34 replies to this topic

[XX Sulla XX]

There are tons of Victors in the games and I think they need to be updated so they are more viable. Lets look at some problems and solutions. Also the problems were not fixed on the test server I checked.

1. To big for its weight. The Victor is ONLY 80 tons but is huge. It should be just a closer to Blacknight size than Atlas size. The Atlas is 20 tons heavier the Blackknight is 5 tons less.

Solution - Give it really good armor quirks or rescale it or some combination of the two.

2. Compared to the best mechs it has bad hard points and not enough of them. For most versions key hard points are in the low slung arms. And its a mixed bag of weapon types and locations. It just not compete well against the newer mechs around its weight.

Solution - Give it good general weapons quirks. (Does not need to be PPC and gauss. Personally prefer something more general.)

3. Its not very durable. This has a lot to do with the huge scaling I think more than hitboxes.

See solution to 1.

4. It has a movement type that is to large for its weight. It really should move more like a TW or other heavies.

Solution - Give all of them good agility quirks.

5. It needs some of the other variants released with better hardpoints. I believe some are modeled and ready to go.

Solution - Release some of the better variants.

If you agree it would be good to post this feedback on the text server threads and also to tweet Russ. Might also help to message Paul and Tina.

Public Test Server Feedback.

Russ Twitter

PS - Yes I know they work on tier 5 etc. Any mech at work on tier 5

Edited by XX Sulla XX, 27 November 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sadly, I gave up on Victors long ago.

I'm running one as part of Ed Steele's "What Mech Challenge" which is OK as a Tier 4, but still have far more crap games than good. The Robot is just bad.

And that leaves me sad.

[DAYLEET]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2015 - 03:24 PM, said:

Sadly, I gave up on Victors long ago.

I'm running one as part of Ed Steele's "What Mech Challenge" which is OK as a Tier 4, but still have far more crap games than good. The Robot is just bad.

And that leaves me sad.

3LPL +1 Gauss is your cheesy answer. That's what mine has and you should be near the top. Keep the jj you will need them. just check and i dont have jj on mine my bad.

Edited by DAYLEET, 27 November 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

DAYLEET, on 27 November 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

3LPL +1 Gauss is your cheesy answer. That's what mine has and you should be near the top. Keep the jj you will need them. just check and i dont have jj on mine my bad.

1) I hate gauss. I can use it, but the charge mechanic is clunky with my brawling fighting style. Only ever use them on slow moving mechs, TBH.

2) No JJs, not a VTR.

3) Bloody expensive to build on a new acct.

4) I'm lactose intolerant. Don't do cheese.

[El Bandito]

DAYLEET, on 27 November 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

3LPL +1 Gauss is your cheesy answer. That's what mine has and you should be near the top. Keep the jj you will need them. just check and i dont have jj on mine my bad.

I used to run my sniper DS with 3xERLL + Gauss, but now my 6xLL Battlemaster is simply far superior to it. Besides, Gauss is getting nerfed come December 1st. Dragon Slayer's new quirks are just as underwhelming as the current one, doggoneit.

[FupDup]

Oh how the mighty have fallen...

General fixes to the game that would help the VTR as well:
1. Unscrew JJs. (Of course also have to find a way to prevent toaster pastry shenanigans from returning in full force)
2. Do something about the IS XL (ahem McGral)
3. Fix SRMs

VTR-Specific fixes in the meantime:
1. More side torso structure quirks
2. Maybe increased torso twist radius to help it spread damage better and emphasize its mobility

This specific mech has about as much firepower as one would expect for its size (okay hardpoints and pod space), so I don't think this particular mech makes as much sense for weapon quirks. Its main issue is having its ST's eaten out by precision laser vomit. Its secondary issue is gimped JJs.

[cSand]

giving the VTR and the HGN JJ quirks would help both out ALOT

in fact that's really all they need

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 27 November 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh how the mighty have fallen...

