37 replies to this topic

[skorpionet]

You wrote:

• If a players' team loses, but the player does exceptionally well (achieving a very high Match Score), the player will go up slightly in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player performed well (achieving a high Match Score), the player will not move in skill rating.
  
• If the players' team loses, and the player performed poorly (achieving a low Match Score), they will drop in skill rating.

Seems that there are match score steps to determine very high, high, low but I think that the algorithm must check overall team performance.



Check this:


This causes a drop in my PSR....



PGI, could you better explain PSR algorithm?

Mates, what's your opinion?

Best Regards

Edited by skorpionet, 24 September 2015 - 12:27 AM.

[Thorqemada]

With a matchscore of 300 i did not have a loss of Tier XP in a lost match - it does not move.

Had a won match with a Score of 71 and it was "Equal".

Edited by Thorqemada, 24 September 2015 - 12:39 PM.

[Torgun]

OP got rolled fast and didn't do very much, What's the controversy in dropping down a bit?

[Deathlike]

The most likely scenario is that it either goes by average and your deviation from the mean... or it's a simple threshold value that you have to reach to not lose PSR (or not lose/gain or strictly gain a little).

[Vlad Ward]

I am confused by OP's confusion. Is 170~ match score supposed to be high?

It takes about ~300 match score to break even on a loss, in my experience. Sometimes ~280 will cut it, sometimes it won't. I haven' figured out what causes the difference yet.

~500 Match score will typically result in a gain on a loss.

[Jin Ma]

Vlad Ward, on 24 September 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

I am confused by OP's confusion. Is 170~ match score supposed to be high?

It takes about ~300 match score to break even on a loss, in my experience. Sometimes ~280 will cut it, sometimes it won't. I haven' figured out what causes the difference yet.

~500 Match score will typically result in a gain on a loss.

Its kind of nice that it accounts for the person who carries

[El Bandito]

Just remember:

< 300 = loss

300-400 = same

500 < = gain

[skorpionet]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Just remember:

< 300 = loss

300-400 = same

500 < = gain

Ok, now I know this but "I think that the algorithm must check overall team performance."

[Cpt Jason McCarthy]

Only a Match score above 250 will protect your PSR in a loss.

[skorpionet]

Shadowpunisher, on 24 September 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

Only a Match score above 250 will protect your PSR in a loss.

Ok ok... but you think that this is right if you score 249, are the best in your team, are the only to have killed a mech?

[El Bandito]

skorpionet, on 24 September 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Ok ok... but you think that this is right if you score 249, are the best in your team, are the only to have killed a mech?

Yes. Bad score is bad, period.

[Appogee]

I have noticed that new players start in Tier 4 ... not Tier 3, as PGI originally stated.

[sycocys]

Vlad Ward, on 24 September 2015 - 12:59 AM, said:

Sometimes ~280 will cut it, sometimes it won't. I haven' figured out what causes the difference yet.

Here's the big problem - there's no set baseline. I've wen't down with scores of 300 simply because I drew more bad players on my team than the other team did. If it was 'do this average and stay the same' it wouldn't be a huge issue, but you need to both do that average AND have MM luck that you don't rng a team that makes that average a losing score anyhow.

[Paigan]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 02:48 AM, said:

Here's the big problem - there's no set baseline. I've wen't down with scores of 300 simply because I drew more bad players on my team than the other team did. If it was 'do this average and stay the same' it wouldn't be a huge issue, but you need to both do that average AND have MM luck that you don't rng a team that makes that average a losing score anyhow.

^this

I had multiple games like this:

DWF, so I'm primary target for 4-6 mechs.
The rest of my team manages to get stomped by the rest nonetheless (11 vs 8-6).
I manage to deal >400 damage despite being focussed and my team being roflstomped before I die (range and cover).
My score: ~250
My rate change: down. EVERY time.
Come on. I don't want to get promoted for it, it wasn't that good, but it would be more than fair to let the rating unchanged by that match with those numbers.

It's also the other way around:
I more less suck in a match (low damage, no kills, no cap or anything, 170 score) but my team wins.
My rate change: UP I go. EVERY time.
I should at least have stayed the same, if not even get down rated for that match.

I'm pretty sure the current, shiny new PSR is 99% the same as before:
your team wins -> you go up
your team loses -> you go down

Any MAYBE some 1% special corner cases that are more less irrelevant.

Not to mention PSR punishes efficiency and accuracy and rewards useless damage spraying, which makes the in principle good idea effectively broken.

Edited by Paigan, 24 September 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[El Bandito]

Appogee, on 24 September 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

I have noticed that new players start in Tier 4 ... not Tier 3, as PGI originally stated.

