77 replies to this topic

[LookUpGaming]

Jman5, on 13 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

I'll admit there are a few tricky spawns. However, 9 times out of 10 the bulk of the group is not moving too fast, the assault player in question is moving too slowly. Idling at the start, running the wrong way then U-turning, stopping for no reason, taking round-about ways instead of beelining toward the team. I see it all the time when I'm in my direwolf. Faster Assaults that spawn in my lance screwing around and then pretending they did nothing wrong despite the fact that I'm leading the pack at 53 kph.



You really think people are moving hard to kill steal? They're doing it to pressure the other team before they can form a firing line facing their position. They're doing it to catch people who are out of position and take out stray opponents who were screwing around instead of moving efficiently. They're doing it to get to a prime trading position. In short they're trying to win and the best way is to try to snag a few easy kills at the start. Timing is absolutely critical in this game and when I see people lollygagging in the back or my fast guys running backward at the start to "escort me" they're completely blowing the opening move. There are great opportunities in the early game to make big plays because a lot of people are complacent, disorganized or don't know the map as well. Wasting it because some assault doesn't want you to move until he says GO is irresponsible.

If this is a problem for you, then yes you should either play a faster mech, or play group queue with like-minded people.

Jman5, on 13 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

I'll admit there are a few tricky spawns. However, 9 times out of 10 the bulk of the group is not moving too fast, the assault player in question is moving too slowly. Idling at the start, running the wrong way then U-turning, stopping for no reason, taking round-about ways instead of beelining toward the team. I see it all the time when I'm in my direwolf. Faster Assaults that spawn in my lance screwing around and then pretending they did nothing wrong despite the fact that I'm leading the pack at 53 kph.



You really think people are moving hard to kill steal? They're doing it to pressure the other team before they can form a firing line facing their position. They're doing it to catch people who are out of position and take out stray opponents who were screwing around instead of moving efficiently. They're doing it to get to a prime trading position. In short they're trying to win and the best way is to try to snag a few easy kills at the start. Timing is absolutely critical in this game and when I see people lollygagging in the back or my fast guys running backward at the start to "escort me" they're completely blowing the opening move. There are great opportunities in the early game to make big plays because a lot of people are complacent, disorganized or don't know the map as well. Wasting it because some assault doesn't want you to move until he says GO is irresponsible.

If this is a problem for you, then yes you should either play a faster mech, or play group queue with like-minded people.

So much this. Take Caustic Valley. Epitome of NASCAR. If I am in a medium or light I generally rush forward and try to catch the enemys tail before they can get going. Get a kill at the beginning and your team is that much more likely to win.

Had a game just the other day in PUG queue where our fast mechs got out in front and punished their tail. Took out heavy and an assault. By that time they were pressuring our tail. Some tool in an Atlas started crying about getting overrun, so I asked everyone to turn around and reverse into them. Most did. Those of us at the front cut thru the crater and absolutely crushed them. Game was a 12-0 stomping.

Time and Place. Just communicate. If you are playing in pug queue you are going to get the special snowflakes who just gonna do what they want. But you do come across some players that will work togeather.

[patataman]

I've noticed that many times is better if the request comes from outside of the assault lance.

"Form up on the assault lance, they are in D3" (while in a light or med)

This gives the impression that one lance is already joining the assaults, and the third lance usually falls into formation fearing to be left behind. If you are the fastest in the lance, start moving to the assaults while giving the instructions, most of the time it works.
+1 to pug cohesion if your mech carries ECM.

Edited by patataman, 15 September 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[Balder Shadow]

Kiiyor, on 13 September 2015 - 05:30 PM, said:

+1

Also, I would also humbly suggest that those other assault pilots (and you probably know who you are!)... actually make an effort to move out of spawn. Sometimes they can be their own worst enemy.

I have no issue with those intredpid DireWolf and KingCrab pilots that ram their throttles to full the minute their armour clad boots touch the earth - they understand the limitations of their chassis and try to address them.

I DO have issue with those assault pilots who potter around spawn for the first minute, or pick a trajectory that in no way matches that of the rest of the team, or sit AFK for the first two minutes of the fight, or spend the first half of a really mobile fight stopping every 5 seconds to flail with lasers at targets 700m away - only to realize their team is 6 grid squares away - before complaining LOUDLY over chat about being abandoned.