General fixes to the game that would help the VTR as well:
1. Unscrew JJs. (Of course also have to find a way to prevent toaster pastry shenanigans from returning in full force)
2. Do something about the IS XL (ahem McGral)
3. Fix SRMs

VTR-Specific fixes in the meantime:
1. More side torso structure quirks
2. Maybe increased torso twist radius to help it spread damage better and emphasize its mobility

This specific mech has about as much firepower as one would expect for its size (okay hardpoints and pod space), so I don't think this particular mech makes as much sense for weapon quirks. Its main issue is having its ST's eaten out by precision laser vomit. Its secondary issue is gimped JJs.

There are some SRM buffs coming, and even increasing the discrepancy that is half weight Clam SRMs, from 40CM difference in spread up to 100CM, but not quite enough to differentiate them. That 2.5 damage would go a long ways.

XL normalization helps the Victor especially, as he doesn't exactly have small STs; just large arms. Quirks help, but if you need to quirk every other mech, there's a problem.


In other news, JJ code:

Spoiler

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassV" id="1504">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="0.5" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassV.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassV_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassV"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="40" minTons="20" heat="1.7,0.09" turn="1.0" boost_z="37" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="110" duration="3.75" cooldown="1.0"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassIV" id="1503">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="0.5" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassIV.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassIV_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassIV"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="60" minTons="40" heat="2.0,0.06" turn="0.9" boost_z="75" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="120" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.7"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassIII" id="1502">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassIII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassIII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassIII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="80" minTons="60" heat="1.7,0.09" turn="0.8" boost_z="75" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5547"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassII" id="1501">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="90" minTons="80" heat="2.25,0.25" turn="0.6" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassI" id="1500">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="2" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassI.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassI_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassI"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="200" minTons="90" heat="3.0,0.09" turn="0.7" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="220" duration="4.1" cooldown="0.53125"/>

Specifically, the Victor JJs:

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassII" id="1501">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="90" minTons="80" heat="2.25,0.25" turn="0.6" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5"/>

Of which only the Victor actually uses; no other jumping 80-85 tonners right now.
Man...the Light Z boost seems small, but I guess mass related? Myth Lynxes fly higher than Victors, both with 6 JJs.

But, they can buff the heck out of the Victor JJs with, presently, no unintended consequences.

[Zordicron]

FupDup, on 27 November 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh how the mighty have fallen...

General fixes to the game that would help the VTR as well:
1. Unscrew JJs. (Of course also have to find a way to prevent toaster pastry shenanigans from returning in full force)
2. Do something about the IS XL (ahem McGral)
3. Fix SRMs

VTR-Specific fixes in the meantime:
1. More side torso structure quirks
2. Maybe increased torso twist radius to help it spread damage better and emphasize its mobility

This specific mech has about as much firepower as one would expect for its size (okay hardpoints and pod space), so I don't think this particular mech makes as much sense for weapon quirks. Its main issue is having its ST's eaten out by precision laser vomit. Its secondary issue is gimped JJs.

ahhyerp. ST buffs to protect an XL engine is basically a requirement for the Victor to get up to snuff. It takes too much of too heavy of weapons for it to be remotely competitive firepowerwise, and lol@like a STD 250 Victor that would leave enough tonnage for weapons and JJ with a STD. It needs a big engine, to be more agile, because the mech is gigantic for its tonnage and also to be mobile enough to get out of trouble.

But, IMO the Victor is still in time out from previous jumping tryhard adventures, and thus will remain in limbo for another 6 months yet. I mean they finally tried to take the Catapult out of time out(put there from it's beta transgressions) so there is actually hope.

[SgtMagor]

never had a problem with the Victor's size, they killed the mobility for the mech. used jump jets and chased after light mechs with no problems in my DS using a gauss, but then the charge mechanic was added to. gave up using Victors, tired of asking to fix them. don't care anymore!

