27 replies to this topic

[oldradagast]

Eldagore, on 13 September 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Reading comprehension. This is all explained in my OP, where I say assaults ARE assaults. The info stuff etc should just be to differentiate each variant some. What you are ranting on about is EXACTLY what I took as Paul's intentions and why I wrote the OP. Did you even read it?

You're missing what I said:

- First, I get what you said, but you're not the one writing the code or creating the data on the test server. With all due respect, it does not matter what you meant - or what I meant - regarding what mechs should be. All that matters is what PGI does, and based on the PTS data, they don't understand what you, I, or much of anyone else in this community wants, nor do they seem to have even the most basic grasp of game balance.

- Even if "an assault should be an assault," which is true, that doesn't mean PGI will leave it that way, and as I was stating, people will be royally ticked if the mechs they bought to fill one role turn into something that plays entirely differently because of PGI's visions and whims.

This wound has been festering since the Clan Invasion, where all the IS mechs turned to scrap overnight. Then, we had Quirks, and Quirks 2, and heaven only knows what else, and now we have the great Unbalancing, with even more extreme and random changes proposed. One cannot fault the community for being burnt out on mechs morphing into other things, particularly 2 years into the game's release.

I have 20 million cbills and enough "play money" to buy anything in this game. Give me one reason - any reason - to buy anything at this point where everything we buy can, and almost surely will, change into something totally different within 6 months... and then may do the same thing yet again within the 6 months after that. And that, right there, is how this Unbalancing nonsense is threatening this game's existence.

Edited by oldradagast, 13 September 2015 - 04:23 PM.

[Zordicron]

oldradagast, on 13 September 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

You're missing what I said:

- First, I get what you said, but you're not the one writing the code or creating the data on the test server. With all due respect, it does not matter what you meant - or what I meant - regarding what mechs should be. All that matters is what PGI does, and based on the PTS data, they don't understand what you, I, or much of anyone else in this community wants, nor do they seem to have even the most basic grasp of game balance.

- Even if "an assault should be an assault," which is true, that doesn't mean PGI will leave it that way, and as I was stating, people will be royally ticked if the mechs they bought to fill one role turn into something that plays entirely differently because of PGI's visions and whims.

This wound has been festering since the Clan Invasion, where all the IS mechs turned to scrap overnight. Then, we had Quirks, and Quirks 2, and heaven only knows what else, and now we have the great Unbalancing, with even more extreme and random changes proposed. One cannot fault the community for being burnt out on mechs morphing into other things, particularly 2 years into the game's release.

I have 20 million cbills and enough "play money" to buy anything in this game. Give me one reason - any reason - to buy anything at this point where everything we buy can, and almost surely will, change into something totally different within 6 months... and then may do the same thing yet again within the 6 months after that. And that, right there, is how this Unbalancing nonsense is threatening this game's existence.

I can;t control any of those things, and being bittervet nerdrage at my suggestions wont change that.

All I can do, is express what I feel is the way to move forward GIVEN THAT PAUL WILL MOVE FORWARD. I mean, thats the project right now, thats what they are investing in. Bittervet post all you want, it will most certainly be ignored by the ones that DO make the choices here. I mean, how many posts and threads reading "PGI is teh suxx paul you suk" do you think they are going to actually read more then the title on?

Nerdraging(not aimed at just you Radagast) about "this has been broken since" and especially the ones ragin about info warfare being a closed beta design pillar uberfail etc are really, really off base with trying to get Paul to listen.

So they haven't put it in since closed beta? WHO ******* CARES NOW. they are doing it, NOW. NOW is the time to be constructive, and try to bend PGI's ears toward a system that DOES take into account weight class role warfare. Want them to do something else first? TOUGH, we are getting this first.

So, AGAIN, let's help Paul make THIS THING NOW work for the future goals we want. Let's help him design a system that is future proof enough to accomodate what we are after down the road, namely a battletech game where mechs don;t blow up the second two enemies look at it from 800M and something besides how many lasers can it mount on top of it's head matter to which mech you choose.

