220 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Aren't SRMs semi-guided weapons in lore anyway?

Yes. SRMs are capable of homing in on artemis in tabletop. So they obviously have some kindve primitive guidance system.

Its MRMs and Rockets that are dumbfire in tabletop. And yeah dead fire SRMs...

Quote

MWO's SRMs are Dead Fire, but missing 0.85 damage.

This. They need to increase damage per missile to 2.5-3.0 for IS SRMs.

Clan SRMs are quite good compared to their IS counterparts, and probably fine at 2.0 damage per missile. The main reason Clan SRMs arnt used is because clan lasers are way overpowered and its the clan lasers that need to be nerfed to make Clan SRMs more appealing. Clan lasers need to be nerfed to the point where Clan SRMs are undeniably better within 270m.

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2015 - 10:10 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Necromantion, on 09 September 2015 - 10:04 AM, said:

Stream fire? HAHAHAAHAHA...

NO.

If you had a 3M CoF, totally worth it.

[Necromantion]

On the note of LRM's I would be fine with them being slightly buffed however the screenshake that is worse than that of an AC 20 needs to go. Clan lrms shouldnt shake as much as IS lrm clouds either as its a constant impact.

[Khobai]

Quote

On the note of LRM's I would be fine with them being slightly buffed however the screenshake that is worse than that of an AC 20 needs to go. Clan lrms shouldnt shake as much as IS lrm clouds either as its a constant impact.

LRMs are more complicated to fix because their viability is so entangled with ECM.

First ECM has to be nerfed. Then indirect LRMs have to be nerfed by reducing tracking/spread/screenshake. And lastly direct LRMs should be buffed by making artemis more worthwhile.

Im not saying LRMs shouldnt be able to indirect fire, but you should need TAG or NARC for indirect LRMs to actually be deadly. Without TAG or NARC a lot of the missiles should miss the target.

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Jman5]

Something seems off with SRMs and LBX. I see them hit a mech smack dab in the middle with a full barrage, but the damage does not seem to correlate with what my eyes see.

I admit I have no proof, but it just doesn't seem right. I wonder if the visual impacts are not where the missiles are actually going. Let's just say I will not be surprised in the least if some time down the line a bug is discovered with these two spread weapons. Either with hit registration or a visual bug.

[Sarlic]

Jman5, on 09 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Something seems off with SRMs and LBX. I see them hit a mech smack dab in the middle with a full barrage, but the damage does not seem to correlate with what my eyes see.

I admit I have no proof, but it just doesn't seem right. I wonder if the visual impacts are not where the missiles are actually going. Let's just say I will not be surprised in the least if some time down the line a bug is discovered with these two spread weapons. Either with hit registration or a visual bug.

I had about the same. In fact i recorded it when i hit a Thunderbolt head on and the SRMs hit the CT but it never registered. But i deleted the video without thinking when i needed more space.

I use SRMs alot, will give a headsup and start recording. But in my opinion the SRMs always have felt wonky. Sometimes its a killer, sometimes it barely scratches paint despite i see it as a full salvo hit.

[Bilbo]

Jman5, on 09 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Something seems off with SRMs and LBX. I see them hit a mech smack dab in the middle with a full barrage, but the damage does not seem to correlate with what my eyes see.

I admit I have no proof, but it just doesn't seem right. I wonder if the visual impacts are not where the missiles are actually going. Let's just say I will not be surprised in the least if some time down the line a bug is discovered with these two spread weapons. Either with hit registration or a visual bug.

My money is on hit reg.......still.

[Necromantion]

Khobai, on 09 September 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Im not saying LRMs shouldnt be able to indirect fire, but you should need TAG or NARC for indirect LRMs to actually be deadly. Without TAG or NARC a lot of the missiles should miss the target.

A good idea, perhaps make the spread increase over distance with indirect or without spotting.

Jman5, on 09 September 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Something seems off with SRMs and LBX. I see them hit a mech smack dab in the middle with a full barrage, but the damage does not seem to correlate with what my eyes see.

