772 replies to this topic

[Hex Pallett]

And how is the scoring system suppose to address the meta-build problem?

[Chef Kerensky]

Okay boys. Today we're dropping on Clan Wolf. Did everyone remember to bring their scouting mechs? [Crickets chirp loudly from the shoulders of 12 Battlemasters]

Helmstif, on 11 September 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

And how is the scoring system suppose to address the meta-build problem?

Why is the meta a problem?

Like do you understand what a meta is? There will always be a meta. It just changes. There will always be mechs and weapons and builds objectively better than other mechs and weapons and builds. Why is that bad?

[FupDup]

The poor, underprivileged and underpowered Timber Wolf has been buffed! Thank Kerensky they're helping the sub-par mechs!

[Sputty]

Information warfare and roles are worthless. There was already no reason to ever spread out and now there's even fewer reasons to ever spread out. This change is hurting all IS mechs for no real reason and it's going to make everyone go clan always.

[NienBall]

Mechwarrior is supposed to be a game where you have to outthink your opponent and win through strategy and skill, not a direct brawl, "balancing" completely defeats the purpose of the game. After PGI split with Nerfinator & Co, I felt and saw that the game was actually starting to look like a BattleTech game and not a shoot'em up, but recently it seems like the Devs are regressing back to the "Nerf all the things" mentality that almost sunk them. The game is starting to become too balanced and matches are more like a COD brawl than a well organized chess match-which is what they should be and while it needs to be addressed but as far as nerfing mechs or weapons, especially clan, well enough needs to be left alone.

[Chef Kerensky]

Sthtopokeon, on 11 September 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

@ all the guys arguing that sensors are useless:


You think that sensors are somewhat useless now, but keep in mind that PGI can take active steps to make sensors become useful. They can lower visibility ranges, add fog, remove night vision and what else.

Just because it might seem useless now, doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Ah, good. I was just thinking it was too easy to see in this game with all the **** smearing my screen. Hopefully we'll see Silent Hill: Mechwarrior become a reality in the coming months.

[quantaca]

coe7, on 11 September 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

You can not balance visibility via fog or any other means. If its drawn on screen, you can always tweak your monitor options / GFX card driver presets to see what you want to see... here:

https://dl.dropboxus..._brightness.jpg

Here is a picture of river city night gameplay during darkest hour. Left side of cockpit is in standard screen, with calibrated gamma and color. What average player sees pretty much. On the right side you have Eizo monitor with highly tweaked MWO gamma/saturation/brightness setup of the same gameplay moment.

Oh come on man thats just cheating

Is it playable on the eizo monitor when its not night ? I never really got into graphic settings (other than the basic ones) and monitor tweaking and such, maybe i should :s

[Sputty]

This meta builds aren't really a meta. There is no meta balance to this game where people are changing their game around subtly to meet new requirements and demands from other builds. The meta builds are just the good competitive builds that will always be good because of the way weapons are balanced in MWO. lasers are better and will be until autocannons get improved or lasers made worthless. there is nothing bad about meta builds but people think that this change, which doesn't negatively impact clans as much as IS mechs, will somehow change anything? it just means clan laser builds will remain the same and IS mechs won't get used

[Suzumiya Haruhi no Kerensky]

NienBall, on 11 September 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

Mechwarrior is supposed to be a game where you have to outthink your opponent and win through strategy and skill, not a direct brawl, "balancing" completely defeats the purpose of the game. After PGI split with Nerfinator & Co, I felt and saw that the game was actually starting to look like a BattleTech game and not a shoot'em up, but recently it seems like the Devs are regressing back to the "Nerf all the things" mentality that almost sunk them. The game is starting to become too balanced and matches are more like a COD brawl than a well organized chess match-which is what they should be and while it needs to be addressed but as far as nerfing mechs or weapons, especially clan, well enough needs to be left alone.

how is beating someone in a brawl not using skill

[CtrlAltWheee]

Seems like it would have been okay to add cooldown to all clan weapons and/or duration to clan lasers.

I like the idea that clan mechs play differently. Choose your shot because the cooldowns are long. Takes skill to keep the laser on a ST for the duration of the burn.

