209 replies to this topic

[no one]

DivineEvil, on 16 September 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

If PGI would consider something alike to what you're suggesting, we'll end up not with "Luke Skywalker torpedo run", but with "Clone troopers and rebels unable to hit each-other with particle rifles on 10m distances".

I think you could still easily hit things without a lock so long as your weapons have distinct reticules. Your shots aren't ever going to place further apart than they are spaced on your 'Mech's torso anyway. Arms would be free aiming as they are now, weapons just would fire along the arm's axis first and converge second.

DivineEvil, on 16 September 2015 - 07:32 AM, said:

I'm all for convergence mechanics - just another way to balance mechs around each-other. Nevertheless, my weapons must converge at whatever I'm pointing at no matter what it is. Maybe it might take a couple of seconds, maybe my fire will not be as accurate when target is moving, maybe PPC hits should freeze my convergence for a bit, maybe my damage beyong optimal range will be weaker, but my infra-red sensors still are going to detect distance of a target and converge on it. In no way I'm gonna stand for enemies being transparent to them for no reason. There's hundreds of more sensible ways to encourage scouting.

All good suggestions, I think you just need to think of this as a 'first step' convergence mechanic. You wouldn't have to have direct fire convergence interact with ECM at all. Just have it set up so people can always 'soft lock' a target by placing their reticule over or near a target. Say hitting 'R' keeps your weapons focusing on that target regardless of another 'Mech walking into your line of fire. Then have weapons converge gradually (or just snap to convergence range if PGI can't code 'gradually') after a lock delay. Maybe a shared hard lock lets your weapons converge without line of sight. That could be pretty valuable if a target's outside your normal lock range of 800m.

[MightyBolamite]

Merc group buddy and I came up with a similar system. Yours is better.
Totally easy, lore-ical, balanced-ish, works.
I like it.

[Raso]

What if only certain torso mounted weapons converged (based on weapon size, mech tonnage, quirks or whatever) and while individual arms would converge the weapons on the arms themselves would only do so to a point?

Thr DDC would be an example of a unit where an AC20 would converge and an Awesome would have full convergence with energy weapons in the arms.

A Nova might pack lots of lasers into the arms but maybe the units with less arm weapon slots would have superior convergence.

[wanderer]

Is it simple?

No?

Then remember this is PGI. If a fix isn't a simple one,we'll never see it happen.

[Leopardo]

Tell me 1 thing - in color of this new info balace thing - if i have you as my target and you r not - you dint have red square around me. so your pin point wepons like lazers will not convergence ? is this the point ?

[Greyhart]

Or you could have it that if you are not locked on a target the damage is spread over adjoining parts if the idea of convergence is too difficult.

[Magna Canus]

Or a Dual Gauss Jager with Tag in either arm. The Gauss charge time would actually be an advantage allowing you to line up your "laser sights" before releasing the shot. One Gauss per mouse button (left/right). Charge one after the other for rapid snap shots. There are already those out there that are good with this.

[Colby Boucher]

wanderer, on 25 September 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

Is it simple?

No?

Then remember this is PGI. If a fix isn't a simple one,we'll never see it happen.

The implementation should be simple enough- convergence now relies on visual distance- make insta-convergence rely on *target distance* instead. With no other changes, convergence completely ceases to work untill you have an actual lock.

Which makes sense since true-to-lore Battlemechs don't have optical sensors- and Pilots have never been able to accomplish the mech equivalent of adustable gunsights.

Many of your arguments seem to operate under the assumption of near-nonexistant locks, as is true under thr current state of ECM. You're butthurt about it and don't want Ecm any more powerful then it is, which is comepletely understandable. Most everyone agrees that ECM would need to be reworked for thus system to be plausable, and yes, that's an added level of complexity, but here's the thing: That's why the PTS exists.

Plan: A PTS session which
1. Impliments the most basic version of the OP's suggestion.
2. Disables ECM entirely.

Of course, this wouldn't be a game-ready fix, but it would work as a pure proof-of-concept. If it seems like a plausable basis for making information gathering an essential part of gameplay, other issues can be worked out from there in the PTS as time allows.

As for wheather or not it's a "noob friendly" change, I started playing before dynamic convergence was removed and the concequences of having a giant autocannon in a fixed position on my shoulder were obvious the moment I tried firing. Things are not noob friendly if there is no easy in-game way of discovering that information- convergence is easy to discover due to the obvious feedback of where your shots are flying.

[Destoroyah]

another thing they could do is make it where if you don't got target info your mechs weapons suffer accuracy issues. The concept being since battlemechs are not precision machines when trying to fire on targets without the targeting computer it is like shooting a sniper rifle from the hip instead of through the scope cause the pilot can only do so much with the pedal and kn0bs. However when you got the Targeting Info the targeting computer is able to interface with the pilots neuro-helmet feedback and your sensors to compensate for human error and automatically adjust the weapon gimbels to aim your weapons more precisely.

