14 replies to this topic

[Spoo Hunter]

I'm a bit surprised that a 'mech using the Garret D2j targeting and tracking system has such bad sensor quirks. The D2j is acknowledged in the lore as being an excellent targeting and tracking system.

Edited by Spoo Hunter, 11 September 2015 - 05:12 PM.

[Akuma]

Agreed. Lore reasons aside, the JM6 chassis is designed as a fire support mech. It should have less maneuverability, and better sensor quirks. Time to scan and acquire targets should be lower, with perhaps torso twist speed or angle increased at the cost of accel/decel - basically the opposite of how it is now. If we're wishlisting, I'd prefer it had huge range of motion with its' arms; a nod to its anti-aircraft + second line support role, and being able to fire on target regardless of orientation or angle of attack. They've always been turrets with legs.

[Ragnahawk]

This targeting sensor quirk is overly intensive with little effect on how the game will play out. I can visibly see or remember were to shoot, and even guess the loadout from first glance in game. I won't know the exact damage but judging from the damage I put out I can guess. This is just extra extra stuff that I want PGI to overlook for now and focus on balancing.

[Kalimaster]

In my opinion, the Jager needs a good sensor boost. The armor is Okay as far as I am concerned, however I also feel that the DD with the Ultra Autocannons needs to retain a high rate of ballistic fire to accomplish it's mission, perhaps a range extension to these weapons is needed. But please, do something with the sensors. I've had targets that I could see but were not appearing on the scanner at 600 meters, and there was no ECM around it.

P.S. Lengthening the appearance of the Ulra AC/5's upon all of the Jagers back towards how they originally looked would be nice. The old style made you feel like a god of doom. Even with the redo, these weapons are still very short by comparison. The visual appearance of the AC 2 and AC 5 are great so lets keep those.

[Dimento Graven]

Y'know one of the things in lore if I remember correct (and I'm too lazy at the moment to go check) was that either the Jaeger could flip its guns 180 and shoot behind itself, OR, it had 360 torso rotation.

I'm fairly certain it was one of the two...

Damnit, now I am motivated to check, one sec...

@Spoo Hunter - You're right, I see where it specifically mentions, "It boasts impressive accuracy due to its Garret D2j targeting and traking system and the extended range of its Mydron Model D autocannon. These systems are usually used in tandem with the less accurate but more powerful Model C autocannon to give a better potential damage rating."

Damnit, after searching every f'ing TRO I own, and I think I own all of 'em I can't find any mention of the Jaeger's ability to torso twist or flip arims 180. Found some on the Rifleman, but we're not getting the Rifleman for a while (Marauder first, then Warhammer, then Rifleman? maybe? I dunno).

Anyway... I think some IS 'mechs need significantly more torso twisting, especially those with super weak side torsos, such as the Jaeger.

[Tarogato]

+1 lore references. Thank you for pointing that out, OP.

I don't think the Jager is ever going to be over-powered, so we don't need to nerf its sensors, its yaw, or its turn rate. As an AA-platform, it should have excellent targeting systems.

I don't understand the need for structure buffs on it. Again, it's an AA-platform. I understand that we don't have interactive air units in MWO, but being an AA-platform and long range support mech, like the Rifleman, kinda implies it's a glass cannon. It brings fairly good guns to the table. Leave the structure behind and give it ballistic velocity and improved jam chance.

[Spoo Hunter]

@Dimento Graven, In the TT rules any mech with no lower arm and hand actuators could flip their arms over and fire backwards. Such a maneuver takes the place of the torso twist. A neat trick in the static turn system of the TT, but probably of very limited use in a real-time game like MWO (unless we had a rear-vision mirror ).

Perhaps a mirror should be the next cockpit item.

*Edit* Couldn't resist whipping up a concept...

Edited by Spoo Hunter, 12 September 2015 - 01:27 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Spoo Hunter, on 12 September 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

@Dimento Graven, In the TT rules any mech with no lower arm and hand actuators could flip their arms over and fire backwards. Such a maneuver takes the place of the torso twist. A neat trick in the static turn system of the TT, but probably of very limited use in a real-time game like MWO (unless we had a rear-vision mirror ).

Perhaps a mirror should be the next cockpit item.