I'd take both these changes to clan tech and still be happy with the extended range and increased heat. The clan gauss would remain superior, but I could live with that.

[IraqiWalker]

NienBall, on 11 September 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

Mechwarrior is supposed to be a game where you have to outthink your opponent and win through strategy and skill, not a direct brawl, "balancing" completely defeats the purpose of the game. After PGI split with Nerfinator & Co, I felt and saw that the game was actually starting to look like a BattleTech game and not a shoot'em up, but recently it seems like the Devs are regressing back to the "Nerf all the things" mentality that almost sunk them. The game is starting to become too balanced and matches are more like a COD brawl than a well organized chess match-which is what they should be and while it needs to be addressed but as far as nerfing mechs or weapons, especially clan, well enough needs to be left alone.

Whatever you're smoking, I want some of that.

Coordinated chess match? What game have you been playing? The only chess that exists is when it's a 1v1 fight.

That argument is the worst I've heard for why a PVP game shouldn't be balanced. Which is quite impressive considering the arguments that have been posted in these forums over the years.

Let's do a 1v1 drop. You get into a commando, and I'll jump into a firestarter. Tell me how that would play out. After we're done, we'll do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, ad infinitum. Then let's see if you won't quit, or ask to pilot a firestarter yourself.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 11 September 2015 - 04:56 PM.

[coe7]

quantaca, on 11 September 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Oh come on man thats just cheating

Is it playable on the eizo monitor when its not night ? I never really got into graphic settings (other than the basic ones) and monitor tweaking and such, maybe i should :s

When I see what map it is, I alt+tab and select premade profiles I have for each map. It takes less than a second to switch between various color, hue, vibrance and gamma profiles via Nvidia control panel, when you have them premade.

Edited by coe7, 11 September 2015 - 04:58 PM.

[DaynarFaol]

I believe that one step IS the sensor system issue. Seismic, Magnetic Anomaly Detection, Infer-vision, low-light were pretty much standard sensor suits in all mechs. As was radar. Though to be honest RADAR is accurate but hard as heck to read.


As well as how LRMs are handled currently were everyone is by default equipped with a C4 system for target sharing.

One idea I have had for awhile is shifting LRMS a bit to a two mode system.

From 180 meters to 300 meters they can only work in DIRECT fire mode.

From 300 meters plus they work as they do now in INDIRECT mode.

Direct fire would be flat line to the target.

And players would HAVE to actively switch modes.

My two cents on things so far.

[Khobai]

Quote

What I know is the active community who actually mostly know how to play the game and what they're talking about is on reddit. The vast majority of people who continue to post only on the forums does not come close to accurately portraying what a strong player looks like and therefore I do not take their input as seriously in regards to balance changes. For NPE, sure I'd take their opinion. For other stuff, not so much.

cant tell if youre being serious or not... but reddit has more bads than anywhere.

[MischiefSC]

Sputty, on 11 September 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Information warfare and roles are worthless. There was already no reason to ever spread out and now there's even fewer reasons to ever spread out. This change is hurting all IS mechs for no real reason and it's going to make everyone go clan always.

Quit you mean. Not interested in playing Clan, so I'd be playing something else.

The fundamental issue with Role Warfare is that we're 12 v 12. 2 scouts on 1 side are useful for about 2 minutes - at which point for the whole rest of the match it's now 12 v 10. A dedicated scout mech is wasted tonnage. It's nice, sure. Until the scouting is done. At the point the shooting starts a scout is useless.

You have concepts in BT TT like scouts and recon and such because the population of mechs is asymetric and balanced by a (otherwise completely broken) BV system. It was also most the time PvE: one side was players, the other side the GM running the bad-guys who were pre-created and pre-balanced with a perfect 100% fore-knowledge of the player setup for the purpose of making a fun and balanced game.

There is no real use for scouts in MW:O. Now, a solid fighting light with some scouting-perks on top of being a useful fighting member of the team? Sure, so long as they can scout without leaving the fold.

