59 replies to this topic

[Schnuffs]

Changed the topic from a question to a full blow petition. We need them.......want them....close enough.

Soooo when the clans invade can we get them? ....please :3

Battle armor FTW c'mon .

Edit: OK ppl I have read the topic up and down and am luving how most want elementals.

But let me remind you that this is a petition to have Elementals put in the game EVENTUALLY. I am not expecting anything like this anytime soon after the game release.

(IMO) I am sure many things will be put in-game eventually such as tanks, LAV's, MRL trucks, even scout copters, but I am also more than certain the first year at least will only have 'Mechs.

This petition is just to make sure Elementals get put in, whether it's a year or even 5 years after the release, it doesn't matter just so long as they get put in.

Edited by Schnuffs, 03 December 2011 - 03:18 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Mech's only ATM

[Kudzu]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 01 December 2011 - 11:25 PM, said:

Mech's only ATM

Clans, and thus the first BA, are still 20+ months away at this point. Plenty of time to do them justice.

I'd love to see a point (5) of Elementals be under the control of one player (still 1st person view/control, but the other 4 tag along and can be given orders. The player's POV can be moved within the point as casualties occur, making up for their individual weakness with multiple "lives"), and actually able to swarm, leg attack, ride on friendly Omni's.

[Epitaph]

I agree, carrying a bunch of your Elemental pals into battle on your mech would be awesome.

But even as just AI controlled enemies, I'd like to see them pull out their bag of tricks with swarming etc like Kudzu said. I've always been disappointed how battle armor was treated in the previous games, where they were basically just tiny mechs .

[Mattiator]

I'd say wait at least a year into open play before they start bringing in stuff other than 'Mechs. Get the core game down to a T before adding extraneous stuff like this.

[Hayden]

Mattiator, on 02 December 2011 - 01:52 AM, said:

I'd say wait at least a year into open play before they start bringing in stuff other than 'Mechs. Get the core game down to a T before adding extraneous stuff like this.

Even then, I'm tempted to say leave players as 'mechs only.

[VYCanis]

Kudzu, on 01 December 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

Clans, and thus the first BA, are still 20+ months away at this point. Plenty of time to do them justice.

I'd love to see a point (5) of Elementals be under the control of one player (still 1st person view/control, but the other 4 tag along and can be given orders. The player's POV can be moved within the point as casualties occur, making up for their individual weakness with multiple "lives"), and actually able to swarm, leg attack, ride on friendly Omni's.

are you me good sir? took the words right out of my mouth.

I like playing as BA in MWLL, i just dislike how individually nasty they can be sometimes individually due to each one acting like a compressed abstraction for an entire BA squad when i'm fighting them. Meanwhile when i'm playing them I dislike how easy it is to get popped like a zit.

Being the leader of your own AI squad solves that problem by keeping them individually relatively weak, but strong by numbers, and allows you a little bit of leeway if you happen to get popped, by giving you a few backup lives by virtue of switching POV to other squad members.

Fun thing about having elementals/battlearmor that most people don't really consider...
in their own particular way, they act as a subtle counter to mechs that get a little too boaty. Sure, that LRM/gauss/super hot running laser sauna of a mech may be super useful is laying down the hurt on big slow targets. But because it skimped out on smaller point defense type weapons, or weapons that don't heat it up nigtmare fast, it will have a rough time dealing with BA.

Of course there are certain boat loadouts that will tear through small targets and fast movers like a hot knife through butter, but they don't tend to be the most efficient loadouts, usually leading to lots of wasted ammo or being impractical for mech on mech combat.


so in their own way, having BA encourages balanced loadouts.



Controlwise, i think an AI squad could work along the lines of simple orders. attack this, follow me, disengage, defend here, otherwise they would act along the lines of monkey see monkey do and follow your actions.

The main problem i can see is how to manage their relatively limited resources, as they don't really have much ammo or armor, and the potential attrition rate for taking down a single target could leave your squad too decimated to do much of anything else. This could be sorta alleviated maybe by allowing squads to restock on friendly omnimechs. Letting them slowly repair a bit and recharge/reload while attached. (assume that if an omnimech can act like a giant battle taxi, it might have some spare parts and stuff for BA squads to make use of in cubby holes) For IS regular non-omnis, having BA taxi support could be something you can add to your mech if you feel so inclined.

and assuming a single squad member survives, they can pick up reinforcements if they make it back to base.

Edited by VYCanis, 02 December 2011 - 08:43 AM.

[Kudzu]

VYCanis, on 02 December 2011 - 08:39 AM, said:

are you me good sir? took the words right out of my mouth.

With as much as we disagree elsewhere we would make for an interesting case of multiple personalities.

Quote

I like playing as BA in MWLL, i just dislike how individually nasty they can be sometimes individually due to each one acting like a compressed abstraction for an entire BA squad when i'm fighting them. Meanwhile when i'm playing them I dislike how easy it is to get popped like a zit.

And the sad thing is that MWLL is the closest anyone has come to getting them right.

Quote

Fun thing about having elementals/battlearmor that most people don't really consider...
in their own particular way, they act as a subtle counter to mechs that get a little too boaty. Sure, that LRM/gauss/super hot running laser sauna of a mech may be super useful is laying down the hurt on big slow targets. But because it skimped out on smaller point defense type weapons, or weapons that don't heat it up nigtmare fast, it will have a rough time dealing with BA.