The way they could implement this could be to make it when you got targeting info unlocked you can aim as you do now. Without targeting info laser weapons have a little bit of reticle wobble(like when Jump Jetting just not that severe) and projectile weapons get a slight Cone of Fire(Not super big. Like a atlas at 800m facing you straight on a projectile would hit the CT 75% of the time but drift to the ST the other 25%. Also this would apply for each weapon so if you alpha a bunch of projectiles they won't all hit the same spot.)

Edited by Destoroyah, 29 September 2015 - 12:43 AM.

[Leopardo]

thats good idea. its like you shooting on the run - in 1st person shooters....

[BeaverOnFire]

Well, i´ve read the opening post twice now and i still don´t get the point. Maybe becaues i´m not a native speaker or i´m not that clever. Is there someone who can enlighten me (by using simple words )?

edit: thx for the fast response and the clarification!

ps: leopardo from MRDR? if so, we dropped a couple of times together. <o

Edited by BeaverOnFire, 29 September 2015 - 02:03 AM.

[Leopardo]

if you dont have locked target, your pin point (+) and your guns and lasers shooting to theyr maximum range point. like - you have med lasers - and theyr distance 400m - so - its the pont where you will hit. if your target r not locked.

Edited by Leopardo, 29 September 2015 - 01:56 AM.

[Colby Boucher]

BeaverOnFire, on 29 September 2015 - 01:46 AM, said:

Well, i´ve read the opening post twice now and i still don´t get the point. Maybe becaues i´m not a native speaker or i´m not that clever. Is there someone who can enlighten me (by using simple words )?

edit: thx for the fast response and the clarification!

ps: leopardo from MRDR? if so, we dropped a couple of times together. <o

Check out these pictures posted earlier in the discussion, they, might help! (not mine)

[bar10jim]

no one, on 23 September 2015 - 07:48 PM, said:

Then have weapons converge gradually (or just snap to convergence range if PGI can't code 'gradually') after a lock delay.

PGI has stated MANY TIMES BEFORE that gradual convergence is not an option. Gradual convergence was part of the original design - that's why we have a 'Pinpoint' skill to unlock in the Elite tier that supposedly decreases convergence time. The stated reason is that gradual convergence does not work with Host State Rewind.

[bar10jim]

Colby Boucher, on 28 September 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:

Plan: A PTS session which
1. Impliments the most basic version of the OP's suggestion.
2. Disables ECM entirely.

Of course, this wouldn't be a game-ready fix, but it would work as a pure proof-of-concept. If it seems like a plausable basis for making information gathering an essential part of gameplay, other issues can be worked out from there in the PTS as time allows.

This sounds interesting.

Edited by bar10jim, 29 September 2015 - 01:12 PM.

[Leopardo]

we dropped yeah! remember your name to)

Edited by Leopardo, 29 September 2015 - 10:27 PM.

[Madcap72]

What's wrong with the existing system of the range finder calculating convergence?

Edited by Madcap72, 04 October 2015 - 12:41 AM.

[Colby Boucher]

Madcap72, on 04 October 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

What's wrong with the existing system of the range finder calculating convergence?

Nothing is wrong with the current system in itself, but we are concidering the change due to two factors:

1. The game originally featured "dynamic convergence" with which it took a small amount of time for your weapons to converge on any given point. The system threw off hit detection too much to be salvageable. The idea proposed in the thread would be a working compromise between the two systems.

2. The proposed system would incentivise information Warfare by making long-range engagements extremely ineffective without a Scout marking targets.

3. It's far more lore-friendly than the current system.

Edited by Colby Boucher, 04 October 2015 - 04:45 AM.

[Amerante]

I just spam this here ^^
And by doing so, I want to make gathered information a critera for pinpoint accuracy.

http://mwomercs.com/...82#entry4685882

Edited by Amerante, 04 October 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[Madcap72]

Colby Boucher, on 04 October 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Nothing is wrong with the current system in itself, but we are concidering the change due to two factors:

1. The game originally featured "dynamic convergence" with which it took a small amount of time for your weapons to converge on any given point. The system threw off hit detection too much to be salvageable. The idea proposed in the thread would be a working compromise between the two systems.

2. The proposed system would incentivise information Warfare by making long-range engagements extremely ineffective without a Scout marking targets.

3. It's far more lore-friendly than the current system.

If we wanted lore friendly systems, then according to the lore like the novels, we should be able to lock onto enemy mechs and the aiming solution be automated, with manual aiming being a back up.