103 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Know how clan XL engines have barely any penalty for losing 20% of it when a side torso is gone? Yeah, that needs to be fixed and this re-balance is the perfect opportunity to do so.

Concerned that an extra penalty will affect your favorite god tier clan mech? Too bad, that's the point.

Concerned that an extra penalty will affect your favorite mediocre/bad clan mech that gets shafted in 1 way or another? Well, as it so happens, this re-balance can easily address that by compensating the mech with some extra quirks, although there are some cases where other systems need to be fixed (e.g Mad Dog being stuck with Ferro Fibrous armor and being objectively worse off for it compared to having Endo Steel structure) in order to really address the issues with them.

The clan XL engine is too powerful and it needs a worthwhile penalty when 20% of it is lost.

[SkyHammyr]

Actually, I want to see IS get CXL equivalent engines.
Just make all the IS XLs LFEs and call it done.

[FupDup]

SkyHammr, on 11 September 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Actually, I want to see IS get CXL equivalent engines.
Just make all the IS XLs LFEs and call it done.

The main issue with that is invalidating STD engines on the majority of mechs. They would only be considered for things like fitting AC/20 or 2 UAC/5 in a side torso.

[Pjwned]

SkyHammr, on 11 September 2015 - 09:46 PM, said:

Actually, I want to see IS get CXL equivalent engines.
Just make all the IS XLs LFEs and call it done.

That would be a way of doing it I guess, but it would also be insane power creep, and standard engines might as well not exist after that.

I do actually think LFEs should exist, but only if properly balanced, and then cXL engines would have the same penalty but still retain their weight advantage.

[Duke Nedo]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

The main issue with that is invalidating STD engines on the majority of mechs. They would only be considered for things like fitting AC/20 or 2 UAC/5 in a side torso.

Just give STD engines the Atlas quirks... really sad about this too OP, it's an opportunity lost. Give all IS mechs structure quirks and nerfing all clan mechs is just the most lazy way to do it so ofcourse that's what they'll do.

[SkyHammyr]

Duke Nedo, on 11 September 2015 - 10:01 PM, said:

Just give STD engines the Atlas quirks...

Oooo

OR, tie Side Torso Structure Quirks to IS XLs.
Like say, all IS XLs come with +12pt Side Torso Structure.

[Telmasa]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

The main issue with that is invalidating STD engines on the majority of mechs. They would only be considered for things like fitting AC/20 or 2 UAC/5 in a side torso.

Not if LFEs suffer the same side torso loss penalty that cXL does. Brawler mechs in particular would not fancy the mobility/heat penalties from losing a torso...and also would fear losing both torsos (so any "zombie" mechs especially would want STD engine).

[FupDup]

Telmasa, on 11 September 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

Not if LFEs suffer the same side torso loss penalty that cXL does. Brawler mechs in particular would not fancy the mobility/heat penalties from losing a torso...and also would fear losing both torsos (so any "zombie" mechs especially would want STD engine).

Being able to survive one side torso loss is functionally about the same as surviving two of them. By that point, your CT and/or legs are usually damaged to the point that it won't matter. Surviving one side is the best of both worlds between instadeath and zombies, it has the advantages of both and the weaknesses of neither.

[Telmasa]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Being able to survive one side torso loss is functionally about the same as surviving two of them. By that point, your CT and/or legs are usually damaged to the point that it won't matter. Surviving one side is the best of both worlds between instadeath and zombies, it has the advantages of both and the weaknesses of neither.

That same argument pretty much applies to regular XL too though...and zombies (done properly) can take much, much more punishment than any Clan 'Mech can.

Many of the Clan 'Mechs I see definitely rue the fact they can't survive the loss of both torsos.

Now, certainly, *most* 'Mechs would want to use the LFEs...that's rather the point. It's a middle ground between two extremes. But you missed another disadvantage: LFE doesn't free up as much tonnage as XL.

Edited by Telmasa, 11 September 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[FupDup]

Telmasa, on 11 September 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

That same argument pretty much applies to regular XL too though...and zombies (done properly) can take much, much more punishment than any Clan 'Mech can.

Many of the Clan 'Mechs I see definitely rue the fact they can't survive the loss of both torsos.

Now, certainly, *most* 'Mechs would want to use the LFEs...that's rather the point. It's a middle ground between two extremes. But you missed another disadvantage: LFE doesn't free up as much tonnage as XL.

The decision would look like:

If you're a light or maybe medium/heavy with good agility and certain hitboxes --> Use IS XL
If you're anything else --> Use IS LFE

That's really about it. The only possible exception might be a critslot-starved mech like the Stalker.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

Clan XL doesn't need a nerf. There was a time when you could say the clan mechs were much, much better than their innersphere counter-parts. That time has passed, your're not advocating a balance, you're advocating the clan mechs to be made a worthless joke.

[Duke Nedo]

Bespoke Cheese Cake, on 11 September 2015 - 10:29 PM, said:

Clan XL doesn't need a nerf. There was a time when you could say the clan mechs were much, much better than their innersphere counter-parts. That time has passed, your're not advocating a balance, you're advocating the clan mechs to be made a worthless joke.

That's your incorrect opinion.

[Volkodav]

They at moment worse - crappy when played by two teams in CW. Does not compare against a group vs pugs. Group vs group, if the IS team uses meta sphere mechs they win in most cases.

[XX Sulla XX]

Just give us new IS tech to balance things better.

[Ragnahawk]

I think a lot of this falls on the clan medium lasers. Everyone knows that all clan mechs generally preform well when you slap a bunch of ac5's or guass with medium lasers. The range needs to be lowered on the medium laser so you can't snipe with medium lasers.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

Duke Nedo, on 11 September 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

That's your incorrect opinion.

Ok, but how am I wrong?
In my experience clan mechs are not that hard to kill using Innersphere mechs. I don't make any claims of being a great player, but if my XL grasshopper can smash through a clan heavy 1 on 1 then the conclusion I make is they must be pretty even.
My wolverine can go toe to toe with stormcrow and my Locust can be fantastic for harassing clan assaults.

So please point out to me how and why this match up is unfair.

[Papaspud]

Volkodav, on 11 September 2015 - 11:25 PM, said:

They at moment worse - crappy when played by two teams in CW. Does not compare against a group vs pugs. Group vs group, if the IS team uses meta sphere mechs they win in most cases.

Really, have you looked up the CW map? I guess all those innersphere teams are just kicking clan butt...hahahahahaha

Clans are OP right now, and if you aren't, then you are doing it wrong.

[patibaul]

XX Sulla XX, on 11 September 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Just give us new IS tech to balance things better.

And so as some old tech like mech rifle, Laser Cannon can help balance.
God knows how we need those thing.

[Volkodav]

Papaspud, on 12 September 2015 - 01:56 AM, said:

Really, have you looked up the CW map? I guess all those innersphere teams are just kicking clan butt...hahahahahaha

Clans are OP right now, and if you aren't, then you are doing it wrong.

Not so long ago was a completely opposite situation.


it's not something - just in one side - PREMEIDS and good units, and on the other side - PUGS. Predominantly.

Edited by Volkodav, 12 September 2015 - 03:13 AM.

[Volkodav]

I believe, that at the moment the balance between the Clans and IS at a good. Not changes.

Edited by Volkodav, 12 September 2015 - 03:16 AM.