772 replies to this topic

[Lansdorf]

Kay Wolf, on 12 July 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Lansdorf, they can't do BattleTech lore due to the limitations of the game engine; not that they would stick with BattleTech lore, anyway, as there's not a scrupulous bone in any of their bodies for retention of said lore. They COULD make this game all manner of fun AND be able to stick with the lore, but that is not in the cards. They COULD have made SO MUCH MONEY had they stuck with the lore, but they decided to believe the hype of F2P games, number one that it's called F2P for a reason, generally because the game is crap, and number two because they believe twitch gamers are more important than lore gamers. So, now, they have screwed themselves solidly out of a potential lifetime fortune.

"The State Department regrets to inform you MWO is dead, because her developers wouldn't listen to the right information."

F2P just really means P2W its why they made clan mechs over powered because its their main revenue stream. Its a real shame they whored themselves in this way.

[Baulven]

Lansdorf, on 12 July 2016 - 07:10 PM, said:

OK so let me see if I get this right.

They make clan mechs over powered, however they don't try and balance the game like they do in the actual Battletech lore.

But instead just let equal number of IS and Clans mechs fight each other in FW.

Clan mechs are over powered because they use a lot fewer of them. The bidding system that the Clans use ensure that they are always outnumbered , usually heavily. That's how the the IS forces are balanced with the Clan forces in Battletech Lore.

What needs to happen is, either, Clans only get 2 reinforcements in invasions in FW, or they can field fewer mechs at a time, 10 maybe?

That's is the only thing you can do to try and keep the game even remotely balanced.

Honestly this is such a critical flaw in the game design its a wonder you still have a job at Piranha, or indeed, Piranha still has the licensing rights to the IP.

Get it right, and stop screwing over Inner Sphere players, just because you guys want to make a quick buck by selling Clan mechs to the min/maxers

You are aware they nerfed clan tech to such a huge degree that this would flat out make it impossible to win invasion mode for clan unless they are dropping against a put skittle group (aka 12 random with little coordination)? If you want the clans to have less they would need to scale back clans to first release and then the tears would flow like no tomorrow.

[Baulven]

Lansdorf, on 12 July 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

F2P just really means P2W its why they made clan mechs over powered because its their main revenue stream. Its a real shame they whored themselves in this way.

As said in tons of threads over 600m clans have an advantage. Between 250 and 600 IS has an advantage. They are roughly equal at knife fight range (sub 250). If you engage with knife fight at your preferred range you lose against knife fight.

[Requiemking]

Baulven, on 17 July 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

As said in tons of threads over 600m clans have an advantage. Between 250 and 600 IS has an advantage. They are roughly equal at knife fight range (sub 250). If you engage with knife fight at your preferred range you lose against knife fight.

And whats worse is that, without fail, every single map in Faction Warfare favours combat at 250-600 meters. While the Clan mechs may dominate some maps in QP (ie Alpine, LRMlands, ect.), the maps themselves screw the Clans over in FW unless you are running a very small number of specific builds with a very coordinated team. Hence why Jade Falcon is the only Clan having any success in FW. Another problem is that the barrier for entry into the Clans is extremely high, as Clan mechs are normally more than double the average price of most IS mechs of the same weight. Now, I know this is because most Clan mechs come with all sorts of fancy upgrades, but come on. What we need is for Clan mech prices to drop, but, since we know that is never going to happen, I suggest instead that every week, a random chassis is selected from both IS and Clan, and all variants of said chassis are half off for the entire week. This helps make it easier to join the Clans, as you can buy the mechs you want at half off and then still have money to upgrade them, as most if not all Clan mechs require upgrades to make them useful.

[stand alone complex]

Looking on clan Marauder i feel sad about my BHII.
Just compare BHII and Marauder II possible builds.

Is it so hard to do what i ask? Or im asking to much?

Maybe my english not good enough and you cant uderstand my idea? - here, i post a picture for you. I ask you one more time - please upgrade energy weapon slot in BHII head. Atleast to fit large laser (PPC will be super greate).

Edited by stand alone complex, 22 August 2016 - 08:37 AM.

[W Ventilator]

Dear PGI,

One of the longest running problems I have noticed in terms of Mechwarrior, both on the table top and in video games is a fair and balanced system of determining the fighting forces, and how they should fair against each other in game.

The Clans have the better tech; the Inner Sphere have numbers, and, despite their lesser tech, and sometimes better pilots, on a case by case basis, what I want to say clearly is the following:

- You can make up a points system
- You can make up quirks
- You can do everything, and indeed, anything, possible, to try and balance something that may never be easily balanced out
- Alpha Strike calculations and what not might help
- Why not use C-Bills, the original, and in game at this time, as a total of how much firepower any given team may field?

