209 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

wanderer, on 14 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Convergence focuses on a point at maximum range unless pointing at a locked target in LOS.

Information becomes ammunition (or rather, a lack of wasting it.).

Great idea except Russ openly admitted they were unable to code dynamic convergence to work with HSR.

[Khobai]

Quote

Id argue its not amazing he didnt figure it out

are you saying paul isnt amazing

his epic deeds will be recorded in the annals of time long after youre forgotten. Such as ghost heat, paulconomy 2.0, hoverjets, and more!

[wanderer]

This isn't dynamic convergence. It's ignoring a target unless it's a red Dorito- that is, it's binary.

Do I have a locked target? Converge on it. No? Fire straight ahead at a point X meters away, where X is my maximum range (or maximum sensor range, for that matter- which would give you a point of reference if nothing else.)

[Big Tin Man]

Kmieciu, on 14 September 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

Great idea except Russ openly admitted they were unable to code dynamic convergence to work with HSR.

When, and why couldn't it be programmed in a binary state? Either you have a target or you don't. Too many HSR calls and latency issues?

To a degree we already have this with the rangefinder, range just needs to be set at infinity unless a target is locked.

[Trevor Belmont]

I support this idea.

[wanderer]

Doesn't even have to be "infinity".

You can set it for the maximum range weapons fire can potentially deal damage. You can set it for the 'Mechs maximum sensor range. Or the maximum range it's weapons could deal damage.

The simplest from most complex from first to last there.

[Big Tin Man]

x-posted in the PTS feedback forum. Hopefully it gets their attention.

http://mwomercs.com/...e-pts-feedback/

[Big Tin Man]

wanderer, on 14 September 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Doesn't even have to be "infinity".

You can set it for the maximum range weapons fire can potentially deal damage. You can set it for the 'Mechs maximum sensor range. Or the maximum range it's weapons could deal damage.

The simplest from most complex from first to last there.

Agreed that it doesn't have to be infinity, but differing convergence for mixed loadouts may be tough to code, max sensor range is strange to explain and remember as it's different from mech to mech (and modules affect this), but just shooting in a straight line without a target is pretty simple and really pacifies the OMG immersion crowd.

Simple may be better.

[Sadist Cain]

Good idea, needs attention.

Would solve a lot of the duller aspects of gameplay.

Someone fire a flare, make this noticed.

[Apnu]

wanderer, on 14 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Convergence focuses on a point at maximum range unless pointing at a locked target in LOS.

Information becomes ammunition (or rather, a lack of wasting it.).

This isn't a bad idea and it fits the TT lore also.

In the source material, if a battlmech was active, other mechs were aware of it. Because mechs had a wide range of sensors (thermal, magnetic, low-light, radiation and so on). Plus there were usually satellites forces would use (either existing planetary network, or they'd hack into them, or they'd deploy their own net over the battlefield. The point is, on the TT, everybody knew where all the mechs were at all the times.

We don't have that. If a mech doesn't have LOS within a certain range, it can't see the mech. Even if we can visually see it.

Try this: Go into Testing Grounds and start a game. From the spawn, take a couple steps forward to the hill and look left. You'll see a Jenner standing on a hill about 750-ish meters away. You have to stare at it for a while before the Dorito shows up. For some reason distance means it takes the mech's battle computer a while to figure out there's a mech over there. I get having to wait for telemetry to show up. but the Dorito should show up the very second the mech looks at it.

I get that Info War is a pillar and all, but each mech turns out to be an island of itself in that "battle" Which then removes the whole scouting role from the game.

Instead, since PGI is basically giving us all free C3 network, let's use that. Let the mech that takes time to stare at a mech and gather's intel on it, feed that back to the rest of the team so the next time, the info pops up. Whatever that info may be. Even if its partial info, depending on the length of time it was analyzed.

Also, just give everybody seismic sensors. Let us see blips where things are. If they aren't scouted, we'd just see a blip. the longer someone stares at the blip at the right range, the more intel is fed back to the battle network.

If not, then fine, maybe the first part of being scouted means the scouted mech stays on the mini map as a blip. That way there's a Fog-of-War, but it can be cleared away as the scouts do their job.

Something along those lines is "info war" as far as I understand it, and I think, makes a great framework for what a scout really should be doing.

[wanderer]

Oh, I'm a big fan of KISS- that's the whole idea with the original post here!

Maximum weapon damage distance makes it identical for everyone.

Maximum sensor distance gives you "iron sights" that vary only in a limited fashion from 'Mech to 'Mech, but add some flavor without going hugely complex. It's a number already in the 'Mech data, after all.

Maximum by best weapon distance would be hugely complex. #1 is easy, #2 very likely doable, #3 would be headsplosion complex.

[Nik Reaper]

Interesting point, but wouldn't that make jesus box the best thing ever and/or force everyone to mount a tag just to be able to fire at things at more than 300m range?

[CDLord HHGD]

wanderer, on 14 September 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

This isn't dynamic convergence. It's ignoring a target unless it's a red Dorito- that is, it's binary.

Do I have a locked target? Converge on it. No? Fire straight ahead at a point X meters away, where X is my maximum range (or maximum sensor range, for that matter- which would give you a point of reference if nothing else.)

Or no convergence unless red dorito. No dorito, the weapon fires straight forward from the mech.

[The Mechromancer]

Or...

Make it so structural damage is only visible by "scouts" or those with sensor upgrades.

Targeting a mech also targeted by a scout will reveal damage.

Others will have to use visual cues (smoking components).

Edited by The Mechromancer, 14 September 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

TO signify your targeting computer is actually locking onto something? Would make sense.

Otherwise, yeah, the guns probably would just blankly be staring off into space, since the entire mech is just electronics....so yeah, when they get refitted, ive got a few Shilones incoming with +1s for the OP.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 14 September 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Anyone00]

Big Tin Man, on 14 September 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

When, and why couldn't it be programmed in a binary state? Either you have a target or you don't. Too many HSR calls and latency issues?

To a degree we already have this with the rangefinder, range just needs to be set at infinity unless a target is locked.

If asking Russ on Twitter the question would need to acknowledge the HSR issues and if they would be an impediment to this idea.

[Nik Reaper]

Also the logic part of this idea has a flaw, we have a range finder on our hud , and it shows that our mech has some kind of optic rangefinder as we can see the range to any point we look at ( - infinity ) so while it would make for a good game mechanic if the mech without a target would need a bit of time to realign the guns to the pointed range while it would adjust instantly to a targeted mech , it should be able to realign even with no target, as long as you keep the x on the target,

[wanderer]

Except the engine can't handle "true" shifting convergence. Trust me, I was in beta.

When it tried, I actually had one case where things we so off-target that I literally TK'd someone almost at a right angle to the target with my arm-mounted PPCs, as they basically tried to converge about 2 meters in front of me firing at a target 400m or so away. That's the worst example, but there were plenty of really,REALLY off shots before it was changed to the current model.

Binary convergence- that is "range to locked target or "default" range" - is certainly doable by the existing engine. The locked target gives the engine an accurate range to converge at, though aim is still required- instead of a convergence system that flicks wildly between whatever point happens to be under the crosshairs when you fire if you should happen to slip off even for a moment.

[Rebas Kradd]

Or you could just increase the Ghost Heat on lasers. No programming required at all.

An idea so simple I'm surprised Wanderer never figured it out...

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 14 September 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[wanderer]

So, tell me. How does making laservomit hotter make your sensor perks worth anything?