The fact that we got range rather than spread modules for srms/lbx still makes me facepalm. This dev team seriously eats their stupid-o's every day.

[spectralthundr]

This thread should be bumped daily til SRM's are fixed. Good original post Mcgral.

[Sarlic]

Khobai, on 09 September 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

I tested it against an Atlas and all the missiles seemed to hit.

Probably what happens is the missiles are hitting a part of the mech that isnt drawn as a hitbox, so it looks like a hit, but its really not because the hitbox is shaped weird or distorted.

We know the arctic cheeter has that problem so it stands to reason other mechs do too. The problem might be on a mech-to-mech basis rather than being a universal hit detection problem.

Not to mention the rediculous spread and low speed.

[Kristian Radoulov]

A slight tightening of SRM spread coupled with a significant boost in speed would make SRMs competitive without making them OP.

LRMs on the other hand are a very complicated issue to tackle, but I'll make it concise anyhow: planned ECM range reduction is not good, but ECM should not be a hard counter. It should be a soft counter in that it lengthens lock on time, and then after lock, reduces tracking strength by X%, with multiple ECMs stacking the tracking debuff. Speed might use a buff too, but so much about LRMs requires gameplay testing.

Edited by Kristian Radoulov, 09 September 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Not to mention the rediculous spread and low speed.

I agree that IS SRMs need a tighter spread and more damage per missile. Artemis should also give increased crit chance for SRMs and direct LRMs.

But I think C SRMs are fine with the wider spread. Something has to balance the fact they weigh half as much as IS SRMs.

Quote

A slight tightening of SRM spread coupled with a significant boost in speed would make SRMs competitive without making them OP.

Theyd need more than that. In order for SRMs to emerge in the current meta they need to equally compete with the long-range weapons.

Which means they need to be absolutely dominant within their 270m range. No other weapons should even come close to the same close range devastation except for maybe the AC/20.

SRMs need a significant damage buff, anywhere from 25%-50%.

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Khobai, on 09 September 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

LRMs are more complicated to fix because their viability is so entangled with ECM.

First ECM has to be nerfed. Then indirect LRMs have to be nerfed by reducing tracking/spread/screenshake. And lastly direct LRMs should be buffed by making artemis more worthwhile.

Im not saying LRMs shouldnt be able to indirect fire, but you should need TAG or NARC for indirect LRMs to actually be deadly. Without TAG or NARC a lot of the missiles should miss the target.

C'mon...the easiest (and truest to lore) solution is to make the equipment work like in TT. (G)ECM should just do what it's supposed to in TT. I guess PGI is too lazy to implement the other, future ECM systems down the road so they just leave it as the current status quo.

For added utility, make it scramble the VOIP of mechs within the 180m range of the ECM range and interfere with night and heat vision systems. Maybe even intermittent HUD scrambling depending on distance to the mech.

Or rename the device and stop calling it Guardian ECM in game. I'm going to laugh if when the 90m range is implemented, we get MORE ECM instead of less.

Quote

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^[2] The Terran Hegemony built the Guardian for fear that their own Beagle Active Probe, constructed as a counter to ECM suites in use at the time, might fall into the hands of the other Great Houses and be used against them.^[3]
The suite itself consists of a dedicated countermeasures computer tied to electromagnetic sensors positioned around the operating unit. When these sensors detect an electromagnetic wave within range, such as that given off by an active radar, this data is sent to the computer which identifies the threat, adapts to it, and fires a focused electromagnetic pulse at the source. This intense burst of EM radiation can confuse and misdirect the sensor or even force the entire targeting system to reboot.^[3]
Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.^[4] Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.^[5]
The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.^[2]

[Lugh]

Khobai, on 09 September 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

Yes. SRMs are capable of homing in on artemis in tabletop. So they obviously have some kindve primitive guidance system.

Its MRMs and Rockets that are dumbfire in tabletop. And yeah dead fire SRMs...



This. They need to increase damage per missile to 2.5-3.0 for IS SRMs.