Now, I know C-Bills might seem to not work for some; however, what about the fact that if one adds up the value to make something, if a Clan 'Mech costs more in terms of C-Bills, why not field things that are simply costly, when in terms of lore, every C-Bill is the equivalent to $5 USD? I'm not sure of the year, however, it's a pretty good reference point, overall.

What do you say, PGI?

C-Bills exist in game; can they be the balancing act you need?

Just a thought...

[Mi Ro Ki]

A true pack of ******** at PGI. Let's keep giving IS some real low hard points so their faces and side torso's get picked off while they can't shoot back. By the time you get close you're already screwed lmfao, and yes i'm talking about the fantastic cyclops you just gave us. Absolute shite.

Even the damm tournament is fucken clan mechs 101. Fix ya **** or lose it fast back to microsoft (hopefully).

Baulven, on 17 July 2016 - 05:32 AM, said:

As said in tons of threads over 600m clans have an advantage. Between 250 and 600 IS has an advantage. They are roughly equal at knife fight range (sub 250). If you engage with knife fight at your preferred range you lose against knife fight.

That is just utter ******** haha. So you're saying a timber with a 70+ alpha in a 250-600 is a fair knife fight against a IS mech who can barely push 40-50* alpha and runs hotter because he has to put that much firepower into it. You're a joke and so is your knowledge.

[KillStealR]

Balancing the game is a very difficult thing to do IS vs Clan. Considering in lore that the Clans just kick butt harder, because of superior tech from the people the IS kicked out(lol). The Energy Draw system is easy. Instead of giving everybody X amount of energy for all builds. How about assigning Energy Points to engines!? I mean the bigger the engine the more energy you can have on board, and it kind of balances it self out, because the bigger engine is more weight. Obviously more engine weight = less weapons. It would prevent crazy laser boats, and give the bigger slower mechs a reason to be big n slow. To balance the IS vs Clan I believe you have not done a bad job. It can be improved upon greatly still. If you use my engine energy assignment idea you can give IS more energy than their Clan counterparts. While giving the Clans slightly faster reload on their energy bars. Example Atlas with 400xl has a energy store of 60 while Kodiak has a energy store of 50. The flip side is it takes Atlas 1.5 seconds to refill the energy bar, while Kodiak takes 1 second. That way when you have less weapons you have more energy and less potential heat, and it will force the Clans to keep their rate of fire lower to not overheat? I might be full of it for this idea! Let me know what you think Everybody and hopefully PGI! Thank you very much, and please read PGI! I love the game anyways :-)

[Mechsniper]

The problem is clan mechs vs IS mechs should never be 12 v 12. It would be a binary (or) 2 clan stars (10) vs 3 IS lances of 4 mechs each to even things up. Clan mechs are supposed to be loaded to the teeth with weapons, faster weight for wieight and more resilient. The numbers is how the game would be balanced. Also when you allowed pilots to fit a gauss rifle where a machine gun goes (cough gauss cat, cough closed beta, cough cough) you ignored the warnings of 30+ year battletech/mw players that told you this would lead to perpetual imbalance and wreck it good. Just some food for thought.

[MookieDog]

I am about at my wits end. Scouting in MWO is a complete failure versus clan mechs. Three plus Stormcrows is about a 99% win.

When the Jade Falcon mercs own all five IS faction capitals, will Uncle Russ and the rest of the PGI staff finally put down the bong and their third fifth of JD and realize they need crawl over and reset the map.. again..

Battle of Tukayyid PART III: IS cockpit standing item will be a floating rotating map of the Inter Sphere in half Jade Falcon Green and Wolf Brown with "Inter Sphere sucks.. Waa Waa Waa better luck next season".

And since I am going full out.. why not.. Russ.. is -MS-'s chew toy. If Merc Star wants something.. I am sure Uncle Russ is on speed dial and dev's standing by.

Salt on peeps!

Edited by MookieDog, 14 September 2016 - 12:05 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Cbills can never be a balancing mechanic. Don't go there. There are mountains of reasons why, so very many, I'm not going in to them now but that's a profoundly terrible idea.

Assymetric numbers (10v12): sounds great but is harder to balance, not easier. It allows clan mechs to be individually more powerful, but because of how combat works it's not a matter of 1 clan mech = 1.2 IS mechs, it's way more complicated than that.

So for 10v12, we'd have worse overall balance, quick play matchmaking would be significantly worse (matches would have to be clan vs is, clan vs clan, and is vs is, which would put substantial extra limitations on our already overstressed matchmaker.

Just so that the poor sods who elect to go IS basically auto-lose 1v1 vs equally skilled clan pilots.

It's an awesome idea if you don't think to hard about it, but it's totally incompatible with an online arena shooter.