Edited by SgtMagor, 27 November 2015 - 06:00 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

I too, have grown tired of asking in vain. The "A" variant would at least have enough firepower to compete, but unless the Victors mobility is restored somehow it will be easy picking's with that big XL. Perhaps the LFE will save the Victor.......

[Bishop Steiner]

[Lucian Nostra]

Heh of the Victor.. oh well "but poptarting 30 PPFLD is just to much!" here we are now eating what, 50-70 point alphas instead? sooo much better...

Least Poptarting Victors took SOME measure of skill (not a lot but at least a bit)

[Bishop Steiner]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 November 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Heh of the Victor.. oh well "but poptarting 30 PPFLD is just to much!" here we are now eating what, 50-70 point alphas instead? sooo much better...

Least Poptarting Victors took SOME measure of skill (not a lot but at least a bit)

still a little more mobile than during the poptart meta.

Not a lot but at least a bit.

I'll take it to stationary toaster pastry matches.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Lucian Nostra, on 27 November 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Heh of the Victor.. oh well "but poptarting 30 PPFLD is just to much!" here we are now eating what, 50-70 point alphas instead? sooo much better...

Least Poptarting Victors took SOME measure of skill (not a lot but at least a bit)

This! We think we are better off now? At least back then there were some serious brawling going on!

[WANTED]

Haven't tried the PTS to see how much they have been updated but another thread stated they were fairing better after the agility nerf to assaults and it allowed the victor to have some use again. I'm torn cause I use to love my victors and sadly I run them in CW just to have a target absorb more damage than my medium mechs. Otherwise it's a joke.

[XX Sulla XX]

DAYLEET, on 27 November 2015 - 03:28 PM, said:

3LPL +1 Gauss is your cheesy answer. That's what mine has and you should be near the top. Keep the jj you will need them. just check and i dont have jj on mine my bad.

Not really a great build and even less so with the new super long delay coming Dec 1 on the gauss rifle. Also does not fix the size and durability.

El Bandito, on 27 November 2015 - 04:34 PM, said:

I used to run my sniper DS with 3xERLL + Gauss, but now my 6xLL Battlemaster is simply far superior to it. Besides, Gauss is getting nerfed come December 1st. Dragon Slayer's new quirks are just as underwhelming as the current one, doggoneit.

Exactly it just is not that good of a mech in the current game.

FupDup, on 27 November 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Oh how the mighty have fallen...

General fixes to the game that would help the VTR as well:
1. Unscrew JJs. (Of course also have to find a way to prevent toaster pastry shenanigans from returning in full force)
2. Do something about the IS XL (ahem McGral)
3. Fix SRMs

VTR-Specific fixes in the meantime:
1. More side torso structure quirks
2. Maybe increased torso twist radius to help it spread damage better and emphasize its mobility

This specific mech has about as much firepower as one would expect for its size (okay hardpoints and pod space), so I don't think this particular mech makes as much sense for weapon quirks. Its main issue is having its ST's eaten out by precision laser vomit. Its secondary issue is gimped JJs.

It only has fire power at short range. The heavies that are OK are all better mechs. The Grasshopper, the Blackknight, the Timberwolf etc etc. And even more so after the new balance pass.

cSand, on 27 November 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

giving the VTR and the HGN JJ quirks would help both out ALOT

in fact that's really all they need

The JJ quirks would only help pop tarting a bit. Thats not really fixing the mech in any way.

Mcgral18, on 27 November 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

There are some SRM buffs coming, and even increasing the discrepancy that is half weight Clam SRMs, from 40CM difference in spread up to 100CM, but not quite enough to differentiate them. That 2.5 damage would go a long ways.

XL normalization helps the Victor especially, as he doesn't exactly have small STs; just large arms. Quirks help, but if you need to quirk every other mech, there's a problem.


