772 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Sounds pretty good, but I kind of have to wonder why the JR7-D would be considered as more of a scout than the JR7-F, especially when the JR7-K exists.

Also, when considering that part of this effort is to address major power creep, are weapon modules going to be changed too so that they aren't 100% power creep?

Edited by Pjwned, 11 September 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[hargneux]

Is it sad that the only thing I find impressive about this PTS is that they got the thumbnails regenerating dynamically ?

[Lord Squeezy Fetladral]

How about this for a crazy idea to make info tech relevant and deal with pin point alpha with no lock:
If you have no lock, your weapons don't pin point as well and will drift a little from each other with the effect getting worse the farther you are away from your target. If you want super accurate pinpoint damage at long range, you need a radar lock. Without it, your damage spreads out making it very hard to one shot some one at distance. Then you will really need scout lights to help those heavy/assault maximize their damage over distance. And a light with ecm will be hard to leg because without a lock, your damage spreads too much to one shot a leg.

[Zephiris]

sounds like a good plan, paul... what about manufacturer specific system specs? like an AC20 from manufacturer X shoots more distant than the AC20 from manufacturer Y... or the ECM on the atlas has different characteristics than the one on the raven... that would be nice!

just don't touch my gauss rifle... o_O

Edited by Zephiris, 11 September 2015 - 03:35 PM.

[hargneux]

Seriously though, all the TBR pilots are walking around with massive boners.

I think I me and my wallet my just sit out the unquirkening. MAD or no MAD, this seems like a massive nerf to IS ,

[MischiefSC]

So, current feedback is -

The IW stuff is a bust. Pointless. Paperdoll is largely a crutch and always has been, anyone who's played enough only needs it periodically anyway. In no way, shape or form does it equate to a balancing metric between mechs - more damage = better by a massive margin.

Without weapon quirks IS tech is badly out-matched. Badly. I just face-tanked down a Mauler in a Timber Wolf last match. I haven't died yet, in any match, and I play pretty suicidally. I stop killing people when my mech gets hot, I cool down and go kill them again.

Quirks made dakka and SRMs semi-viable (at least on some mechs). Without those quirks there is no viable IS dakka or SRM builds that are anything above tier 3. *maybe* AC20 King Crab. *Maybe* that's still upper edge of tier 3 or lower tier 2 on the right map.

The PTS just feels.... broken to me I guess. Makes me a bit sad.

[wanderer]

At least now we have a baseline to see how much Clantech really is better, once you sweep the quirks aside.

[Koniks]

This should've started with rebalancing baseline Clan and IS equipment against each other, then balancing chassis and variants.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

????

Rethink what you are doing PGI.

[coe7]

I honestly assumed, that BV would have worked on high hardpoint vs low hardpoint stuff and balanced weapon values. This game revolves around hardpoint locations, weapon values and mobility(mobility decides available tonnage). Everything else in unimportant.

Any mech with primary high hardpoint layout would have gotten a 25% HP nerf.

Any mech with primary low hardpoint layout would have gotten a 35% HP boost and better weapon quirks than those mechs that only expose 1/4th of their profile.

IS XL Brawlers speed upgrades.

Clan weapon ranges down by 15%, nerf clan medium laser, IS weapon heat down 10%. Make IS run cool, brawl better and generally win in sub 200m fights. Make clans work on 300-500m range. On average, exceptions ofcourse on both sides.

Quirk IS chassis to preserve their individuality, such as dragon, hunchies, etc. Make Clan mechs more generic one type of fit mechs. Variety on IS side.

Thats what I hoped for. I really did.

Edited by coe7, 11 September 2015 - 03:41 PM.

[James Wirth]

As a trueborn warrior and loyalist of Clan Smoke Jaguar, I am disheartened and frustrated by PGI's insistence on "game balance" between IS battlemechs and Clan omnimechs, as well as the constant nerfing of our omnimechs to achieve it.

I have supported this game financially over the past year through the purchase of individual omnimech chassis (via mech credits and a la carte), the Clan Wave 3 package, and Faction content items, but am deeply dissatisfied at seeing the omnimechs I have bought with real money not being allowed to operate at their full potential. Paul's above indication that there are more nerfs to come to bring the omnimechs down ever further below some wholly subjective 70% OP rate is troubling in the extreme, and leaves me questioning whether or not I should continue to support this game any further.

Let me be clear...I do not expect "god mechs," but I do expect omni technology to be utilized as it is in the lore, or else there is no real point in playing in a Clan faction if my weapons and support systems are going to be neutered in such a fashion. The heat spikes are maddening enough on chassis that were designed to carry multiple weapons of the same types. I love the look and feel of the game, but the nerfs have to stop if I am going to continue playing and supporting it financially.

Seyla.

[MischiefSC]

By buffing hitpoints on mechs you reduce the viability of ammo-driven weapons as it takes more damage to get a kill.

Primarily what this did was indirectly give Clan lasers (and a lesser degree IS lasers) a big buff.

[Kossi]

More targeting data for those who can't even hit a barn wall with lbx at 200m? Right... When a good battle starts I'll have difficulties even press R and when I shoot, I'll just shoot at current mech(s) known weak spot(s).

What does increased targeting data provide? Nothing... there only will be even more lrms and when I see for example lrms timber, first I'll laugh and then I'll kill it.

