772 replies to this topic

[Inflatable Fish]

wanderer, on 11 September 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

Yes, it is. Clantech should never have been "balanced" 1:1 with IS 'Mechs to begin with. From the ground up, Clan 'Mechs in TT were meant to be superior.

Short of turning them into Inner Sphere designs with fancy new skins, you'll never properly balance them that way short of destroying them entirely. Clan 'Mechs should be considered worth more for purposes of the matchmaker or CW than their raw weight and the game adjusted accordingly.

I see you know your bit of BattleTech.

but tell me, have you heard of a game called MechWarrior Online? it's a real-time aim-based shooter game with stompy mechs with two factions, one of which has vastly superior weaponry and survivability. we're talking about that game here.

[Spare Parts Bin]

The longer I play this game the more it changes. It is hard keeping a handle on the game now.

I would like see Clans fight in units of 5 and would like to see more reliance on TT for flavor. MWO is not TT.

I do no believe this game needs another massive overhaul. In game now we have 2-3 Locust,Firestarter,Raven pilots killing Atlai and Direwolves.
This is my $.02, Knowledge is Ammunition.

[Wywern]

R.I.P Locust 1V, I spent millions on you, and now you will only be able to use a bad laser or machine guns. How cruel can the fate of a mech be? ;_;

[ShinobiHunter]

Wywern, don't get too worked up yet. This round was not representative of the final release. At least according to PGI.

[rook]

For information warfare to be useful in this game, it has to more directly affect the ability to kill another mech. If not, it will just be considered useless and everyone will work around it (who needs the paperdoll argument). My only loosely hashed idea would be to have targeting information affect convergence.

Suppose mechs without a target always converged to the same point, no matter what they were pointed at (be that 300m, infinity, or whatever); and, weapons always converged at the distance a targeted enemy was at. Then, maybe, targeting would matter more.

To add to that, I would wildly vary the sensor range of each mech based on some role. Maybe scout mechs have 1000m or even 1500m sensor ranges, and assaults have only 300m. Give some mechs inherent seismic (and get rid of the module). Even give some mechs ground penetrating radar, ie - let them get targets that are not in LoS, but limit the rage. A good "support" medium might have a large sensor range (1200m) and 200m of ground penetrating radar.

To throw in more information warfare, let some mechs do radar spoofing. Imagine if a single scout mech got behind your murder ball, you check your radar and it shows 5 mehcs. You turn around, only to find a single commando, and then the enemy pushes your back. Information warfare.

Allow some mech to make an enemy to show up as neutral or enemy on his ally's radar. Allow a mech to show up as something else on the information screen, that's a jenner but it shows cataphract on the paperdoll.

Teams with good communication over voip would be able to counter some/most of these thing, but that would be as it should be.

This would require an adjustment to the way ECM and BAP worked, but we could just limit them to just effecting lock on weapons.

[mad kat]

Fantastic. Now how about you resolve the ******* hit reg issues first ffs. Stop running before you can walk, must of said this a thousand times allready. How about you make ppc's actually do damage first. Ac20's and gauss rifle rounds not fly straight through an enemy as if they weren't there.

/.End rant.

One thing that certainly needs changing is removing the benefits to snipe warrior online.

Edited by mad kat, 15 September 2015 - 07:07 AM.

[skorpionet]

Hi,

I don't understand if "rebalance" are only different quirks or .....???

Best Regards

[Prophetic]

CapperDeluxe, on 11 September 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

But that is exactly why they must take away those feats, it ends up pushing those mechs to only using those weapons they are quirked for. It means if you don't take that Gauss on that GridIron, or SRM on that Huggin you are doing it wrong. That is not acceptable in a game that is all about customization.

It'd be like if I couldn't get my burger at McDonald's (or somewhere that actually has good burgers, just for arguments sake) without ketchup. I hate ketchup on burgers. I shouldn't get a crappier burger just because I don't want ketchup.

How is no quirks better for weapon diversity when everyone just starts running PPC and Gauss on every mech regardless?
Trash will always be trash but with quirks we had a chance to see less desirable mechs made relevant.