Of course there are certain boat loadouts that will tear through small targets and fast movers like a hot knife through butter, but they don't tend to be the most efficient loadouts, usually leading to lots of wasted ammo or being impractical for mech on mech combat.

so in their own way, having BA encourages balanced loadouts.

That's actually a really good point that I didn't consider. It also helps to discourage the "alpha strike all the time every time" playstyle-- if you unload everything into one of them the other four members are going to use your recycle/cooldown time to get in and start doing nasty things.

Quote

Controlwise, i think an AI squad could work along the lines of simple orders. attack this, follow me, disengage, defend here, otherwise they would act along the lines of monkey see monkey do and follow your actions.

If they let players pilot an Elemental I'd like a pure monkey-see monkey do system, the point always sticks together . If Ele's end up being a purchasable AI controlled upgrade then an order system would be the way to go (load/unload, attack here, defend here).

Quote

The main problem i can see is how to manage their relatively limited resources, as they don't really have much ammo or armor, and the potential attrition rate for taking down a single target could leave your squad too decimated to do much of anything else. This could be sorta alleviated maybe by allowing squads to restock on friendly omnimechs. Letting them slowly repair a bit and recharge/reload while attached. (assume that if an omnimech can act like a giant battle taxi, it might have some spare parts and stuff for BA squads to make use of in cubby holes) For IS regular non-omnis, having BA taxi support could be something you can add to your mech if you feel so inclined.

and assuming a single squad member survives, they can pick up reinforcements if they make it back to base.

That's why I want to see them finally get their leg and swarm attacks-- it's really their best feature. Leg attacks should keep the auto-crit chance from the TT, swarming should be hard to pull off but, if successful, hard to dislodge. Their main weapons (small lasers/flamers/MG's) and SRM's should be used more for sniping as they close the range and to finish off mechs damaged by team mates rather than as their main source of damage.

If an Ele player can use terrain and their small size to get in close (or hitch a ride on a friendly omni!) then they should be something to be feared. Make them a high risk/high reward/low BV (assuming it's used, players jumping in as Elemental points could help balance the Clans numbers disadvantage) unit. Being a good Elemental pilot should be considered a mark of skill as you've mastered a unit with a harsh learning curve.

[VYCanis]

if they get swarm attacks, there should be some means of getting them off.

assuming melee gets somehow included by the time clans show up, mechs with arms might be able to try slapping them off.
Maybe crunch into buildings and cliff faces.

If all else fails, stop drop and roll.

[Kudzu]

VYCanis, on 02 December 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

if they get swarm attacks, there should be some means of getting them off.

assuming melee gets somehow included by the time clans show up, mechs with arms might be able to try slapping them off.
Maybe crunch into buildings and cliff faces.

If all else fails, stop drop and roll.

Oh certainly, even if it's nothing more than a button that when pressed and held gives you a increasing percent chance to shake them off while disallowing any firing. But like I said, hard to pull off and hard to remove.

Swarm attacks are huge in the fluff and really iconic, but in the TT it's far too easy to dislodge swarming BA making it a very rarely used attack outside of shutdown/knocked out pilots and assaulting vees. The closest thing any of the MW games have had is the cockpit hacking of MWLL, and even it feels wrong.

[CoffiNail]

EHM THAT is MechAssault for cockpit hacking NOT MWLL

[Kudzu]

CoffiNail, on 02 December 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

EHM THAT is MechAssault for cockpit hacking NOT MWLL

My fault, complete brain ****.

edit: seriously, passing gas is censored?

Edited by Kudzu, 02 December 2011 - 04:03 PM.

[VYCanis]

hmm. maybe BAs swarming could actually be sorta physics based.

in so far as the grip point between the mech and the claw is sort of a magnetic ball socket type joint in regards to how the the physics engine perceives and animates it. So that if a mech is spinning in place and doing crazy maneuvers to get those guys off him, other people might see the BA swinging and bouncing around the pivot point of the claw grip dynamically, as they hold on, Enough force though can break the grip.

So mech players are actively encouraged to spaz out in a panic when they hear the clang clang clang on their exteriors

Edited by VYCanis, 02 December 2011 - 05:04 PM.

[Rhinehart]

Load up the LBXs...

Let the Toadsquashing begin!

[Nik Van Rhijn]

If the Clan's should be allowed their toads then the IS should be allowed their vehicles and infantry.

[Schnuffs]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 02 December 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

If the Clan's should be allowed their toads then the IS should be allowed their vehicles and infantry.

Who knows maybe in time (a long time) they will be in-game.

[hoax]

I definitely want to see some Elementals. I'm excited about having a sort of WoW type "event" in the online world were the Clans invade and change the dynamic of the multiplayer action.

[Kudzu]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 02 December 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

If the Clan's should be allowed their toads then the IS should be allowed their vehicles and infantry.

I hope to see vees in at some point but unarmored infantry might not make it. Usually showing people getting killed bumps the age ratings up to at least teen, where as showing suits of armor being destroyed doesn't.

[Halfinax]

Eventually I want to see full combined arms, but I want the 'Mech gameplay and balance first and fore most. The other stuff can wait until the devs are ready to implement it correctly. Don't fall into the trap other simulations have where they worry too much about all the nit picky things the vocal part of the community want before the core mechanics are finished (looking at Il-2: Cliffs of Dover). Prioritize the games core mechanics over the detail and extraneous stuff please.

[KitLightning]

Voted yes cause there is nothing more rewarding than playing BA in MWLL ;D