They weren't abandoned - they abandoned their team by dicking around.

I've been in hundreds of matches where I've spawned in the assault lance, in an assault, and have managed to keep up with the group just fine while other members of my lance admire the scenery or treat maintaining a firing line as being more important than staying with the group.

Granted, there are *often* times where assaults are left in the dust, but in most instances, it could have been avoided.

I know it files in the face of piloting a walking turret, but sometimes you have to prioritize movement over shooting everything you see.

As a light pilot I could not agree more. If you're an assault pilot and I come to cover you with ECM and you stop moving , or have not started to move, I'm gone. I'm not going to babysit anyone that stops on his way to the battle and I'll laugh while that enemy ACH uses you for a chew toy and I hear you screaming and rage quit.

That said you carry hard I'll cover you and continue to do so until we win or we're dead.

And on certain maps I'm headed straight for the enemy assaults looking for those that didn't hit the ground running, or did but installed the smallest engine with the biggest guns.

IMO you play an assault in the solo queue you are throwing the dice. And if you cannot stand getting left behind pick a faster mech.

[Lorian Sunrider]

I run an escort service pretty much every game in every mech. I ask for nothing in return.

Its a great feeling when you stay back to make sure your Dire or Atlas (or Maulers lately) makes it to the fight and they thank you.

That being said if I'm in anything with jumpets you are my hurdle to jump over while I'm bored moving at 1/3 my possible speed in a light mech.

Also, I would add the new Forest Colony, there is one spawn that is just so far back for any mechs going under 60 to hope to reach the team if they don't wait.

[LORD ORION]

PPO Kuro, on 13 September 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

A lot of the solo games I play with an assault mech is the same. The whole team rushing forward leaving the assaults behind. Then when you ask people to wait for the assaults the general response is: Get a faster mech....ffs I'm in an assault. Or I should say, an Innersphere assault mech. 50-56 is a fast as it's going to be without being under gunned.

So how do people think about this? Should I just stop using assaults and be a egocentric rushing btard just trying to get to the front asap so I can stealkill some ones work? Should I just chill out and don't let it get to me.

I am not your personal escort, and babysitting you is a chore.

Stop being rude and pilot an assault that can keep up.

[Evan20k]

As an assault pilot, I'd rather have my mediums and heavies take initiative to keep the other team off balance. It's much easier to do your job as a fatty when you don't have to push into an enemy firing line. A single light as an escort is all we need, usually.

[Xmith]

First of all, forget about typing anything in chat. Use voip.

An assault pilot should call for help as soon as they notice that they are taking rear armor damage. The sooner the call goes out for help, the better the chance of the assault pilot's survival. Some assaults wait too long to call for help Team members will always fall back to help. The assault pilot just has to make the call using voip. The majority of assaults will stop and face the enemy but will never let the team know that there is a light on their back. So, use voip and let your team know you are being ran down by smaller mechs.

[Colin Thrase]

Speaking as someone who plays both light and assault mechs, I really dislike the idea of everyone forming up on the assaults. Deathball strategy has it's perks (and it's the easiest for a PUG to understand), but there are too many drawbacks:

• Mechs in the rear of the group have a difficult time lining up a shot at opponents, because the guys in the front are shuffling back and forth to spread damage. This results in either lost opportunity shots (friendly is in your way) or friendly damage (they just shoot through the friendlies... "get out of my way" - heck I've even seen forum posts where players boast that if you get in their way, they'll just keep firing because it's your fault)
  
• Death-balls are too much of a target for Artillery & Air Strikes. I've taken advantage of this when opposing a deathball, and once even got 2 kills from a single artillery strike.
  
• When someone shoots at your group, a missed shot may still hit another guy behind and close by the first. You have to have some space to avoid that.
  