I thought they said from the beginning that newbies start in T4. Otherwise, they have a chance to face T1 players, and that would suck major time.

[Nik Reaper]

Yeah, this version of Psr only helps edge cases, where you do 800+ dmg and the team losses , or you do sub 100 but team wins, it's still about the win/loss.

Though, if you had a 50/50 w/l split before, with it you should be able to get more than 50% up ratings if you try harder even if the w/l stays at 50/50, and eventually tier up, witch is what they were going for I guess...

Edited by Nik Reaper, 24 September 2015 - 03:36 AM.

[Appogee]

This is indicative of my life today in PSR Tier 2...

I am dropped in a team where:
* 4 players just walk straight into the enemy guns, do <50 damage each, and die. It's now 8 vs 12.
* 3 other players manage less <200 damage each, and die. It's now 5 vs 10.
* I've engaged throughout. I've solo killed one enemy. I've Kill Most Damage to another.
* But now it's me and just one other guy, facing 9 enemies.
* The enemy deathball walks over the top of us, game over.

I've done the most* damage, and the highest* match score. But my PSR goes down.



* I am not suggesting that a damage total of 376 (in my unElited Mauler) is good. Nor that a match score of 213 is good, either. They're not.

The issue is whether I was supposed to be able to do more than 'best on the team' in the brief three minutes from when the team was engaged in battle. Did I actually fail to live up to my PSR by being unable to turn around a match for a team which is largely not competent...?

Edited by Appogee, 24 September 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[Paigan]

Appogee, on 24 September 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

Here's my life so far in PSR Tier 2...

I am dropped in a team where:
* 4 players walk into the enemy guns, doing less than 50 damage each, and die. Leaving us 8 vs 12.
* Another 3 players manage less than 200 damage each, and die. It's now 5 vs 10.
* I've engaged throughout, solo killed one enemy, done most damage to the other kill, etc. But now it's me plus one other guy, facing 9.
* The enemy deathball overwhelms us, with me having done the most* damage, and the highest* match score.

And my PSR goes down.



* I am not claiming that a damage total of 376 (in my unElited Mauler) is good. Nor that a match score of 213 is good, either. They're not. The issue is whether I was supposed to have been able to do more in the brief three minutes that the rest of the team was engaged in battle.

Exactely my point above: the two losing team players with > 200 damage and 1 kill each definitely earned an unchanged rating.

And that it easily derivable from the data:
- short match time
- MANY underperformer team players
- two players doing "okay" nonetheless
result (SHOULD be): no change in PSR

Should be painfully obvious to implement (just like tracking actually kill-contributing damage instead of "just damage").
But hey! PGI ...

Edited by Paigan, 24 September 2015 - 04:45 AM.

[Deathlike]

Appogee, on 24 September 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

This is indicative of my life today in PSR Tier 2...

I am dropped in a team where:
* 4 players just walk straight into the enemy guns, do <50 damage each, and die. It's now 8 vs 12.
* 3 other players manage less <200 damage each, and die. It's now 5 vs 10.
* I've engaged throughout. I've solo killed one enemy. I've Kill Most Damage to another.
* But now it's me and just one other guy, facing 9 enemies.
* The enemy deathball walks over the top of us, game over.

I've done the most* damage, and the highest* match score. But my PSR goes down.



* I am not suggesting that a damage total of 376 (in my unElited Mauler) is good. Nor that a match score of 213 is good, either. They're not.

The issue is whether I was supposed to be able to do more than 'best on the team' in the brief three minutes that the rest of the team was engaged in battle. Did I actually fail to live us to my PSR by being unable to turn around a match for a team where so few players are able to deliver much damage to the enemy?

You're just expected to splurge damage and not care about the consequences.

That is PSR, when it obviously uses bracketed match scores.

[Veritae]

It should be even easier. PSR should be based on each pilot's average match score, after a minimum 100-200 games. Before that, you sit in tier 4.

Beat your average this match? You advanced. Missed your average, you back slid. Looking at this number, pgi would be able to figure out a very simple curve to spread players out. The best players will continue to have high scores as they advance. Other players will eventually hit a wall once they move up, where their scores will start dropping due to increased competition. ALSO, this would prevent weaker players from benefiting too much from their team in group queue. Your team keeps winning, but you don't break 200? You're not gonna advance that way.

Pick whichever thresholds out of thin air that you want. Avg Match score of 450 up gets you tier 1. 350 up is tier 2, 250 up is tier 3, tier 4 is 100-249.9, and tier 5 is under 100. Boom. Done. Get better scores, regardless of wins or losses, and your rank improves. This will also have the advantage of sorting players to where they should be in a much shorter time span. My $0.02.