20 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

It seems to me that PGI is trying to get rit of of the timberwolf from play entirely, why can't they just leave the timberwolf alone and give it no quirks? If any mech in the game needs no quirks negative or positive it's the Timberwolf, because yes it is a powerful mech, but you don't need to make it any better with positive quirks or try to take away it's former glory with negative quirks ,because no matter what PGI does people will still use them. Just leave the timberwolf alone with no quirks at all.

[FupDup]

Min-max your omnipods harder.

[KursedVixen]

and what omni pods are those?

Edited by KursedVixen, 11 September 2015 - 09:15 PM.

[FupDup]

KursedVixen, on 11 September 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

and what omni pods are those?

I forgot all of them..I know it uses the TBR-S CT and RT, Prime LT. Whatever that ballistic RA is. Then it used one of those LA's that have only 1 hardpoint. I forgot which legs and head, but you can match them up to the quirks in the picture easily enough.

[SpiralFace]

The S seems to have been passed over in the balance pass.

Its the only torso with nothing put on it.

Something tells me this was an oversight.

As for the T-wolfs, they actually have a good variaty of positive and negative quirks, but the ones with negative quirks also tends to be the S (because of high number of hard points and JJ's) and the A (Probably because of high mounted hardpoints.)

Its pretty easy to build a fairly decent T-wolf, but it doesn't look like you can get away with both the A and the S side omnipods coupled with an energy CT hardpoint without paying for it.

Which makes sense I guess given how powerful that stuff is.

[Kmieciu]

Timber Wolf is the strongest mech in the game, bar none

[KursedVixen]

and that's why it needs no quirks at all any positive quirks make it OP and any negative quirks make it silly so the timberwolf should have no quirks at all in my opinion. In community warfare At 75 tones you can't have more than 2 in your drop deck and even then 1 if you want other good mechs so that in my opinion further proves that the timberwolf needs no quirks

Edited by KursedVixen, 12 September 2015 - 03:25 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Slap a target acquisition nerf on the thing and call it a day I say.

[Dimento Graven]

FupDup, on 11 September 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Min-max your omnipods harder.

Wow... Just wow... Imagine if IS 'mechs could tweak their own quirks at will...

[Livewyr]

Dimento Graven, on 12 September 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

Wow... Just wow... Imagine if IS 'mechs could tweak their own quirks at will...

Imagine if Clan mechs could change their engine/armor/structure....

Be careful what you wish for.

[TeKuS]

KursedVixen, on 11 September 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Just leave the timberwolf alone with no quirks at all.

+10000000000

[MooGod]

KursedVixen, on 11 September 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

It seems to me that PGI is trying to get rit of of the timberwolf from play entirely, why can't they just leave the timberwolf alone and give it no quirks? If any mech in the game needs no quirks negative or positive it's the Timberwolf, because yes it is a powerful mech, but you don't need to make it any better with positive quirks or try to take away it's former glory with negative quirks ,because no matter what PGI does people will still use them. Just leave the timberwolf alone with no quirks at all.

Are you a crazy person?

'Oh no, my mech is only one of the best in the game!' Yeah, I don't think you're going to stop seeing the timberwolf in games. Hey, maybe the Dire Wolf and Arctic Cheetah shouldn't suffer any nerfs either, they're working as intended and very well balanced.

[Dimento Graven]

Livewyr, on 12 September 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Imagine if Clan mechs could change their engine/armor/structure....

Be careful what you wish for.

I'm confused as to why that would be necessary when Clan 'mechs enjoy:

XL speed and weight advantages without the IS XL weakness of ST loss = instant death.
Most Clan weapons weigh less.
Most Clan weapons shoot farther.
Most Clan weapons require fewer crit slots.
Most Clan weapons hit harder.

Sure, you can have your 100% exchangeable engine/weapon/HS crit locations AS LONG AS you lose those other 5 advantages at the same time.

So... Y'know, you too should be careful what you wish for.

[C E Dwyer]

Livewyr, on 12 September 2015 - 11:49 AM, said:

Imagine if Clan mechs could change their engine/armor/structure....

Be careful what you wish for.

called IIC mech out this year..

[Lily from animove]

Dimento Graven, on 12 September 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

I'm confused as to why that would be necessary when Clan 'mechs enjoy:

XL speed and weight advantages without the IS XL weakness of ST loss = instant death.
Most Clan weapons weigh less.
Most Clan weapons shoot farther.
Most Clan weapons require fewer crit slots.
Most Clan weapons hit harder.

Sure, you can have your 100% exchangeable engine/weapon/HS crit locations AS LONG AS you lose those other 5 advantages at the same time.