• When one of you launch a UAV, it's basically a beacon to see where your entire team is, rather than broadcasting your opponents' positions

But rather than just complain, let me offer some alternatives:

• Lights: by all means run ahead, and scout for enemies (launch the UAV when near them - even if it gets shot down immediately, your entire team will see all the lasers shooting at it and that lets the assaults & heavies know where to go)
  
• Lights: Take advantage of undefended base caps - I've seen many games end due to a base capture, and you always have people complaining, but the fact of the matter is that base-capping is an objective in 2 of 3 game modes. If they don't like that objective, they could have opted out. Capping also has the chance of splitting your enemies forces - several of their team may decide to go back to base to get that ONE light that's capping and subsequently just runs for cover.
  
• Lights: Play squirrel (grab some aggro from enemy mechs, then lead them back to your assault). Without fail you will always get at least one guy that chases you right into the alpha strikes of your friendly assault mechs.
  
• Assaults: make use of the time your lights buy you with the above tactics to position yourselves for incoming mechs. Back into corners of buildings or landscapes so that lights can't get behind you easily, and get as long/wide of a forward firing arc as you can in order to intercept the opponents when the lights bring them back.
  
• Assaults: use your ER Large, PPC and AC weapons to pick apart your opponents' mechs while they play ballet with your lights. They don't dare head straight towards you or the lights will core them from behind, and as long as they're moving in circles you have a good chance at a back shot (as you look at them, one "side" of the circle they run is a back-shot, and a great target for all the laser vomit people carry).

That being said, I think your mediums/heavies should be nearby but not too close to your assaults - to help fend off any lights that are trying to use some of the above tactics. Many medium mechs are fast enough to play the light game, and many heavies are well equipped enough to augment the assaults, but for the most part they shouldn't be too focused on just one end of the spectrum.

[AssaultPig]

99% of the time in my experience, when assaults are 'left behind' it's the result of them picking a back line spot and sitting there, rather than trying to lead the charge. Assaults need to be up front trading their armor; if what you wanted to do was play the safe hideypokey game, do it in a light or medium.

ed: like, as an assault, if you're leading the charge people will tend to form on you naturally. If you're just sitting in the back they'll tend to run off, because who wants to babysit some sniper or lrm boat?

Edited by AssaultPig, 15 September 2015 - 03:30 PM.

[CobaltRobot]

I'm gonna add my penny's worth in here, because I have personally piloted both lights and assaults and really love them both. I'm going to apologise now for necro-ing a half-year old thread, but I really want to get this off my chest.

Everyone just needs to calm down and appreciate each other.

It's not the lights' job to protect the assaults - that's what mediums are for. Lights are the scouts, skirmishers, raiders, etc., going for the lone assaults on the enemy team and doing all the other light things that have been mentioned before.

To expect the lights to turn around and help out an assault is a bit poor - although if they are nearby then sure.

To the assault pilots, you are indeed slow, so you need to take the advice already mentioned and hit the ground running. You should be moving nothing less than 60 if at all possible, and don't mess around for the first minute - head straight for the front line. The clue's in the name - assault.

BUT to light/medium/fast heavy pilots you are going to have a hard time getting through the armour on the enemy assaults without using the firepower and armour of your own assaults, so good luck on going it alone.

What is needed is a support mentality. Anything above a light should be grouped near the assaults, not necessarily moving at their pace but being near enough to give help if they are engaged. Suppose you are running a medium but decide to 'buddy' with an assault - anything coming up against the two of you are not going to shoot at you, so he's giving you a massive fire shield. In return you keep any lights off him and - better still - equip ECM to ward off the missile rain that is so deadly to heavies as they can't manoeuvre out the way. It's a win-win.

Last of all, to this person:

LORD ORION, on 15 September 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

I am not your personal escort, and babysitting you is a chore.

Stop being rude and pilot an assault that can keep up.

I'm pretty sure that the max an assault can go is 64 so 'fast' isn't going to happen. You might try working with the assaults instead of running off without them.

Edited by Stormer9000, 24 June 2016 - 01:07 AM.

[Triordinant]

PPO Kuro, on 13 September 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

So how do people think about this? Should I just stop using assaults and be a egocentric rushing btard just trying to get to the front asap so I can stealkill some ones work? Should I just chill out and don't let it get to me.

