205 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

Ok let me summarize the video

Don’t have a cow or jump off the deep end, this is only the beginning of testing

My own personal opinion


Paul is asking to go gray early

I would recommend a by weight class on the first balance pass

[Johnny Z]

First of all lets not be rude to people that are in a difficult position and cant fire back.

Second, I think all the time spent trying to balance the two techs shouldnt be thrown out. On the live servers the balance isnt to bad and where there are problems they could try address those. Why start over?

This is my first reaction to this rebalance on the ts. That reaction is sticking over time to.

Second reaction is other than the sensors and lack of weapon quirks not many problems were addressed specifically the Omni XL vrs Is XL.

Last of all, I seen two good things on the ts and that was the strcture increases to the Atlas and the entirely new game play feature of sensors warfare.

[bad arcade kitty]

XX Sulla XX, on 13 September 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Small weapons quirks without a balance to top Clan weapons are not going to work.

20% quirks are not really small

imo the limit should be somehow around 30% and if it's not enough that mech should get armor and mobility quirks, again not a ridiculous amount of it

and there should be very few negative quirks

[Deathlike]

I'm already @ minute 5, and that has yet to explain why the Mist Lynx got ZILCH for heat quirks, since it actually in the same terribad boat as the Adder, Kitfox, or Arctic Cheetah (not that the Arctic Cheetah needed it, but yay @ forgetting mechs that have to compensate for the trudub loss).

I'm sure to have more comments following, but I have to listen to the damned thing in its entirety first.

[Vlad Ward]

Deathlike, on 13 September 2015 - 11:35 PM, said:

I'm already @ minute 5, and that has yet to explain why the Mist Lynx got ZILCH for heat quirks, since it actually in the same terribad boat as the Adder, Kitfox, or Arctic Cheetah (not that the Arctic Cheetah needed it, but yay @ forgetting mechs that have to compensate for the trudub loss).

I'm sure to have more comments following, but I have to listen to the damned thing in its entirety first.

He mentioned that the only Mechs that retained heat quirks were the ones who had an engine cap below 250 and were unable to receive 10 TrueDubs.

[MischiefSC]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

Was headed over here to post! Thanks @Hans! Hope that clears the air of a few things, as I felt future communication needs to be very clear and overall better to help ease players expectations!

There's a history of putting stuff on PTS, testing it, 'getting feedback' and then pushing it live with little/any changes. There was some fear that it would go in before weapon rebalance was done.

That's all been addressed, so everyone is happy.

[Duke Nedo]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

This is incorrect. As I mentioned in the video, I stated you had to whipe clean current weapon quirks to get a better understanding. Also I mentioned that adding small weapon quirks here and there could help distinguish a variant from one another and chassis v chassis. But even then, you would not see massive 20-50% quirks like how you do with weapon quirks, but small ones instead. It's still on the table, but for the first iteration, clean slate is needed.

If you're taking feedback, please consider normalizing XLs for clan-vs-IS balance. Giving structure quirks to mitigate this huge difference is just a workaround, that will likely be either too weak or too strong on various mechs. Making IS XLs survive a ST loss with a bit higher penalty that clan ST loss is a SAFE way to buff IS mechs since there is no way to overpower or underpower any mechs or variants by this. You just inherently put them slightly below the clan level, which is a good start.

If you guys don't do that, we WILL get absurdly strong quirks (structure or weapons or whatever, but still), or... absurdly bad faction balance. You said it yourself in the video, the clans have huge weight- and crit savings.... the XL engine balance is a neat way to address a big chunk of this at the core instead of mitigating all of these saved tons/spaces by quirks alone.

Please consider that! The only rule you have to break is the 3 engine crit slots = death. Make it 4 crit slots = death and we're fine!

Edited by Duke Nedo, 13 September 2015 - 11:46 PM.

[Deathlike]

Vlad Ward, on 13 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

He mentioned that the only Mechs that retained heat quirks were the ones who had an engine cap below 250 and were unable to receive 10 TrueDubs.

From my recollection, the Mist Lynx DID NOT GET SUCH QUIRKS.

[Vlad Ward]

Deathlike, on 13 September 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

From my recollection, the Mist Lynx DID NOT GET SUCH QUIRKS.

Oh crap. I just realized that thing's sitting on an XL 175. Christ.

Dunno then. Clans OP.

[Deathlike]

Reference - Source:

Mist Lynx+Kitfox
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4683366

Arctic Cheetah (that doesn't need it)+Adder
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4683276

The guy who took the pics is a saint (orcrist86).

Edited by Deathlike, 14 September 2015 - 12:22 AM.

[MischiefSC]

It would be easier to give feedback if we were playing IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan. Perhaps a week of IS vs IS and one of Clan vs Clan? That or lets just do a weapon balance now. Because of the power of weapons imbalance vs all other factors it's hard to gauge the relative value of the other factors.

[Yokaiko]

So PGI's biggest shill yaps for 45 mintues saying basically "we meant to do that, sorry we forgot to tell you".
.....after hyping it for a couple weeks.


Now all is well?
Just, lol, actually lol wut.

[Pjwned]

mike29tw, on 13 September 2015 - 10:55 PM, said:

I know right? People freaking out in response to the lack of communication over confusing PTS changes? It's not like you can see that coming a mile away!! There's no reason to freak out at all!!

I didn't say there was no reason to react to or criticize the PTS, but the level of freaking out that people achieved was still not warranted.

