7 replies to this topic

[Glaive-]

So, as I'm sure everyone is aware of at this point, the Shadowcat has received some severe negative quirks as a result of this latest balance pass.

When I first saw these changes, I was seriously perplexed at how PGI could even think about nerfing the Shadowcat, since it is basically the worst Clan medium in the game right now.

However, after reading about their evaluation process (ty for the post Paul), I suppose I can see how they came to the current quirk sets for the Scat.


I believe what happened was that they placed the Shadowcat and the Ice Ferret next to each other and compared the two, and evidently came up with the following:

• Shadowcat:17 tons of pod space (~16 tons at max armor) VS Ice Ferret: 9.5 tons pod space (9 tons at max armor)
  
• Shadowcat's 6JJs VS Ice Ferret's 0JJs
  
• Shadowcat has MASC while the Ice Ferret does not
  
• Shadowcat has ECM while the Ice Ferret does not
  
• Shadowcat has "high-mounted" hardpoints while the Ice Ferret does not

With the Ice Ferret's only apparent advantages being its XL360 engine (vs the Scat's XL270), and it's larger array of energy hard points (max of 5 vs the Scat's max of 3)



So clearly the Shadowcat is miles better then the Ice Ferret, right? According to PGI's new method of evaluation, the Shadowcat is superior to the Ice Ferret in nearly every way.


However, anyone who has actually piloted both mechs a reasonable amount will know that things are very much the opposite.


For starters, the Shadowcat has terrible hitboxes, and while I wouldn't call the Ice Ferret's hitboxes that amazing either, the Ferret certainly has the upper hand in this area. I've gotten legged to death in Shadowcats far FAR more often than in my Ice Ferrets (and not because I overuse MASC or am sloppy with my JJs).

Furthermore, the Shadowcat's high-mounted hardpoints aren't nearly the amazing advantage that one would expect, mainly because it can't mount the number or tonnage of weapons to make meaningful use of the higher locations. They feel more like a convenience rather than a significant advantage, and the mech is so flat that you actually need to reveal a pretty significant portion of the torso to shoot over a ridge.

And to top it all off, MASC on the Shadowcat just sucks. Sure the acel/decel bonuses are nice, but they absolutely are NOT worth the two tons, which would be better spent on XL300 (would allow for slightly higher top speed without the reticule shake and limited usage). MASC can't help the Shadowcat evade enemies or chase down lights, and in general it can't even help with dodging fire.


In no way does the Shadowcat deserve the negative quirks, especially to the torso twist range. The mech already gets limited arm twist ranges for some arbitrary reason, so why limit the torso range as well? (seriously why can't I mount lower arm actuators on the right arms? And why are some of the left arms limited, for that matter? This is an OMNI MECH for crying out loud.)

Anyway, sorry for the rambling, kinda rant'y post. The entire state of the Shadowcat in MWO greatly irritates me, as it has always been one of my favorite mechs. :S

Edited by armyunit, 12 September 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Midax]

They undervalue number of hardpoints and overvalue masc. Sadly masc is gimped because they are worried about what happens when IS mechs get it.

[KursedVixen]

And ontop of that their creating the problem by nerfing clan mechs instead of buffing IS mechs.

[Livewyr]

Yeah.. for the life of me, I cannot recall any threads or posts whatsoever about the SHC being Overpowered and needing a nerf.

As a matter of fact, all of the posts I remember complained that it was good at nothing. Not even combat.

[SpiralFace]

Midax, on 12 September 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

They undervalue number of hardpoints and overvalue masc. Sadly masc is gimped because they are worried about what happens when IS mechs get it.

I'm not all too sure on that one. I think the thing that makes things difficult is that the shadow cat has NOTHING but high weapon mounts.

PGI has said before that weapon PLACEMENT now matters in assessing its value. So while the shadow cat has a low amount of hard points, its hard points are probably VALUED more then all of the knuckle dragging alternatives that the clans have.

[KursedVixen]

Yet the shadowcat has less armor than a comparable medium (cept the ice ferret)

[Wibbledtodeath]

Shadow cat is not a bad sniper- ECM + JJ help. But truly this is the only role it has been in any way successful with for me. It just has few hard points, not a great deal of tonnage to max out the hard points it does have and is a relatively easy target (re lack of speed and profile).

[Lily from animove]

KursedVixen, on 12 September 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

And ontop of that their creating the problem by nerfing clan mechs instead of buffing IS mechs.

Well the issue is that PGI does not consider builds. A possible CERSL differs a lot from a CERPPC. yet both gett he same "quirks" when chosen with a 1E pod. Thats an issue.

When I use 2PPC's to Jumpsnipe, I do not care about mobility and scan time and such.

pop, see mech, shoot disappear. All mobility (yaw angle/rates) and info quirks do not matter.

But using this 1E in conjunction with others to probably come with a 4CERML config, those quirks have a devasting effect on this mechs ability to successfully play brawlers or skirmishers, especially when trying to counter lights.

PGI's balance idea is again very biasing towards some loadouts over others.