[Lily from animove]

oldradagast, on 13 September 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

You're missing what I said:

- First, I get what you said, but you're not the one writing the code or creating the data on the test server. With all due respect, it does not matter what you meant - or what I meant - regarding what mechs should be. All that matters is what PGI does, and based on the PTS data, they don't understand what you, I, or much of anyone else in this community wants, nor do they seem to have even the most basic grasp of game balance.

- Even if "an assault should be an assault," which is true, that doesn't mean PGI will leave it that way, and as I was stating, people will be royally ticked if the mechs they bought to fill one role turn into something that plays entirely differently because of PGI's visions and whims.

This wound has been festering since the Clan Invasion, where all the IS mechs turned to scrap overnight. Then, we had Quirks, and Quirks 2, and heaven only knows what else, and now we have the great Unbalancing, with even more extreme and random changes proposed. One cannot fault the community for being burnt out on mechs morphing into other things, particularly 2 years into the game's release.

I have 20 million cbills and enough "play money" to buy anything in this game. Give me one reason - any reason - to buy anything at this point where everything we buy can, and almost surely will, change into something totally different within 6 months... and then may do the same thing yet again within the 6 months after that. And that, right there, is how this Unbalancing nonsense is threatening this game's existence.

lol, you think everoyne follows the flavour of the month? and you think this behavior is what keeps MWO alive? The big pack buyers is what brings the real base income, And they knwo they buy a mix of good and shiity mechs, dependign on which pakc is juts available.

Wave 1 had some winners and losers, Wave 2 was mostly crap. Wave 3 was a bit better. Many people bought that and never thought about the top mechs only.

However what cna threaten the game is when PGI breakes balance even more because then there is less and elss reason to buy packs when 90% f the containing mechs are dead. Whats the point fo byuing omnimechs which are said to be configurable, when in fact 2/3 are configurable tot he same but inferior. YOLO.
And when PGI messes too mucha roudn with those "mobility" to make mechs less accessable to newbies, because gettign frehs people into the game means beign able to sell old content. But how you gonna explain a newbie that this mech he just uses behaves ENTIRELY different just because it has 2 different harpdpoints? And further tell him he should now test all the other 200 existing mechs to figure out what he wants or needs. -.-

[Zordicron]

Lily from animove, on 14 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

And when PGI messes too mucha roudn with those "mobility" to make mechs less accessable to newbies, because gettign frehs people into the game means beign able to sell old content. But how you gonna explain a newbie that this mech he just uses behaves ENTIRELY different just because it has 2 different harpdpoints? And further tell him he should now test all the other 200 existing mechs to figure out what he wants or needs. -.-

Actually this is a good point, and further illustrates why the info and "new quirks" system MUST be packaged by weight class roles first and foremost.

An assault still needs to be an assault first. THEN, take this system to flavor the variants, and make sure it is easily accessible for people to see, ESPECIALLY at the store.

In fact, simply labeling the roll the mech is intended to fill(remember, within it's weightclass and then chassis) on top of the quirk list, maybe even a brief description of the gameplay style, would go a tremendous way to allowing a new face to figure out what the heck all the numbers are for.

Example, Atlas DDC
Bastion: The Atlas DDC is the heart of the front line, providing massive support fire and ECM coverage ability for his team mates at the front line. The DDC is the center of combat, but not the focus.
Qurik list...etc...etc

Now, thats a little weak for a description, but you get the idea.

[Tarogato]

tl;dr, BUT...

OP nailed it in the first 12 paragraphs, so upvote it is. Agreed: concentrate of large scope applications (like four classes of infotech, light, medium, heavy assault), test them, then most to more minute scopes (like infotech per chassis), test, then move on to the most picky of details (infotech per variant but only where appropriate to make such changes)

[oldradagast]

Lily from animove, on 14 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

lol, you think everoyne follows the flavour of the month? and you think this behavior is what keeps MWO alive? The big pack buyers is what brings the real base income, And they knwo they buy a mix of good and shiity mechs, dependign on which pakc is juts available.