All this does is put us back to square one and the old days. RIP IS in CW.

If we want no quirks then just give us 10v12 and let everyone play to their full potential.
I'm not looking to go back to square one unless the above mention is the plan.

[Ens]

And suddenly all the "bad" mechs, that shined after the quirkening will go extinct again...

[SpeCtaCular]

Khobai, on 11 September 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

IS mechs wont have a chance if this patch goes live lol

if this patch goes live I suspect a lot of people will outright quit the game. its that bad.

You read my mind. If this goes live im 100 % sure im going to just move on to other games.
I really hope this is not true though. Since if it is i just... Don't know what the developers are thinking.
Maybe they are going to make IS to fight with spears and stones.

[Voivode]

These quirks don't look promising. I'm not sure about the buffs to mechs that were already considered top tier and nerfs to mechs that are considered poor performers. You nerfed the Summoner? For reals?

[KT4]

I'm pretty new to MechWarrior Online, like I've been playing 2 months. And, not that regularly, either.
I personally think quirks ought to be removed. Clan tech is better. It's always been better. Their mechs are stronger, with higher heat dissipation, and more powerful weapons. Clan mechs should be better ALWAYS.

If you want to make Community Warfare (CW) more fair:

• 8 clans vs 12 IS
  
• encourage people to use Voice Chat
  
• If the mech is in line of sight, you get instant target info. Instant LRM lock. Instant SSRM lock. You still have to press r, but, then, boom! instant access or as i like to say, "instacess"
  
• ECM - broken by line of sight. As long as one person has eyes on an ECM mech, that mech can be hit is LRMs (again, LRM boats can get instant locks)

Public will always be unbalanced in one shape or another. But, if you really want to focus on community warfare (which is the best reason to play MWO) then, remove quirks, make everything level, and let pilots test how good they really are.

[KT4]

SpeCtaCular, on 15 September 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

You read my mind. If this goes live im 100 % sure im going to just move on to other games.
I really hope this is not true though. Since if it is i just... Don't know what the developers are thinking.
Maybe they are going to make IS to fight with spears and stones.

nah, the IS has the ability to change engines. They'll just put the largest XLs in lights, and light rush and destroy. The IS may actually be more fun and challenging to play.

[SpeCtaCular]

The truth is both sides should be equal Clan should not be more powerful, IS should not be more powerful. Equal.
This is a game and if both sides can't enjoy the game, eventually one side will lose players and then the game starts to die even more than it is doing now.

The fact is this game needs the balance between IS & Clan tech before anything else. Then go fix or change other stuff if needed.

[Cherry Garden full of Blue Roses]

Bring back 8 vs 8 matches (why? Hmm... Can you imagine this: you got scout. You meet (of course good player never do such a mistake!) whole enemy team. 12 guys. They made one, big ALPHA BANG into your CT. You can start a new match with next scout. Even 100T assault die very fast against 12 guys, so). The 8 vs 8 matches require another way of thinking, but they are not easier. I really, really, really miss them.

Add more points of armor at IS mechs. Such more that exchanging fire between IS and Clan mechs with the same tonnage will be finishing randomly - once win IS mech, second - clan mech. Just the better pilot wins, but the weaker also have his chance.

Leave the rest of your great ideas (ok, I'm joking now; you have sometimes really good ideas ;-) ).

Enjoy the game.

P.S. Or 8 vs 8 for pugs and 12 vs 12 for premade groups and CW...
P.P.S And listen (read) what Coe7 and Gut wrote, please. They think soberly... Ofc there is more players like this two

Edited by Patricius, 15 September 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Mystere]

rook, on 15 September 2015 - 06:16 AM, said:

For information warfare to be useful in this game, it has to more directly affect the ability to kill another mech. If not, it will just be considered useless and everyone will work around it (who needs the paperdoll argument). My only loosely hashed idea would be to have targeting information affect convergence.

Suppose mechs without a target always converged to the same point, no matter what they were pointed at (be that 300m, infinity, or whatever); and, weapons always converged at the distance a targeted enemy was at. Then, maybe, targeting would matter more.