[aGeNTo]

I really wonder why implement the whole paragraph about Clantech and how it is superior into the intro text but THEN only even out IS mechs between themselves and variants.

So this is how the game works out:

Clan Guns > IS Guns with Quirks > IS Guns without quirks > Speed > Information warfare

Then you add up the pros and cons of the mechs that have ****** hardpoint layout and / or ****** arms for peeking / blocking dmg.

There are Tier lists all around, just take them, add some downsides to the most popular mechs, add buffs and quirks to the bad layout mechs / underused ones. The Information warfare can totally be ignored at this point in time.

My ideas for Info Warfare would be: You can block vision range with certain tools of a single mech / surrounding you. Other IW mechs can counter that, like with ECM. Some mechs which lack firepower are immune to that kind of stuff etc. The other thing would be you can shut down an enemy mechs Damage information for the player who controls it, so he does not know how much armor he got left / where to turn his mech. All this really affects the gameplay, not just sensor range and targeting, we are not in EVE online where you need a lock on target to shoot it....

[Li Song]

As has been pointed out by a few already, for this balance pass to work out in competitive play, information warfare has to become much more valuable. A decent pilot will spot, be able to aim and disable/kill a 'mech at range without a red box or even a paper doll.

How should IW be made effective? Add new abilities!

Some rough examples of the top of my brain (some better, some worse):

• Give light IW 'mechs 4-600m range seismic by default. Suddenly you can count the number of and formation of enemies and relay that information. Before the trading begins. The quality and quantity of information and how easily/early it is obtained is what makes this valuable over sensor range because it is not obscured by terrain.
  
• Give IW mechs "soft feet" that make them give much fainter (barely noticeable) seismic signatures so they can sneak past and do their job quickly.
  
• Give IW mechs "active camouflage" by simply making them optically less visible through some gfx dohickey.
  
• Let IW mech's broadcast their entire radar status and pierce ECM up to 500m, a IW mech that has LOS will immediately broadcast instant paper-dolls will HP%, XL/STD engine status, Ammo location. Things that are useful. Also show HP% overlay (similar to Q but for enemies) for picking targets better in a brawl.
  
• Make LRM's travel faster and harder and track better, make them LETHAL, but only if they have IW support. 1xLRM boat + 1xIW = 2.5 mechs worth of firepower, see how this works? The LRM boat has to perform well enough to make it worth bringing it and the IW mech rather than two dakka/laser vomits. I'm not talking about making the target stay visible like with NARC, I'm talking about sharp turns and LRMs dodging obstacles (to some degree). Maybe people would equip AMS too and make it an actual strategic decision to field AMS or not. And make AMS have an impact on incoming DPS that is not neglible.
  
• Let LRM boats choose components to target for their LRMs and the LRMs actually hit that component (obviously not the cockpit) more likely than some other component (but not 100%).

I know the suggestions are no where near perfect but I hope they can spark other ideas for how to actually make IW useful. So yeah, I didn't solve the problem in one go. Go on then bring out the flamehammer! I've got my heatshields turned up to 11!

Edited by Li Song, 11 September 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[MechaBattler]

Are we supposed to sensor our enemies to death? Is that the idea? Perhaps for coordination, it will help. But an equally well coordinated team can do more with raw firepower than a team with sensor data.

If sensors were tied to convergence. THEN it would actually mitigate some of the damage. But even so. They'd manage to get a lock shortly after and alpha you to death.

The sensor quirks aren't bad. But the idea that you can strip away weapon quirks and replaced them with sensor quirks and agility quirks is preposterous. It's not as if they enemy can't shoot at us without lock on.

[wanderer]

Quote

It's not as if they enemy can't shoot at us without lock on

Unless it's LRM/Streaks, of course. For those 'Mechs, enhanced target retention/lockon is actually a plus,as it effectively reduces time-to-fire and increases the odds of a missile reaching it's target before lock is broken.

[Mystere]

stjobe, on 11 September 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

I really, really hope I'm misunderstanding something here, because it sounds like you're saying that e.g. 45-ton 'mechs will be better than 40-ton 'mechs.

There already is little reason to pick a 'mech that isn't 35, 55, 75, or 100 tons, so please alleviate my fears that my Commandos will still be sub-par after this thing hits live.

Light Mechs, this one's for you:

[MischiefSC]

Yeah, good point. This nerfs the crap out of LRMs, cuz yeah.

Please, please let this stuff all get sorted on PTS before it goes live.

Dragon 1N has 4 tota usefull hardpoints. 2 ballistic, 2 energy.

It also has 2 CT missile hardpoints because LOL EFF U DRAGON 1N LOL.

Needs hardpoint inflation if it doesn't get quirks to weapons.

[Pjwned]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

Another thing...you have quirks for durability, mobility, and sensors now, but almost entirely removed all firepower quirks. If firepower is one of the four dimensions to measure a mech's PowerLevel, I think that it's fair for firepower boosts on whichever chassis/variants are deemed to need it.

I can understand that you might not want things like 40% cooldown or whatever, but did the smaller weapon quirks like 5% range or 10% spread have to completely die in the process?

I do agree with this to an extent, but I think that there have been multiple inappropriate categories for quirks aside from just weapon cooldowns, in particular heat quirks for energy weapons which should be practically non-existent, but yes as far as small range quirks or spread quirks I think those are fine and I hope they aren't completely nuked in favor of other bonuses that end up stacked really high to compensate for missing firepower quirks.