21 replies to this topic

[Jungle Rhino]

Seeing as it is open season on how to fix the game here we go:

Scrap ghost heat - it makes no sense and is completely baffling to new players

Implement weapon size classes - it has been done before with MW mercenaries and I think it makes a lot of sense and would give PGI great control over chassis balance and differentiation.

e.g.
Energy size classes:
Small - ML, MPL, SML
Medium - LL, LPL, ERLL
Large - PPC, ERPPC

Ballistic size classes:
Small - MG, AC2
Medium - AC5, UAC5
Large - Gauss, AC10, AC20

Missle size classes:
Small - SRM2, SRM4, SSRM2, LRM5
Medium - SRM6, LRM10
Large - LRM15, LRM20

Each weapon hardpoint on a mech gets a size class.

e.g.

CTPL-K2
2x Large Energy
2x Small Energy
2x Small Ballistic

AWS-8Q
3x Large Energy
4x Small Energy

JM6-DD
4x Medium Ballsitic
2x Small Ballistic
2x Small Energy

Implementing this system would put the 6x PPC stalker and 2x AC20 JM to bed as it would simply be impossible to fit. If you want double AC20s - bring a King Crab!

Anyway that's my helpful suggestion that will get buried in the MWO forums for all eternity

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Yeah that have sense, but just see yelling crowd; we want customization is the most fun part in the game, so we can run same build on all meks.

Its probably too late for them to do something in sort of size HP.

But hard point located quirks probably is more realistic and overall effect would be somehow similar.

[Augustus Martelus II]

I like this....i did a post about something like this a year something ago....would need to find it back. Had even made a excell thing to show it

But people say it was restrictive....but a lot did like the idea....

It mech every mech unique....because right now they nearly look all the same ex: Jaegermechs, stalkers and etc...

oh did find it haha it was only an idea with the current system....without scraping everything!

My system allow 2 ac/20 jaegger 1 one variant only....but still they are pretty fragile, not fast and xl... so if they are not careful....they die fast. Assault fit that role better.

http://mwomercs.com/...ons-hardpoints/

Edited by Augustus Martelus II, 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM.

[Suko]

Dozens of us made this suggestion (essentially the same thing MW4 did) before the game even went closed beta.

It's way too late now to make such a drastic change to the game. If you thought the tryhard's reaction to Russ' post suggesting capping groups at 4 people was bad? Then imagine the flames this kind of change would make.

Edited by Suko, 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

A lot of us were asking for this back in early BETA. It didn't happen then, it's not going to happen now.

People just want to use the same builds on all of their mechs, i guess...
Too much customization limits imagination.

[Khobai]

what exactly does this fix?

it doesnt stop boating... so whats the point?

All it does is kick customization in the ass with no real benefit. The mechs that can boat will still be better than the mechs that cant boat. So youve solved absolutely nothing pertaining to game balance.

Quote

People just want to use the same builds on all of their mechs, i guess...

Weapon quirks got people to experiment with different weapons. Weapon quirks were highly successful at differentiating mechs and promoting weapon diversity UNTIL PGI went totally off the rails with weapon quirks trying to use them as a way to balance IS vs Clans. When all they needed to do was leave the quirks alone and nerf the overpowered clan lasers. The overpowered clan weapons have been the problem right along.

IMO they just need to bring weapon quirks back (in a weaker form) and nerf clan lasers.

Edited by Khobai, 13 September 2015 - 08:54 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

implying boom cicadas and boom jagers or 6 ppc stalkers are a threat in any way anymore

[Random Carnage]

Khobai, on 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

what exactly does this fix?

it doesnt stop boating... so whats the point?

"What you talkin 'bout Willis !?..."

[Johnny Z]

Awsome idea. Period.

AC/10 medium sized maybe though looking quickly.

[kapusta11]

Some chassis come with all necessary hardpoint "sizes" by default so it will fix nothing.

[kesmai]

I say yes. Won't happen though. Because the world would go aflame and end of all things and such.

[Johnny Z]

Khobai, on 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

what exactly does this fix?

it doesnt stop boating... so whats the point?

All it does is kick customization in the ass with no real benefit. The mechs that can boat will still be better than the mechs that cant boat. So youve solved absolutely nothing pertaining to game balance.



