772 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Khobai, on 11 September 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

IS mechs wont have a chance if this patch goes live lol

Sure they will.

Just not against Clantech.

Which, honestly is as it should be. Clan 'Mechs should be considered as "punching above their weight" and the matchmaker should take that into account- so that superior Clan 'Mech is facing off against something bigger and meaner than a simple 1:1 tonnage parity deal. Or even a numerically superior opponent.

Individually, a Clan 'Mech should outperform something of identical non-Clan weight. On the other hand, matchmakers shouldn't be matching by weight, they should be matching by performance and that Clanner should either be facing more opponents or bigger ones than he is.

cSand, on 11 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Well regardless of all the sky is falling crowds, I guess this is why it's a test server

So it can be tested

I thought it was so anyone playing on it would get all testy, angst-ridden, and trollish.

[Kiiyor]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Be afraid, be very afraid. It's basically the result of dividing by zero.

I just don't think people appreciate how much poor mechs relied on decent weapon quirks. Structure is OK, but is an extremely poor substitute for being able to actually kill things.

Take my Awesomes. They get an extra half to a third of a decent Clan alpha strike in internal structure. That's borderline irrelevant. I never did well in my Awesomes due to their detection ability, and their mobility was second fiddle to those lovely laser duration and heat reduction quirks, which allowed me to leverage people ignoring me so I could dish out the hurt.

...AARGH, I need to stop postulating and leaping to conclusions, and start testing. Maybe these sensor and mobility quirks will be ok.

[James Wirth]

Castle Actual, on 11 September 2015 - 05:32 PM, said:

Are we STILL trying to balance Clan tech and IS to the same power level? Institute a BV system and make drop decks based on that and stop using the lore as a butt wipe. We play this game because it's a BATTLETECH game not some random stompy bot game like Hawken or Armored Core or something that has no rich universe behind it. Clans are supposed to be OP compared to inner sphere mechs and certain mechs are supposed to be better than others. Embrace it and figure out ways to account for that power in the way the matches and/or drop decks are structured.

^^^THIS^^^

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

So they have removed quirks to add quirks. Seems logical. Didnt they say quirks gonna get removed?

[FupDup]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 11 September 2015 - 06:11 PM, said:

So they have removed quirks to add quirks. Seems logical. Didnt they say quirks gonna get removed?

Their specific choices of removals and additions were bad, and they deserve to feel bad.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Cool. The rebalance is going to consider information warfare as 1 of 4 priorities.

I do not expect it to be perfect, even after months.

I do expect the fotm crowd to complain a lot.

I do expect we'll have to adapt to the changes, some of which sound cool.

[Chef Kerensky]

cSand, on 11 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Well regardless of all the sky is falling crowds, I guess this is why it's a test server

So it can be tested

Good thing it's going live on the actual game servers on the 22nd, before any feedback can be collected or changes can be made.

[James Wirth]

ilKhan Judge Dreddrensky, on 11 September 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Ocelot: You're pretty stupid

Really? We will see who is stupid in a couple of months then when the nerf hammer falls yet again on Clan tech, Almighty Ilkhan.

Edited by MechWarrior James, 11 September 2015 - 06:24 PM.

[beerandasmoke]

Chef Kerensky, on 11 September 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

Good thing it's going live on the actual game servers on the 22nd, before any feedback can be collected or changes can be made.

Its being pushed back into October.

[Chef Kerensky]

MechWarrior James, on 11 September 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Really? We'll see in a couple of months then when the nerf hammer falls yet again on Clan tech, Almighty Ilkhan.

It won't matter because they'll never actually touch any of the weapons, which have been the source of the problem since the very beginning.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

Their specific choices of removals and additions were bad, and they deserve to feel bad.

I thought the new balance wont include quirks, ITs deeper, by changing mech geometry(like hitboxes and size) and even changing how weapons or heat currently works.

All they did now is to change the quirks to absurd numbers. Infowar quirks are nice and so, but no one will choose a mech because of that.

Not that i have faith into pgi anymore, but this is really shocking. Ok some might say its a pts but jesus, how broken are the numbers?! you should be ashamed to go public with those quirk numbers.

[wanderer]

Chef Kerensky, on 11 September 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

It won't matter because they'll never actually touch any of the weapons, which have been the source of the problem since the very beginning.