That is already being talked about here.

[phatbhuda]

I've seen this brought up multiple times: "I spent cash on this mech because of the quirks and now you've changed it."

The response I've been seeing is: "well quirks need to change and that's that."

That isn't the point.

If I go to the store and buy a hat, the store can't come in to my house and change the hat's color and style.

Other software companies realize this.

Here's a direct comparison: Wargaming.net. When they make a change to a "Premium Tank" in World of Tanks (which means a tank you can purchase with cash), they open a time window in which you are allowed to sell back that tank for a full refund of in game currency (Gold in this case).

Why can't MechWarrior Online and PGI do the same? When you guys change a mech's quirks or otherwise modify it, you should allow anyone who owns one to return it for a full refund of the currency with which you spent to obtain it. You should already have purchase records (please tell me you maintain mech purchase records) so it should be easy to do for all mechs. If for some reason you don't maintain full transaction records, then at least for the mechs that cost MC and real world currency.

This seems perfectly reasonable.

If you're going to say you're not in beta anymore, this is the sort of customer service you really should offer.

[phatbhuda]

Patricius, on 15 September 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Bring back 8 vs 8 matches (why? Hmm... Can you imagine this: you got scout. You meet (of course good player never do such a mistake!) whole enemy team. 12 guys. They made one, big ALPHA BANG into your CT. You can start a new match with next scout. Even 100T assault die very fast against 12 guys, so). The 8 vs 8 matches require another way of thinking, but they are not easier. I really, really, really miss them.

Add more points of armor at IS mechs. Such more that exchanging fire between IS and Clan mechs with the same tonnage will be finishing randomly - once win IS mech, second - clan mech. Just the better pilot wins, but the weaker also have his chance.

Leave the rest of your great ideas (ok, I'm joking now; you have sometimes really good ideas ;-) ).

Enjoy the game.

P.S. Or 8 vs 8 for pugs and 12 vs 12 for premade groups and CW...
P.P.S And listen (read) what Coe7 and Gut wrote, please. They think soberly... Ofc there is more players like this two

What light scout mech can take an Alpha to the CT from 8 enemy mechs? If you're argument for 8v8 matches is that the alpha from 12 mechs is too much how can the alpha from 8 mechs be that much different?

[no one]

Mystere, on 15 September 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

That is already being talked about here.

Yeah that idea's been around since open beta, and it's been ignored since open beta, sadly.

KT4, on 15 September 2015 - 09:34 AM, said:

nah, the IS has the ability to change engines.

The IIC 'Mechs will be non-omnis, so I'm fairly sure that no longer applies.

SpeCtaCular, on 15 September 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

The truth is both sides should be equal Clan should not be more powerful, IS should not be more powerful. Equal.

The truth is you can make two things equal without homogenizing them into the same thing, and should do so wherever possible. Would you play this game if every 'Mech was an Atlas?

Counterbalancing overpowered tech with superior numbers would be one way, and it really would make MWO combat more interesting. The only difficulty would be that you'd have to divide all matches into IS vs IS, Clan vs Clan and Is vs Clan battles. That might make match making a tiny bit harder, but it can't be worse than letting your player-base slip away because you insist on pretending that obviously unbalanced playing conditions are fair, or make everything completely fair but utterly uninteresting.

Prime example of homogenization making for bad balancing? Pulse lasers. You could have kept them shorter ranged than normal lasers with a mechanic to make them interesting and different, but just as useful as their standard counterparts; letting them switch on and off like machine guns would do it. They could have been heavy, short and hot but great for knife-fighting. Instead they end up being slightly shorter duration normal lasers after accounting for weight of heatsinks. They only matter in the context of high - alpha laser vomit and while some may disagree with me here, they are BORING.

Just to pre-empt 'that guy', I'm not a clan player. I CW all over for 'Mechbay, and I usually I play a locust because it's funny.

Edited by no one, 15 September 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[Mystere]

no one, on 15 September 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Yeah that idea's been around since open beta, and it's been ignored since open beta, sadly.

Oh! I must have missed that one.

In any case, it looks like it's attracted attention from the right people.