Clan SRMs are quite good compared to their IS counterparts, and probably fine at 2.0 damage per missile. The main reason Clan SRMs arnt used is because clan lasers are way overpowered and its the clan lasers that need to be nerfed to make Clan SRMs more appealing. Clan lasers need to be nerfed to the point where Clan SRMs are undeniably better within 270m.

Really? the numbers have them at undeniably worse within 270m at 2.0 compared to 2.15 for the IS (who is already better at close range brawling with lasers running cooler and firing more frequently).

The IS doesn't need even more advantage in the close range game.

[Khobai]

Quote

C'mon...the easiest (and truest to lore) solution is to make the equipment work like in TT. (G)ECM should just do what it's supposed to in TT. I guess PGI is too lazy to implement the other, future ECM systems down the road so they just leave it as the current status quo.

I agree ECM should not give stealth (or very limited stealth at most)

But indirect LRMs would definitely be a problem if you nerfed ECM stealth. So you have to nerf stealth and rebalance indirect LRMs around stealth getting nerfed. Thats the only way to properly fix it.

Quote

Really? the numbers have them at undeniably worse within 270m at 2.0 compared to 2.15 for the IS (who is already better at close range brawling with lasers running cooler and firing more frequently).

The IS doesn't need even more advantage in the close range game.

Clan SRMs weigh half as much as IS SRMs. They should be worse.

It wouldnt be fair for Clan SRMs to be as good as IS SRMs on top of weighing half as much.

And IS should have an advantage in the close range game because Clan has an advantage in the long-range game. Its called asymmetrical balance. Without a close range advantage IS would have no chance against Clans at all.

Biased towards Clans much?

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Lugh, on 09 September 2015 - 10:35 AM, said:

Really? the numbers have them at undeniably worse within 270m at 2.0 compared to 2.15 for the IS (who is already better at close range brawling with lasers running cooler and firing more frequently).

The IS doesn't need even more advantage in the close range game.

cSPL is the best brawling weapon in the game.

[STEF_]

Sarlic, on 09 September 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

All mechs were slower, as just the general gameplay.

^^^ THIS !!!^^^
1000 times this.

I don't know all of you, but IMO too many times the Benny Hill music fits perfectly as soundtrack during the drops.
It's too silly to watch medium going 100kph+, heavies at 90kph and even more.

What do you think about removing speed tweak?

Less idiotic nascar, more value to position.

[mogs01gt]

Without effective missile based weapons and mechs, this game becomes rather dull.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Stefka Kerensky, on 09 September 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

^^^ THIS !!!^^^
1000 times this.
I don't know all of you, but IMO too many times the Benny Hill music fits perfectly as soundtrack during the drops.
It's too silly to watch medium going 100kph+, heavies at 90kph and even more.
What do you think about removing speed tweak?
Less idiotic nascar, more value to position.

Removing, or at least toning it down to 5% or something.
IMHO the skills are all too good, the gap between unbasiced and elited mech is not a gap, it's a gaping hole. They all should be toned down.
Grind would be less painful, and eliting (read: buying and basicing two other chassis) could become more of an option, at least to casuals.

--------------
cSRMS are not bad for their tonnage. The fact that you can fit 4x cSrm6+artemis on a 30ton Kitfox says something.

--------------
This game should have some well-thought penalties to boating, this would allow weapons to be balanced properly, and LRMs could get buffed without making them overkill (on low skill levels).
An example: shooting too much LRMs in a close time window could get your sensors/communication disrupted by the dense smoke and heat from all those propulsion systems, giving a 'low signal' effect and making you loose locks. You would have to wait or relocate to be able to get locks again.

Thus - buffed and effective LRMs would be a valid option, but there wouldn't be sense in taking too many of them. This leaves place for backup weapons.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 09 September 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

What do you think about removing speed tweak?

i like the idea of mechs having different skill trees based on their roles

some mechs that are scouts/harassers/flankers would still get speed tweak in their skill trees