Or they'll touch them so hard, with nigh unto the proverbial "bad touch" that the meta will be altered in the form of "whatever survives the nerf shall be the new meta". At least, that's how it's happened historically.

[James Wirth]

Quote

It's not a good question. It's the question of a moron.

Name calling and personal attacks is unbecoming of a Jade Falcon. Or maybe it is not.

[Chef Kerensky]

beerandasmoke, on 11 September 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Its being pushed back into October.

Just in time for me to play Brigador instead.

[MischiefSC]

Coordinator Aigis Kurita, on 11 September 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

The quirk changes in the screenshot don't change anything about which weapons will still be best for it.

Meanwhile, in PTS clanner space:

Doin' it wrong. With the heat quirks largely gone, go ahead and throw the Gauss in the arm and put all the laser omnipods on for 6xCERML and 1x Gauss. On PTS it's heat efficient and while not optimized for long range CW is like the raised middle finger of God in pugging on the PTS.

Or just 2LPLs and 4xCERMLs. You don't even need to go gauss. With everything getting durability quirks your rate of return on ammo-driven weapons is lower.

LAZOR UP!

[James Wirth]

beerandasmoke, on 11 September 2015 - 05:45 PM, said:

You do realize that when the data comes in showing that clans are stomping 90% of the time like in postclan prequirk era hes going to take that nerfbat and beat clanmechs with it. How about some massive duration and cooldown nerfs for clanweapons? Do you think you would like that? This coming from a clan "loyalist" who has bought every clan pack. This balance pass is no good for anyone.

Aff, just like the previous Timber Wolf and Stormcrow nerfs.

[DjPush]

Spent a couple of hours on the PTS. The most notable thing is the Yaw rate on some of the mechs..

Gargoyle Prime(I) has a +1000% yaw speed increase.
The Direwolf can barely twist without me having to move my mouse clear across my desk (same with the EBJ)

Some of the mechs torso ranges have been nearly cut in half.

How this helps you guys! Keep it up!

[MischiefSC]

In this thread we already see why in actual tabletop BT everyone really hated the Clan diehards. Clans were balanced for PvE, not PvP. Nobody ever took IS vs Clan seriously on TT for PvP. It was never balanced, ever. Use the magical Google and look at forums from 7-12 years ago when Battletech Tournaments were still a thing. It was always Clan players trying to justify having stupidly OP and unbalanced gear while playing against people to run suicide redshirts against them so they could be guaranteed a win and pretend it was them being good and not just utterly broken.

IS vs Clans worked as PvE. The GM would run the opposite side and use magic plot armor and artificial balancing to keep games fun and challenging. The Lore in no way, shape or form will ever work in that regard for a FPS PvP game. It's like saying you want a game where one group of players is playing members of the pre-Clone Wars Jedi Council and the other team is all supposed to play scrub tier battle-droids. 'No, that's fair and balanced, there's so many of you!' Everyone will want to play the Jedi and you'll never get the huge number of players willing to repeatedly play the battledroids being slaughtered in the hopes of scoring a lucky shot.

That's never going to happen, should never happen and fortunately PGI has said it will never happen, because it's an idea that is not just bad but is embarrassing to see people suggest.

[Misaniovent]

MechWarrior James, on 11 September 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

"I paid a lot of money and if you nerf the things I paid for, I will be very unhappy. Also, I like to RP on forums."

This is a troll, right? I'm of the opinion that Clan mechs never should have been added to the game, but what's done is done.

Back on topic: I don't understand how removing these quirks can be done without revisiting weapon balance and, more specifically, ghost heat. Stock Awesomes are already penalized by ghost heat. Removing their heat-related quirks is going to make a bad mech terrible.

Edited by Misaniovent, 11 September 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[Chef Kerensky]

wanderer, on 11 September 2015 - 06:22 PM, said:

Or they'll touch them so hard, with nigh unto the proverbial "bad touch" that the meta will be altered in the form of "whatever survives the nerf shall be the new meta". At least, that's how it's happened historically.

I would be 100% for autocannons actually being decent enough to stand on the same level as lasers and gauss rifles, but I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

MechWarrior James, on 11 September 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

Aff, just like the previous Timber Wolf and Stormcrow nerfs.

The ones they reduced after 2 weeks and will be removing from the game entirely following this patch?

Edited by Chef Kerensky, 11 September 2015 - 06:41 PM.