Wave 1 had some winners and losers, Wave 2 was mostly crap. Wave 3 was a bit better. Many people bought that and never thought about the top mechs only.

However what cna threaten the game is when PGI breakes balance even more because then there is less and elss reason to buy packs when 90% f the containing mechs are dead. Whats the point fo byuing omnimechs which are said to be configurable, when in fact 2/3 are configurable tot he same but inferior. YOLO.
And when PGI messes too mucha roudn with those "mobility" to make mechs less accessable to newbies, because gettign frehs people into the game means beign able to sell old content. But how you gonna explain a newbie that this mech he just uses behaves ENTIRELY different just because it has 2 different harpdpoints? And further tell him he should now test all the other 200 existing mechs to figure out what he wants or needs. -.-

So... you're basically agree with me. And, with all due respect, yes - flavor of the month, be it meta or whatever mechs are on sale that allow people to try to bring back their childhood one last time - are what drives the game. As for the restl, well, yeah... there's no way at all to explain the mess on the PTS that was shown over the weekend. What was there was unplayable as a real game.

[oldradagast]

Eldagore, on 13 September 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

So they haven't put it in since closed beta? WHO ******* CARES NOW. they are doing it, NOW. NOW is the time to be constructive, and try to bend PGI's ears toward a system that DOES take into account weight class role warfare. Want them to do something else first? TOUGH, we are getting this first.

The problem is that "This" doesn't make a lick of sense. We've got mechs from the same chassis type that don't behave remotely like each other and false choices of "great sensors" or "great weapons."

I see what you're getting at - help them out vs. beat them down - but you have to understand that at some point people are going to stop cutting them slack everytime they knock the game off balance yet again with some "great idea" based on nothing concrete at all. And an ever-increasing percentage of the community is hitting that point, particularly after what happened this weekend.

I'd love to give them slack, but it is far, FAR more likely that the end result of this will be a stable full of mechs that are next to worthless because they no longer play in any way similar to why I bought them; and the solution to that is not to just pony up and buy more mechs. We know what the community response to that will be - does PGI know or care?

Edited by oldradagast, 14 September 2015 - 06:06 PM.

[Zordicron]

oldradagast, on 14 September 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

The problem is that "This" doesn't make a lick of sense. We've got mechs from the same chassis type that don't behave remotely like each other and false choices of "great sensors" or "great weapons."

I see what you're getting at - help them out vs. beat them down - but you have to understand that at some point people are going to stop cutting them slack everytime they knock the game off balance yet again with some "great idea" based on nothing concrete at all. And an ever-increasing percentage of the community is hitting that point, particularly after what happened this weekend.

I'd love to give them slack, but it is far, FAR more likely that the end result of this will be a stable full of mechs that are next to worthless because they no longer play in any way similar to why I bought them; and the solution to that is not to just pony up and buy more mechs. We know what the community response to that will be - does PGI know or care?

My man, I get it, you and several others on the forums have seen the song and dance before, etc.

But it still doesn;t help at all, bitterposting about closed beta my man. We are deep into page two of this thread, and I tell ya what, i have spent hands down more time trying to get people to just post something constructive here, responding to one form or another of bitterpost, then discussing what we would like as players in the future regarding weight class roles and how to add Pauls info war stuff into those roles so we CAN have role warfare etc.

The more I read stuff on the forums, the more I understand why PGI rarely comes here. It is exausting filtering through all the bile and just.... bad... comments and threads. I understand criticism, and it's role in discussion. but much of the stuff here boils down to hyperbolic "PGISUXX" idiotspew, and there isn;t enough moderation involved to clean it all up.

So, seriously now, thats all I have to say about the subject of the past- it is in the past, and we need to really put forth a good discusiion about info war if we want Paul and crew to make a serious effort at getting it right and not just say "f it they won;t accept anything we do anyway".