*Edit* Couldn't resist whipping up a concept...

Hah, actually I was thinking of a new game feature to support rear mounted weapons (and in line with the current subject, arm flipping), a key that causes us to 'flip to rear perspective'.

Everyone could mount weapons in their 'mech, tag them as 'rear firing' and each 'mech could assign Key 7 as the "rear firing group". Then, there'd be a key press, let's just make one up for argument's sake, F5, where, the screen would "flash" and you'd be looking out the rear with a maximum 70 degree viewing angle (because of TT rear firing arc lore), and wallah, you're primary mouse button fires the rear weapons.

Maybe to increase the 'difficulty' factor of this, have the mouse movement and AWSD keys work in reverse, S key moves you TRUE forward, W moves you TRUE backwards, A torso twists true right, D torso twists true left, etc.

Talk about 'flavoring', BUT, it'd a nifty feature of the game that, as far as I know hasn't really been replicated in very many other versions of BattleTech/MechWarrior.

[Apocalypse Pryde]

Why would anything but the vertical controls work in reverse when viewed from a rear facing camera? Even then, why would vertical controls be reversed, considering a flip switch could invert the signal at an analog level?


(edited to add , considering a flip switch could invert the signal at an analog level)

Edited by Apocalypse Pryde, 13 September 2015 - 12:50 PM.

[Steel Raven]

The new quirk system just seem odd, ether your mech has good structure buffs or sensor buffs. If those sensor buff are no good, then a good number of mechs are getting the shaft.

Edited by Steel Raven, 13 September 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Omi_]

Dimento Graven, on 12 September 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Y'know one of the things in lore if I remember correct (and I'm too lazy at the moment to go check) was that either the Jaeger could flip its guns 180 and shoot behind itself, OR, it had 360 torso rotation.

I'm fairly certain it was one of the two...

Damnit, now I am motivated to check, one sec...

@Spoo Hunter - You're right, I see where it specifically mentions, "It boasts impressive accuracy due to its Garret D2j targeting and traking system and the extended range of its Mydron Model D autocannon. These systems are usually used in tandem with the less accurate but more powerful Model C autocannon to give a better potential damage rating."

Damnit, after searching every f'ing TRO I own, and I think I own all of 'em I can't find any mention of the Jaeger's ability to torso twist or flip arims 180. Found some on the Rifleman, but we're not getting the Rifleman for a while (Marauder first, then Warhammer, then Rifleman? maybe? I dunno).

Anyway... I think some IS 'mechs need significantly more torso twisting, especially those with super weak side torsos, such as the Jaeger.

Pretty sure you're thinking Quickdraw.

[Dimento Graven]

Hornsby, on 13 September 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

Pretty sure you're thinking Quickdraw.

No I'm pretty sure ANY 'mech without lower arm actuators could do this. It was just that the Quickdraw was the only 'mech I can remember WITH lower arm actuators that had this quirk.

EDIT: Ok found it, Book 35000 - Classic BattleTech Master Rules - Revised Edition, pg 87:

Quote

REVERSING ARMS
BattleMechs constructed without hand and lower arm actuators in either arm have the ability to flip their arms over and fire backward. This ability only applies to ’Mechs originally constructed lacking those actuators, not ’Mechs that lose them due to critical damage.

A BattleMech that intends to reverse its arm-mounted weapons must flip both arms during the weapon attack declaration. This maneuver takes the place of a torso twist. When it flips its arms, the BattleMech may then fire any arm-mounted weapon into the rear firing arc instead of the usual firing arcs for those weapons.

Prone ’Mechs: Since a prone ’Mech may not torso twist, it also may not reverse its arms.
ProtoMechs: Regardless of their arm equipment, ProtoMechs cannot reverse (flip) their arms.

So there you go... We should have 'mechs capable of flipping their arms, for fun and profit!

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 September 2015 - 06:46 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

So there you go... We should have 'mechs capable of flipping their arms, for fun and profit!

um you cant see behind you so whats the point?

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 03 October 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

um you cant see behind you so whats the point?

That's ok, you go ahead and read back a few of my previous posts, and you'll get the idea I was trying to get across.

You're only getting a THIRD the story with that one post, girl!

[Khobai]

yeah the last thing we need is direwolves shooting backwards.