A tiny bit of advice: check the Battle Grid during the countdown to the match start and decide where you're going before it starts. When the countdown gets to 8 seconds put your finger on the W key. That way even if only a few people (or none) slow down for you or link up with you, you can minimize how far behind you are. In an Assault, every second counts.

Oh, and if you Alt+Tab and surf the Web, read the Forums or check your email while waiting for the match to start and end up starting late you deserve to die.

[Aerei]

Most PUG players can't see the big picture. Assault mechs are best in the front because they're a big body that's good for soaking up damage so the rest of the team can throw in their damage unmolested. Almost every successful push streamed in the tournament has an assault leading it, and most of the failed ones have someone else leading the charge and dying.

Of course, in PUGs, part of the problem is that there's no real way to tell if your friendly assault is competently armed, or something like the infamous LRM Atlas. There are assaults that hide behind medium mechs, even after everyone has more or less stopped moving.

Now all that said, an Assault mech is a vital tool, and a good assault pilot is even more important. Staying close to them is in your benefit. If nothing else, the enemy will most likely shoot them instead of you.

[KHETTI]

Apparently Nascar is proven & approved underhive tactic, who needs assaults anyway!.

[Mole]

I dunno man. Maybe I'm doing something right but I thought this was going to be an issue for me back when all I ever piloted was lights, mediums, and fast heavies. Then I finally broke myself in to the world of assaults. I've been keeping up with my team just fine in my Atlas and Mauler, which are both very slow. Generally I tend to pick a location that I believe my team will go and start gunning it as fast as I can to that location. Most the time I'm right and my destination is where my team ends up congregating. Only time I get left behind is when we are NASCARing so hard that the enemy is crumpling like used paper as we smash into them from behind and the enemy 'mechs are all dead by the time I can get in a shot, in which case we've won, I just didn't get to personally participate in any meaningful way. Only time I've ever been caught out by myself in my Atlas or Mauler is when I have had poor situational awareness for long enough to not realize my team was on the move and failed to move with them until they were all gone.

Edited by Mole, 24 June 2016 - 05:08 AM.

[Seddrik]

Awesome 8Q
52 Alpha, lasers.
60.8 speed, standard engine, basic but not elite yet.

Repeatedly takes one or 2 hits from one mech and is instra stripped halving my firepower or more. (Which shows how ridiculous the firepower to armor ratio is anymore).

Whether I am in the lineup with others or not does not seem to matter. Though, 60+ is minimal speed to keep up with the back end of the group. In pugs you must always assume they will run away ("reposition") without telling you. Bout the time you get there to support, expect to be left again.

Pugging is hard because you generally do not have real coordination or cooperation.

Edited by Seddrik, 24 June 2016 - 05:21 AM.

[MerryIguana]

Klatu.. Verata.. N.. Necktie?

[Idealsuspect]

PPO Kuro, on 13 September 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

A lot of the solo games I play with an assault mech is the same. The whole team rushing forward leaving the assaults behind. Then when you ask people to wait for the assaults the general response is: Get a faster mech....ffs I'm in an assault. Or I should say, an Innersphere assault mech. 50-56 is a fast as it's going to be without being under gunned.

So how do people think about this? Should I just stop using assaults and be a egocentric rushing btard just trying to get to the front asap so I can stealkill some ones work? Should I just chill out and don't let it get to me.

Stop use slow mech, stop try to follow the nascar train OR like the next quote say LEAD YOUR TEAM ( "assaut class mech" not "turret class mech" ) .. ^^

AssaultPig, on 15 September 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

99% of the time in my experience, when assaults are 'left behind' it's the result of them picking a back line spot and sitting there, rather than trying to lead the charge. Assaults need to be up front trading their armor; if what you wanted to do was play the safe hideypokey game, do it in a light or medium.

ed: like, as an assault, if you're leading the charge people will tend to form on you naturally. If you're just sitting in the back they'll tend to run off, because who wants to babysit some sniper or lrm boat?

Exactly !

Stormer9000, on 24 June 2016 - 01:05 AM, said:

I'm going to apologise now for necro-ing a half-year old thread, but I really want to get this off my chest.

Ahhh i am zombified but ty for yours apologies ^^

Edited by Idealsuspect, 24 June 2016 - 06:46 AM.