Just relax a little bit and let the test session play out more, maybe give PGI some benefit of the doubt which I know is a little tough given their track record, and then if it still stays crap and PGI intends to release it that way (or they decide to scrap the whole thing, or whatever else...) then you can get out the torches & pitchforks again.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 September 2015 - 12:18 AM.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 14 September 2015 - 12:01 AM, said:

It would be easier to give feedback if we were playing IS vs IS or Clan vs Clan. Perhaps a week of IS vs IS and one of Clan vs Clan? That or lets just do a weapon balance now. Because of the power of weapons imbalance vs all other factors it's hard to gauge the relative value of the other factors.

No.

The Spider is the best example of the problem.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4683386

I cannot make heads or tails if that's serious. Why does the Spider-5V get negative quirks? Any reason why the Spider hero gets crazy durability?

I'm not even sure how I can start judging the system properly (besides the obvious Clan borked omnipod examples) when there are issues BETWEEN mech variants...

In summation, while I agree with some of what of Sean Lang has said, the reality is that I don't believe that it'll be acted upon correctly/properly. Historically this has been true based on previous PTSes (and I have no doubt they'll delay these changes until they rework stuff, in fear of actual backlash once it's applied).

Also, these sensor quirks generally only serve to increase the gap between the people that already know how to play the game, and those that don't. I felt like I was under ECM waiting for that delay (and optimizing for that delay isn't that hard, at least with Clan mechs). I don't feel it adds any value (and worsens the use of lock on weapons to boot, although a UAV can bypass that... assuming you're willing to spend the C-bills).

Additionally... Target Retention was mentioned to be the most popular. I disagree.. it's Advanced Seismic Sensor (or the "official/sanctioned wallhack" for this game) that has the most value.

Anyways, I didn't learn anything that I didn't already know, but I'd rather see "proof" that they are actually putting their "telemetry" to good use... or specifically that it was applied correctly.

BTW, I made ZERO mention of the weapon quirks (I thought that was kind of the whole point is to reduce the powercreep somewhat), but that also breaks down IS vs Clan balance so much more, especially when we have to really discuss Clan XL changes as a consequence.

Edited by Deathlike, 14 September 2015 - 12:21 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Deathlike, on 14 September 2015 - 12:19 AM, said:

BTW, I made ZERO mention of the weapon quirks (I thought that was kind of the whole point is to reduce the powercreep somewhat), but that also breaks down IS vs Clan balance so much more, especially when we have to really discuss Clan XL changes as a consequence.

That isn't going to be solved by quirks, and I'm going to go with PGI doesn't have the technical arm strength to fix core issues.

.....this is why we can't have proper LBXs and are forever stuck with shot-cannons of dubious values.

Edited by Yokaiko, 14 September 2015 - 12:32 AM.

[aniviron]

It's hard to blame everyone for being upset when this has been hyped up for literally months as the end-all-be-all of balance and then telling us it's complete the day before it launches. There's also a storied history of this game putting something on the PTS server and then launching it to the live environment a week later with no changes.

If the PTS had gone up with a big disclaimer about how this first part was just to test the sensors, if we'd been told it was only half done, I don't think we'd have a quarter this many mad people. Hell, there was a big command chair post about it, could we not have been informed there?

[Deathlike]

Yokaiko, on 14 September 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

That isn't going to be solved by quirks, and I'm going to go with PGI doesn't have the technical arm strength to fix core issues.

.....this is why we can't have proper LBXs and are forever stuck with ****-cannons of dubious values.

It's more than just that.

Gamemodes was discussed in the video. You know what... 4 versions of deathmatch is pretty boring. It would take actual effort to produce something that would promote any semblance of role warfare (even in the terribad hypothetical Locust-1V situation referenced in the video). If that was actually going to happen... I would actually want to see this.

[Sarlic]

Sean Lang, on 13 September 2015 - 09:49 PM, said:

Was headed over here to post! Thanks @Hans! Hope that clears the air of a few things, as I felt future communication needs to be very clear and overall better to help ease players expectations!

I knew it. Thanks for the video, couldnt have said better myself regarding quirks.

Tried to explain multiple times, but Sean nailed it with this video.

Edited by Sarlic, 14 September 2015 - 12:51 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Deathlike, on 14 September 2015 - 12:32 AM, said:

It's more than just that.

Gamemodes was discussed in the video. You know what... 4 versions of deathmatch is pretty boring. It would take actual effort to produce something that would promote any semblance of role warfare (even in the terribad hypothetical Locust-1V situation referenced in the video). If that was actually going to happen... I would actually want to see this.

They can try to force it sure, but what good is that going to do? They still haven't fixed CW, the Group Queue basically the comp team playground.

So they are going make force composition when the majority plays solo and teams are ACTIVELY vilified? This from a developer that makes ECM that is commonly referred to as a GODBOX and then doesn't account for that in the matchmaker?


Call me skeptical.

[Johnny Z]

Yokaiko, on 14 September 2015 - 12:06 AM, said:

So PGI's biggest shill yaps for 45 mintues saying basically "we meant to do that, sorry we forgot to tell you".
.....after hyping it for a couple weeks.


Now all is well?
Just, lol, actually lol wut.

Aside from the rude comment a good point. This has been hyped for a long while. Alot of us Inner Sphere pilots were hoping our commandos and XL engines would get some love.

But again some of the mechs got good structure quirks.