So... Y'know, you too should be careful what you wish for.

ALL IS mechs can use FF,
ALL IS mechs can change engines
ALL IS mechs can use ES
most IS weapons run cooler
most IS wepaons have shrter beamduration, and RoF
ALL IS ballistics ate PPFLD.
ALL IS STD's survive both torso loss
ALL IS FF/ES islots s able to swap locations
ALL IS equipment is free to shift

see list can be made very biased if you filter for YOUR standpoint.and deny all the facts.

Cathy, on 12 September 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

called IIC mech out this year..

but those can't chooe quirks, because they aren't omnis.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 September 2015 - 01:16 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Lily, you poor poor unthinking Clan bigot:

Lily from animove, on 12 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

ALL IS mechs can use FF,

Sure, we can all use FF, though the weight savings vs crit slot loss is EXTREMELY questionable in most chassis. Sure lights use both endo and FF for weight savings and because they're not going to be able to equip much anyway so losing 28 slots for ES and FF isn't a big deal, HOWEVER, once you start getting into the upper end of mediums and beyond, if you need to save weight and you happen to have an extra 14 crit slots, you're using ES, and FF isn't even a factor.

Benefit, EXTREMELY minimal. NOW, if FF gave EXTRA protection vs. standard... Maybe this would be a factor, but no matter what, you can't load more armor than your maximum number, be it standard or FF.

Quote

ALL IS mechs can change engines

You're not paying attention. Obviously. Most clan 'mechs move at a pretty high rate of speed due to their XL's. The reason to switch engines is to merely save a ton or two, or to remove an XL engine in favor of a heavier, or slower, standard to increase survivability.

Quote

ALL IS mechs can use ES

Sure, sacrificing 14 crit slots to do it. The Nova, the Hell Bringer, the Maddog, the Summoner, the Direwolf, the Executioner, the Gargoyle, and the Warhawk have clan variants that don't have ES. Are these 'mechs hurting in anyway? Not really, every single one of them is capable of loading a high value alpha and firing it farther, and harder than their IS equivelents. The Clans not having this choice isn't hurting them one damn bit, and stop insulting everyone's intelligence in trying to suggest it does.

Quote

most IS weapons run cooler

Whoop-de-doo. So I might get ONE MORE alpha than a Clanner in before I risk overheating... The problem is I can't start firing and expect to hit you until your much closer, all the while, you're hitting me getting free shots in, AND AGAIN, typically, the Clan alpha is MUCH bigger than the IS alpha.

Quote

most IS wepaons have shrter beamduration, and RoF

Making an almost negligible difference in DPS, especially considering that, AGAIN, clan weapons hit harder and from farther away than the IS weapons.

Quote

ALL IS ballistics ate PPFLD.

Again, big whoop. It's great if you can boat 3 or more high firing rate ballistics. It is a valid tactic to just blind the enemy with ballistics flash to make them go away, HOWEVER, the Clan ballistics are still VERY viable, from the amount of ballistics vomit from the Clans, OBVIOUSLY the lack of PPFLD when you can load more than the typical IS doesn't matter that much.

Quote

ALL IS STD's survive both torso loss

Yeah sure, at the sacrifice of A LOT of weight, or speed, OR BOTH, to use them. You don't get this point do you? The fact that XL's weight SIGNIFICANTLY less than the standard allows the Clans to have SURVIVABILITY and SPEED and GREAT BIG ALPHAs. The IS equivalent only gets 2 out of 3, AT BEST, and more likely an unhappy compromise of survivability, slower speed, and smaller alpha than the clan equivalent.

Quote

ALL IS FF/ES islots s able to swap locations

Thank god, as our weapons and double heat sinks are one slot larger than the clan equivalents, weapon placement would be damn near impossible. For Clanners it's actually only a minor inconvenience.

Quote

ALL IS equipment is free to shift

See above...

Quote

see list can be made very biased if you filter for YOUR standpoint.and deny all the facts.

None of my lists deny facts, your list has some fairly spurious minor inconveniences. Given the fact that an IS 'mech has to produce AT LEAST 10% more damage than its Clanner equivalent JUST TO BREAK EVEN, shows that there's something wrong with balance if Clan vs. IS is limited to 12v12.

[KursedVixen]

Dimento Graven, on 12 September 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Lily, you poor poor unthinking Clan bigot:
Sure, we can all use FF, though the weight savings vs crit slot loss is EXTREMELY questionable in most chassis. Sure lights use both endo and FF for weight savings and because they're not going to be able to equip much anyway so losing 28 slots for ES and FF isn't a big deal, HOWEVER, once you start getting into the upper end of mediums and beyond, if you need to save weight and you happen to have an extra 14 crit slots, you're using ES, and FF isn't even a factor.