In other news, JJ code:

Spoiler

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassV" id="1504">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="0.5" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassV.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassV_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassV"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="40" minTons="20" heat="1.7,0.09" turn="1.0" boost_z="37" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="110" duration="3.75" cooldown="1.0"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassIV" id="1503">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="0.5" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassIV.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassIV_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassIV"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="60" minTons="40" heat="2.0,0.06" turn="0.9" boost_z="75" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="120" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.7"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassIII" id="1502">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassIII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassIII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassIII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="80" minTons="60" heat="1.7,0.09" turn="0.8" boost_z="75" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5547"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassII" id="1501">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="90" minTons="80" heat="2.25,0.25" turn="0.6" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5"/>

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassI" id="1500">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="2" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassI.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassI_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassI"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="200" minTons="90" heat="3.0,0.09" turn="0.7" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="220" duration="4.1" cooldown="0.53125"/>

Specifically, the Victor JJs:

-<Module CType="CJumpJetStats" name="JumpJets_ClassII" id="1501">
<ModuleStats components="centre_torso, right_torso, left_torso, right_leg, left_leg" health="10" tons="1" slots="1"/>
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\JumpJets_ClassII.dds" descTag="@JumpJets_ClassII_desc" nameTag="@JumpJets_ClassII"/>
<JumpJetStats maxTons="90" minTons="80" heat="2.25,0.25" turn="0.6" boost_z="68" boost_fwd="4.1" boost_instant="200" duration="3.75" cooldown="0.5"/>

Of which only the Victor actually uses; no other jumping 80-85 tonners right now.
Man...the Light Z boost seems small, but I guess mass related? Myth Lynxes fly higher than Victors, both with 6 JJs.

But, they can buff the heck out of the Victor JJs with, presently, no unintended consequences.

SRM buffs are not that helpful as its to fragile to brawl well. Plus in general it would be nice to have one that did well at mid range.

Eldagore, on 27 November 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

ahhyerp. ST buffs to protect an XL engine is basically a requirement for the Victor to get up to snuff. It takes too much of too heavy of weapons for it to be remotely competitive firepowerwise, and lol@like a STD 250 Victor that would leave enough tonnage for weapons and JJ with a STD. It needs a big engine, to be more agile, because the mech is gigantic for its tonnage and also to be mobile enough to get out of trouble.

But, IMO the Victor is still in time out from previous jumping tryhard adventures, and thus will remain in limbo for another 6 months yet. I mean they finally tried to take the Catapult out of time out(put there from it's beta transgressions) so there is actually hope.

True you need a large XL for it to really shine but then its to fragile and under powered.

beleneagle, on 27 November 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

I too, have grown tired of asking in vain. The "A" variant would at least have enough firepower to compete, but unless the Victors mobility is restored somehow it will be easy picking's with that big XL. Perhaps the LFE will save the Victor.......

We have asked a lot I am not sure why they cant give it OK quirks.

Bishop Steiner, on 27 November 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

Rescale would be very nice.

WANTED, on 27 November 2015 - 07:29 PM, said:

Haven't tried the PTS to see how much they have been updated but another thread stated they were fairing better after the agility nerf to assaults and it allowed the victor to have some use again. I'm torn cause I use to love my victors and sadly I run them in CW just to have a target absorb more damage than my medium mechs. Otherwise it's a joke.

I played them they are not really viable still. Main problem still is left and right torso gets shot out super easy. And because of weapons hard points you are forced to make a brawler to get fire power but they are to fragile for it now.

[Hit the Deck]

XX Sulla XX, on 27 November 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

...
2. Compared to the best mechs it has bad hard points and not enough of them....

Ah, yes, I think more missile hardpoints will make it better!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Hit the Deck, on 27 November 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

Ah, yes, I think more missile hardpoints will make it better!

I'd rather they just made it so that the missiles fired out of them properly.

Although, oddly enough, my VTR-9S with the missiles coming out in three odd volleys is the only mech I have with SRMs that actually has SRMs register their hits.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Yes it would be nice if they fixed the tube count issue. I want the "A" variant!