I get that the existing quirk system was mostly broken and not doing what was wanted. I'm game with giving a new system a try. If there's a comprehensive and actually effective this time balance between IS and Clan weapons coming along with it I'm very happy to consider it.

Sensor stuff though.... it affected me for about 3 matches. At which point it wasn't relevant anymore. It does make the game worse for new players but veteran players are going to just play like everyone has ECM. Same as we've been doing in CW when you're playing IS vs Clans. It's not new or challenging or relevant.

All dakka and SRM builds that were even marginally viable are dead too.

I'm game for starting over but wow, this is many miles away from something really playable competitively.

[Bigbacon]

So how will this solve meta builds and the same mechs being used because they comE out on top of the dpm scale? That is mostlY what took place before andeven with quirks. People will ignore infOrmation for dpm always. The idea is sound, but the end result wIlL be the same, just will be with a new set of mEchs with new load outs

Lasers will still be the goto with srms and most cannons being left behind. Lrms..who knows, but i suspect they will also go unused if targeting gets a nerf.

Like bow is this going to change firestarter meta builds? So they lose quirks but they will still be awesome, they were before, they will continue and so on for other chassis. Like others have said, for vets, no change really

Edited by Bigbacon, 11 September 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[Mordric]

like how this Sounds, and I'm looking forward to seening it implmented..

[J0anna]

Lord Squeezy Fetladral, on 11 September 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

How about this for a crazy idea to make info tech relevant and deal with pin point alpha with no lock:
If you have no lock, your weapons don't pin point as well and will drift a little from each other with the effect getting worse the farther you are away from your target. If you want super accurate pinpoint damage at long range, you need a radar lock. Without it, your damage spreads out making it very hard to one shot some one at distance. Then you will really need scout lights to help those heavy/assault maximize their damage over distance. And a light with ecm will be hard to leg because without a lock, your damage spreads too much to one shot a leg.

This is actually a very good idea, only I would add, that if you can't get a target lock, then your cursor should not provide range data. Additionally I would like to see additional fog of war implemented, if your sensors can't see the mech, you can't see the mech. These changes definitely change the feel of the game, some mechs are very sluggish and can hardly turn at all (looking at you executioner). Oh and one of the Summoner omnipods still has weapon quirks - it's the only one I found.

The structure quirks on IS mechs, lead me to find them more 'tanky' than normal, but without weapon quirks (which actually makes sense if working toward increasing TTK) I'm not sure their structure quirks are enough. Some should have armor quirks too (was looking at some highlanders and victors for this). It's a lot more far reaching then I expected, but Sean did state that this was 'game changing', I'd have to agree with that assessment. Definitely requires more time on my part to get a handle.

One final question, could you please lower the price of everything on the test server to 1 cbill? This allows for a lot more trial and error.

[Kiiyor]

MischiefSC, on 11 September 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

The sensor quirks are irrelevant. Pretty much completely. A 1 second difference in paperdoll population has such an insignificant impact on gameplay it's hard to express how insignificant. Same with sensor range. Much beyond 1,000m you've got enemies who have likely never seen combat and are fresh or have only gotten sporadic sniper fire.

If you want IW to be relevant it needs to be powerful. Negating ECM at long range, covering paperdolls at long range, simultaneously locking every enemy target in LoS, that sort of thing.

These sensor quirks mean nothing. May as well be talking about 1% range quirks on AMS. It has no significant impact on mech performance balance.

I've never relied on sensors anyway. There's enough ECM around, and mechs like the HellBringer are such a threat that I rely on my eyeball anyway.

I really need to jump in and test this, because I have a sinking feeling in my stomach...

[Sputty]

There is no place for role warfare and there won't be after these changes. Everyone will lower info to the lowest value and ignore sensors, choosing to stay close to their team as they do now because it offers no advantage to ever spread out. The desire to shove roles into this game is flawed and will never happen because people stay grouped up as it's the best way to play, the maps are fairly small, the only combat is mech versus mech and there is never an issue with people figuring out where the opposing mechs are. Trying to shove scout and command mechs into this game as it is just wastes effort.

Edited by Sputty, 11 September 2015 - 05:20 PM.