Weapon quirks got people to experiment with different weapons. Weapon quirks were highly successful at differentiating mechs and promoting weapon diversity UNTIL PGI went totally off the rails with weapon quirks trying to use them as a way to balance IS vs Clans. When all they needed to do was leave the quirks alone and nerf the overpowered clan lasers. The overpowered clan weapons have been the problem right along.

IMO they just need to bring weapon quirks back (in a weaker form) and nerf clan lasers.

+1 for most of this.

I like the sized mounts for the sim though. Maybe as a balancing factor as well.

[bad arcade kitty]

Khobai, on 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

what exactly does this fix?

it doesnt stop boating... so whats the point?

and boating should be stopped why? muh lore reasons?

[Yokaiko]

bad arcade kitty, on 14 September 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:

and boating should be stopped why? muh lore reasons?

Do I need to run down a list of stock boats ....again.

[El Bandito]

I support sized hardpoints. Been supporting it since 2012.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 September 2015 - 02:15 AM.

[Jungle Rhino]

Khobai, on 13 September 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

what exactly does this fix?

it doesnt stop boating... so whats the point?

It does stop extreme boating - there aren't that many mechs that pack more than 2 of the 'large' category weapons. It also enshrines the uniqueness of mechs like the Panther, Hunchback, or Awesome. Most importantly it is reasonably intuitive and makes sense.

Not saying this is the only thing to do. But I think it would be a good start to begin differentiating mechs.

Re. boating lasers are the primary offender due to small slot requirements and light weight - obviously their limiting factor (heat) is not behaving as intended. That is due in no small part to the ridiculous pilot skills giving +20% to capacity and cooling speed + the coolant module that was 'never going to be in the game'. That is a separate issue that also needs to be addressed.

Bring the simulation up to speed first then use quirks to fine tune. Right now PGI is leaning far too heavily on the quirk system to try and provide differentiation and balance.

[Yokaiko]

Jungle Rhino, on 14 September 2015 - 02:39 AM, said:

It does stop extreme boating - there aren't that many mechs that pack more than 2 of the 'large' category weapons.

How many?

Are we playing the same game

[Otto Cannon]

The reason this was never done is that it wouldn't have any good effects. It would not only reduce the number of builds each mech could run, but also reduce the number of mechs that people would use.

Why would you want to play with the same mechs running the same builds all the time? If you think it's bad now then why make it worse?

You can't stop boating even if you hate it. All you could do is make people boat with the same mech instead of different ones.

People use the gaussapult as an example of why we should have sized hardpoints, but ignore the fact that it was a weapon balance issue that caused them. The gauss was simply much better than the ppc, and the mech had no quirks to make energy weapons more attractive. Not to mention that there's no real reason it shouldn't have gauss in those massive long side torsos anyway and it sacrificed everything to have them.

I support purists having a stock mech game mode, but many stock designs were awful for this game and forcing them on everyone with sized hardpoints would kill the game.

[Tangelis]

Sized hard points would solve certain problems, but it would be kind of one sided wouldn't it?

I mean sure it would control some boating issues, but with clan Omni pods and how they work, something like this would cripple IS mechs while only being a slight annoyance to clans.

[Khobai]

Quote

It does stop extreme boating

no it doesnt. the vast majority of extreme boating is done with small weapons, not large weapons.

theres already in-game limits on how many PPC/gauss rifles/clanlargelasers you can reasonably fire at the same time (max 2-3) so theres no need to limit large weapons even further.

again, adding sized hardpoints and restricting customization makes absolutely no sense, especially since it fails to address any real balance problems.

Quote

and boating should be stopped why? muh lore reasons?

nope. lore reasons have nothing to do with it. boating and alphastriking are both part of lore.

but boating is a major source of imbalance in mwo. Because it allows players to equip multiple weapons with similar characteristics and fire them simultaneously into the same location of an enemy mech.

battletech armor values were set where they were because the hit locations were RANDOM and damage was distributed more or less evenly across all locations. But when you introduce precise aiming and perfect convergence it completely imbalances those armor values. Even doubling them wasnt enough to keep up. Thats why mech armor feels like its made of wet tissue paper.

theres really only two ways to fix the problem: weaponside or armorside. either make weapons spread damage around more or make torso sections redirect a percentage of damage outward towards undestroyed arms/legs.

Edited by Khobai, 14 September 2015 - 10:27 AM.