Maybe if MWO was Faction Play through and through with no QP... But that's not the game we have.

[MookieDog]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Just so that the poor sods who elect to go IS basically auto-lose 1v1 vs equally skilled clan pilots.

Yup, just like me walking around a corner in a Marauder-3D and getting sawed in half by a Kodiak-3: Lasted three seconds, no XL. At the head of a formation, three Kodiaks dropped three times their weight in heavy mechs. Before the other nine slaughtered the remaining three mechs. Entire wave was dead in less than three minutes. Wonder why the IS map is mostly Jade Falcon green?

Clans complained about hit boxes and it was fixed in what.. a week..two weeks? Clans used to have issues with heat. When Clans switched to UAC spam and small pulse laser spam, they are now better brawlers than IS. Mind you, the Marauder IIC, isnt out yet. Never mind the Viper, Huntsman, and Night Gyr drop soon. Don't really see the IS having much of a chance left. Just some nostalgia mechs for old times sake.

[Digital_Angel]

Wintersdark, on 14 September 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Maybe if MWO was Faction Play through and through with no QP... But that's not the game we have.

And if QP got dropped, I know several players that would quit playing.

Balance in QP and CW at the same time is difficult. IMHO, Clan vs IS was pretty close to balanced until the IIC mechs and other Clan Battlemechs got introduced. Now you have Clan mechs in the game that get all the advantages of Clan weapons and equipment and Clan XL engines without most of the downsides that come with Omnimechs in this game (fixed engines, fixed equipment, etc). The weaker Clan heatsinks are really the ONLY downside they are left with. And people wonder why waves of Kodiaks are decimating everyone in CW right now.

[KillStealR]

After ghost heat 2.0 drops it will effectively make the kodiak 3 4x uac10 build so hot people will stop running it, or just fire one at a time. I pilot and love my kodiaks, but the 3 with 4x uac10s does eat everything for lunch very quickly. Even piloting my Dire Wolfs you have to be careful, and hope they overheat themselves. I know several players who would stop playing if they did not keep the quickplay feature as well. I do quickplay mostly because waiting for a faction play match is like watching paint dry. It is going to be hard to balance out everything properly to make the game fun for all, and that is very hard because people like me and my cuz who plays wants to see more lore true content come out. I can not wait for ghost heat 2.0 i think it will help in many ways and also hurt because of the flaws of the system. My hat goes off to PGI for the job they have done, and then right after is wave a finger at them for focusing way to much on little things, and not keeping the balance in check.


I am just happy that they are trying new things to keep the game "progressing" if they do not it is going to flop! I love Battletech in any way, shape, or form! (would not want their headache of making everybody happy!)

[Mole]

Lansdorf, on 12 July 2016 - 07:45 PM, said:

F2P just really means P2W its why they made clan mechs over powered because its their main revenue stream. Its a real shame they whored themselves in this way.

Oh really? Excuse me sir, I think you dropped this.

Edited by Mole, 03 October 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[Willothius]

stand alone complex, on 10 July 2016 - 03:52 PM, said:

Hey PGI,
- hate you for Marauder BH weapon slots design.

You give a 75 tonns mech ONE weapon slot in torso.
Maybe it is LORE by the mechwarrior unw. but it is ...

STUPID!!!!!
...
Only 1 extra slot in head for weapon energy area give us more that a dozen of quirks.

I've heard PGI being called stupid for lots of reasons.. but this isn't one of them. Please, stop with this kind of ignorance. Just, stop posting or delete that account, or at the very least STOP IGNORING YOUR OTHER 7E HARDPOINTS!

EDIT: Why the hell did you buy the BH in the first place?? It's not like you couldn't SEE this BEFORE you paid??

Edited by Willothius, 04 October 2016 - 05:28 AM.

[Digital_Angel]

Mole, on 03 October 2016 - 06:48 PM, said:

Oh really? Excuse me sir, I think you dropped this.

Yeah, I could fault PGI on a lot of things, but P2W isn't one of them. There are many Heros that are not even the top variant for their chassis, and even the ones that are are not game breaking compared to the regular variants.

