20 4 medium lasers and then 4 lrm5s. A lot of people have issues with lrms on an assault but let me explain.

It isn't 100% lrm which allows it to be on the front line and use that armor to help spread damage as a 100 ton mech. The lrms also help give a mech that has low hard points, a way to do damage at range and stay in cover for the most part. The lrms provide suppression support by suppressing the enemy into their cover which means their direct fire weapons are not melting my armor (saving it for the brawling to come). So ... eventually I get into a brawl, the enemy is damaged because of the lrms I have more armor because of the lrms and I win with my AC20 and 4 medium lasers killing the enemy.

[Yokaiko]

XX Sulla XX, on 08 September 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

PS interesting but did not make your point. Adding secondary guns again was more about size getting much larger and having secondary needs like anti aircraft. Thats why like battleships the main guns are still the main factor. Its why both ships you mentioned had batteries of nine VERY large main guns.

Incorrect, the Firecontrol systems that allow a 5" to hit a plane didn't exist for the 5" 38, that didn't come along till the 70s with the MK92 (Frigate 76mm main battery) and MK86 5" 54 main battery still in service on the Ticonderoga Cruisers.

20-25mm were the AA guns, the fact is it took a LONG time to load a 16" gun so something had to fill the gap.

The range was used for shore support, because against manuvering targets over the horizon wasn't a lot of use without a spotter (which they used destoyers for)

[Kilo 40]

early 20th century naval combat and mech combat aren't exactly comparable.

[XX Sulla XX]

clownwarlord, on 08 September 2015 - 03:13 AM, said:

I have some mechs that are 50/50 on long and short and others that are setup for all the same range. An example of my all one range would be my Battlemaster 1D with its 5 large lasers. As for a 50/50 range build it usually means my Atlas S with its AC20 4 medium lasers and then 4 lrm5s. A lot of people have issues with lrms on an assault but let me explain.

It isn't 100% lrm which allows it to be on the front line and use that armor to help spread damage as a 100 ton mech. The lrms also help give a mech that has low hard points, a way to do damage at range and stay in cover for the most part. The lrms provide suppression support by suppressing the enemy into their cover which means their direct fire weapons are not melting my armor (saving it for the brawling to come). So ... eventually I get into a brawl, the enemy is damaged because of the lrms I have more armor because of the lrms and I win with my AC20 and 4 medium lasers killing the enemy.

Hmm so top players just have not figured your your formula?

[El Bandito]

Basically, boated weapons = better performance. We knew this since 2012. Even further in the past, if you count other MW titles.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 September 2015 - 03:20 AM.

[Rizzwind]

XX Sulla XX, on 08 September 2015 - 02:19 AM, said:

Just had a thought tonight. I still see lots of people with many random weapons on their mechs. Two machineguns, an AC5, a flamer, an LRM 5 and some random laser assortment. If you are running something like this you are handicapping yourself. You are running a pre-dreadnought in a dreadnought age.

The pre-dreadnought had an assortment of battery sizes. But in 1906 the HMS Dreadnought came along and changed the game.

"Dreadnought was the first battleship of her era to have a uniform main battery, rather than having a few large guns complemented by a heavy secondary battery of smaller guns. She was also the first capital ship to be powered by steam turbines, making her the fastest battleship in the world at the time of her completion." https://en.wikipedia...ught_%281906%29

Who new 1906 battleships were meta

Some of Us handicap are own mechs because the game would be to easy and boring without it.

Edited by James T Kirk., 08 September 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

XX Sulla XX, on 08 September 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

So you really think balance changes are going to make min max meta type builds not a thing?

I don't, not that naive. However, there will be changes, and these forums will be filled with hate and vitriol against PGI for ruining their mechs, their playstyle, their meta.

Again, any change, any balancing, any nerfs will not affect any of my mechs or my playstyle. And yes, I view myself as taking the high road here, not succumbing to my baser instinct to PWN my fellow gamer, to ruin his game just so I could have a better one, with the meta.

[Hit the Deck]

They are actually taking a note from MWO because they will soon add "Gauss Rifles" to their floating weapon platforms to make them more meta. Still somewhat related, I have a hunch that theirs will not feature a charging mechanism.

[Yokaiko]

Kilo 40, on 08 September 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:

early 20th century naval combat and mech combat aren't exactly comparable.

Correct, buy the 70s we had missiles that flew over 100 miles, and Carriers end the reign of the Battleship as a capital vessel during WWII.

Which was my point, it was basically a incorrect premise by the OP.

Hit the Deck, on 08 September 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

They are actually taking a note from MWO because they will soon add "Gauss Rifles" to their floating weapon platforms to make them more meta. Still somewhat related, I have a hunch that theirs will not feature a charging mechanism.

Yeah as soon as they figure out how to isolate the elements so the barrel doesn't self destruct on activation. Rail guns are a long way from maturity.