6 replies to this topic

[arcangelS7]

Ghost Heat is a bad mechanic. It is didn't affect the core problem (pin-point aiming rewards front loaded damage more than damage over time), inconsistent (try explain the ghost heat rules to a new player) and ineffective (time to kill still got lower and the meta just shifted to builds that it wouldn't effect).
Target Acquisition Delay is even worst for the game than Ghost Heat. It doesn't affect the core problems of the Information Warfare Pillar, it is applied inconsistently over battlemechs in the PTS, it's effects are basically ignor-able by the majority of the player base, it makes things significantly worse for new players, it's another massive debuff of already weak weapons, and it makes I.W.P matter less than ever before. An explanation for each complaint:

• 
  The core problem with the Information Warfare Pillar is that the information it provides doesn't really matter much. Most of the information about a mech's build can be obtained through observation on the battlefield and time to kill is low enough that it's not worth the effort to try and hit a mech's weak points. T.A.D. doesn't do anything to address these issues.
  
• 
  I've looked through the data quirks from the PTS, and placement of TAD quirks are all over the place. There doesn't seem to be a common theme and direction to their placement. Maybe I'm just missing something, but why do scout mechs like the Commando and LRM-Boats like the Catapult have TAD quirks?
  
• 
  TAD quirks only delay the addition of a mech's location to your HUD, mini-map and it's availability for target locks. With the prevalence of ECM, the majority of experienced players are used to locating and hitting mechs without the aid of their HUD. The TAD quirks will have zero effect on their play.
  
• 
  New players don't have those skill though, and they don't know the maps or were opponents are liking to show up. TAD quirks will make it significantly harder for new players to learn these things because it is withholding the information they need to learn those skills, likely for long enough effort that they will be killed.
  
• 
  The weapons that TAD will effect most are LRMs and SSRMs, which are already some of the weakest in the game. The only ones that are relevant are massed Clan-SSRM builds, and there are other, better ways to deal with them, such as "ghost heat" or stagger firing SSRMs.
  
• 
  This is a big one for me. At a fundamental level TAD makes IWP worst because it gives players less time to use the Information Warfare Pillar. Even ignoring the issues with time to kill which would result in mechs being destroyed before they had gotten past their TAD time, the way to fix a broken motorcyle is not to start taking off one of the tires. Whatever other IWP systems get built, TAD will always reduce their usefulness, as we will always be unable to use them for those key few seconds when a battle starts. It will teach players to ignore IWP because it won't be there when they need it. It is literally taking away a tool that players want to be able to use to achieve their goals. It is the worse possible option to implement if your goal is to make IWP more interesting and important in game play other than completely removing the system entirely.

Hopefully, I haven't made people to angry with my rant and there is some support for lobby PGI to abandon this idea completely.
TL;DR: Yes, Target Acquisition Delay really is that bad.

[aniviron]

I'm afraid I have to agree with every single point on this list. TAD is an interesting idea, but ultimately is too damaging. Maybe if it were quarter and half second delays it would be okay, but the way it's been implemented right now, TAD doesn't work at all. It has the counter-intuitive effect as well that if you are weaving in and out of cover as a brawler, you will never be able to target a mech that is 30m away while at midrange you're more likely to be able to get targeting info.

I'd also like to add that a lot of my lights have great sensor quirks like +50% scan rate at mid range but then they also get +3 seconds of TAD. Meanwhile, my mediums and heavies have almost no TAD for the most part even if their scanning takes longer, so paradoxically it actually takes less time to scan something in a heavier mech than a light because the TAD takes so long that by the time you can even target it another mech will have been able to scan.

And yes, finally, I do think TAD hurts new players the most. I had a moment of alarm/clarity last night fighting a Highlander in a brawl where I couldn't get any target info at all. I was going "Damn, where to shoot-" and then remembered that because I know the game well I could just focus down the right torso to take all of his weapons off, and from then on the target info didn't matter to me at all. But at the same time I realized that a new player would have no idea what was going on, and would probably be spraying fire across all three torsi, without even getting feedback from the sensors about which component he was hitting.

[Vashramire]

TAD seems so random at times since mechs can vary greatly. It needs consistency by either class or chassis. I don't want to remember every mechs TAD, Data Range multipliers, and Retention. Aside from certain command mechs (DDC and such) all variants should be the same really. I see an Atlas or Zeus I know it will take X seconds to spot me and they will drop me at Y seconds. Then just give command mechs a boost to that baseline.

Edited by Vashramire, 12 September 2015 - 12:49 PM.

[Tsangdhori]

Have to agree here as well. TAD is definitely going to be confusing to new players while being completely ignored by the experienced.

[Andi Nagasia]

some of the Class based Quirks need to be looked at abit,
but for day 1-2 i think its good, hopefully PGI looks to all our Feed Back,
and not just the (no Weapon Quirks have Ruined Diversity Crowd),

[Krivvan]

Vashramire, on 12 September 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

TAD seems so random at times since mechs can vary greatly. It needs consistency by either class or chassis. I don't want to remember every mechs TAD, Data Range multipliers, and Retention. Aside from certain command mechs (DDC and such) all variants should be the same really. I see and Atlas or Zeus I know it will take X seconds to spot me and they will drop me at Y seconds. Then just give command mechs a boost to that baseline.

Exactly. I think it helps diversity and game flavor to be able to think of certain mechs as being in certain roles, and consequently those mechs getting only those kinds of benefits. Even if I was down with infotech, I'd want a few mechs to have massive infotech quirks, but then get nothing else. As is, it feels like every mech has the same kinds of quirks and even though I know there are differences, it's very hard to tell what those differences are between the mechs or even variants.

[Lily from animove]

Tsangdhori, on 12 September 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

Have to agree here as well. TAD is definitely going to be confusing to new players while being completely ignored by the experienced.

not only ignored, pugs vs premades in CW will eman, instant infoprmation warfare for the premades on comm, which means entirely negating the downsides. The pugs get the full scale donwsides.
And the only way to reduce this for pugs is using mechs with less firepower, which then makes them being at a big disadvantage.

This system is too complicated for noobs and even IF they udnerstand it the advantage stays real unless they know all mechs their hitboxes and play n coms with each other. PGI better makes T2 players NOT meet any T4's becaue they artificially increased the gap between them by just too much. (but then CW is without MM)