Benefit, EXTREMELY minimal. NOW, if FF gave EXTRA protection vs. standard... Maybe this would be a factor, but no matter what, you can't load more armor than your maximum number, be it standard or FF.

You're not paying attention. Obviously. Most clan 'mechs move at a pretty high rate of speed due to their XL's. The reason to switch engines is to merely save a ton or two, or to remove an XL engine in favor of a heavier, or slower, standard to increase survivability.

Sure, sacrificing 14 crit slots to do it. The Nova, the Hell Bringer, the Maddog, the Summoner, the Direwolf, the Executioner, the Gargoyle, and the Warhawk have clan variants that don't have ES. Are these 'mechs hurting in anyway? Not really, every single one of them is capable of loading a high value alpha and firing it farther, and harder than their IS equivelents. The Clans not having this choice isn't hurting them one damn bit, and stop insulting everyone's intelligence in trying to suggest it does.
Whoop-de-doo. So I might get ONE MORE alpha than a Clanner in before I risk overheating... The problem is I can't start firing and expect to hit you until your much closer, all the while, you're hitting me getting free shots in, AND AGAIN, typically, the Clan alpha is MUCH bigger than the IS alpha.
Making an almost negligible difference in DPS, especially considering that, AGAIN, clan weapons hit harder and from farther away than the IS weapons.
Again, big whoop. It's great if you can boat 3 or more high firing rate ballistics. It is a valid tactic to just blind the enemy with ballistics flash to make them go away, HOWEVER, the Clan ballistics are still VERY viable, from the amount of ballistics vomit from the Clans, OBVIOUSLY the lack of PPFLD when you can load more than the typical IS doesn't matter that much.
Yeah sure, at the sacrifice of A LOT of weight, or speed, OR BOTH, to use them. You don't get this point do you? The fact that XL's weight SIGNIFICANTLY less than the standard allows the Clans to have SURVIVABILITY and SPEED and GREAT BIG ALPHAs. The IS equivalent only gets 2 out of 3, AT BEST, and more likely an unhappy compromise of survivability, slower speed, and smaller alpha than the clan equivalent.
Thank god, as our weapons and double heat sinks are one slot larger than the clan equivalents, weapon placement would be damn near impossible. For Clanners it's actually only a minor inconvenience.
See above...

None of my lists deny facts, your list has some fairly spurious minor inconveniences. Given the fact that an IS 'mech has to produce AT LEAST 10% more damage than its Clanner equivalent JUST TO BREAK EVEN, shows that there's something wrong with balance if Clan vs. IS is limited to 12v12.

I fully agree with you that the balance is wrong, Because instead of focusing on making IS mechs better with quirks they are focusing on making Clan mechs worse with quirks, the problem is it's not working. This is another reason why I think the Timberwolf should have no quirks at all, because it doeesn't need them, Is mechs need the quirks much much more than any clan mech, but instead of trying to make IS mechs better their focusiing on making clan mechs worse.

[Steel Raven]

Lily from animove, on 12 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

but those can't chooe quirks, because they aren't omnis.

You can't have it both ways,

[KursedVixen]

Dimento Graven, on 12 September 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

I'm confused as to why that would be necessary when Clan 'mechs enjoy:

XL speed and weight advantages without the IS XL weakness of ST loss = instant death.
Most Clan weapons weigh less.
Most Clan weapons shoot farther.
Most Clan weapons require fewer crit slots.
Most Clan weapons hit harder.

Sure, you can have your 100% exchangeable engine/weapon/HS crit locations AS LONG AS you lose those other 5 advantages at the same time.

So... Y'know, you too should be careful what you wish for.

I fully agreed with this ,what i didn't agree with was the laser nerfs on the stormie and timberwolf. The timing of that patch was horrible, because our autocannons weren't that great.

[ShinobiHunter]

KursedVixen, on 12 September 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

I fully agree with you that the balance is wrong, Because instead of focusing on making IS mechs better with quirks they are focusing on making Clan mechs worse with quirks, the problem is it's not working. This is another reason why I think the Timberwolf should have no quirks at all, because it doeesn't need them, Is mechs need the quirks much much more than any clan mech, but instead of trying to make IS mechs better their focusiing on making clan mechs worse.

Part of the problem with that is TBR is so much better than other clan mechs too. It's straight up better than any other clan heavy and probably better in every way than several clan assaults. Either you buff every other mech in the game (the "quirkening" they're trying to get rid of) or you nerf the few that stand head and shoulders above the rest. Or I guess just leave them significantly better than the rest...