[naterist]

i just finished downloading the pts server, and I'm excited to get in there (once my download finishes) even if I'm extremely late to the party here, however, there is an idea I had that I thought might help to balance mwo more between the two different playstyles and adding balance to IS vs clans that I believe is simpler and much more effective than a quirks system mentioned in the original post (if ive ranted about this in other threads then just skip past, this idea hasn't changed much in the past weeks).

first idea- add pilot deaths as a possible result of overheating. the numbers can be tweaked however the developers think would help the game the most, but it would be interesting. an pilot skill could even be added for the pilot death system like the ability to install an advanced cooling vest skill or module. that's all of idea 1.

idea two is a little bit more radical, but it does/ almost does away with quirks entirely, in favor of a simpler and more comprehensive idea. this idea is that clan and IS weapons should be more than slightly different, like firing pattern shouldn't be all of it. a clan medium laser should not be just a drawn out, hotter, and farther reaching weapon than the IS medium laser (those two are used as examples because they are the standard workhorses of the collective tech trees.) these weapons can be pushed tweaked to fit a unique role that the weapons enemy faction (IS or Clan) cant do with their version of the weapon. this is there too an extent with the lrm and ac firing patterns but in order for this idea to work they need to be further specialized. I'm willing to give further examples if your interested but for now I'm moving on to part two of the 2nd idea.
part 2 is were things go really of the rails here. allow the opposing factions, with limitations of course, to use weapons from other tech trees. in order to avoid seeing a clan loadout banshee or something similar like an IS loadout Kodiak, limit the amount of weapon systems from other tech trees that can be retrofitted onto other tech tree mechs.

the inspiration for these ideas come from the canon battletech books. I will always remember the various parts in the archer christiphori trilogy were he surprises the heck out of his enemies because his penetrator had been outfitted with clen er large lasers in its arms that he had gained from the clan wars. (christiphori is my childhood hero).

those two ideas can be taken seperatly or together or not at all. however I feel like they are quality ideas that both stay true to the battletech lore, and help to further push mwo into an environment were a 12 Kodiak rush isn't nessacarily the only winning move the clans have. if you want to take it a step further, then maybe let people have a "captured" mech from the oppositions tech tree in their dropdecks, but that may be a little over reaching.

comments, criticism? should I forget I ever thought these thoughts and never repeat them again? let me know. my only goal is helping mwo in any way I can.

Edited by naterist, 11 October 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[bar10jim]

Mechsniper, on 04 September 2016 - 08:47 AM, said:

The problem is clan mechs vs IS mechs should never be 12 v 12. It would be a binary (or) 2 clan stars (10) vs 3 IS lances of 4 mechs each to even things up. Clan mechs are supposed to be loaded to the teeth with weapons, faster weight for wieight and more resilient. The numbers is how the game would be balanced. Also when you allowed pilots to fit a gauss rifle where a machine gun goes (cough gauss cat, cough closed beta, cough cough) you ignored the warnings of 30+ year battletech/mw players that told you this would lead to perpetual imbalance and wreck it good. Just some food for thought.

...and balancing for 10 v 12 battles in CW would totally destroy any semblance of balance in QP. That is why it will never happen.

[xHAIRTRIGGERx]

I have to start by saying this rebalance is meaningless with weight limits on end game mech drops i rarely play this game because i like running assault mechs i spent $70.00 on the assault pack from steam that has 1 king crab and 1 direwolf. Now in end game i can only drop 2 assault mechs and then i have to run 2 of the smallest mechs to make the weight limit. This not only means people that run 65 ton mechs can run 4 of the same yagermechs or ebon jaguars they can buy 4 get the mastery much easier then me i have to buy not only my assault mechs but i have to also buy 3 scout mechs to get there mastery aswell. And research completely different modules/pilot skills to put on it, locusts have no use for enhanced gyros and king crabs have no use for sensor range and not only research for two different classes but the cost of the modules themselves which means anybody that wants to run top tier assault mechs has to work two times as hard as somebody running x4 yagermechs or x4 shadowhawks. People complained about how hard it was to kill assault mechs so in nearly every patch they get the nerf bat, assault mechs dont need nerfed players need there skills buffed STOP STANDING TOE TO TOE WITH 100 TON MONSTERS AND COMPLAINING ABOUT GETTING KILLED. Use what you have and assaults dont use your speed get to the flanks despite all the armor nerfs despite all the heat nerfs to assaults the entire time assault mech weapons like lasers do the same damage as a locusts. Assaults are so slow its painful at times by the time you reach the fight it can be over and going one way then turning around and going back to help a different flank is not an option, if people used there heads when they see an assault mech simply go a different way even the largest 75 ton mech is far more maneuverable then a 100 ton assault mech look at other games like world of tanks that have very heavy very slow tanks people don't run an entire team of slow tanks because they can be easily out maneuvered. The same holds true with assault mechs having 4 or 5 on a team is a good thing but anymore then that and you run the risk of being to slow to be combat effective. But as it stands now my favorite mechs are useless in end game content everybody runs the same 4 med or light heavy meta builds it leaves for a very boring end game experience. I don't play much anymore and when i do its a couple pub matches and then i log off. I have 4 king crabs ready for end game but i can only use two i have no desire to play a 20 ton locust i just don't. Trying to force me to play one has forced me to play other games that allow me to have fun and play the way i want to.