70 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

Hans Von Lohman, on 15 September 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

Also, I think Hairbrained Schemes might also be in on this. They're about to get a gajilion million dollars (via Kickstarter) for a new BattleTech RPG, and they're going to also want the unseen back in play as well. Especially as they're going to share the 3D models for their game from PGI's art.

Well, it stands to reason. Harebrained Schemes is Jordan Weissman's company, Catalyst is (among others) Loren Coleman, Randall Bills, and Herbert Beas.

It's all the old BT guys, it would be strange if they didn't one day join forces again against the evil that is HG.

So Catalyst wants the Unseen back. HBS wants to set their new game in the 3025 era, so of course they also want the Unseen back, and as you say they have also decided to work with both Catalyst AND PGI on the designs.

Board game, RTS, and FPS; if all of them use the same designs, it'll be a marvellous time to be a BT fan - and a sucky old time to be HG, which only makes the BT fans' time all the more marvellous

Edited by stjobe, 15 September 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 15 September 2015 - 06:53 AM, said:

Well, it stands to reason. Harebrained Schemes is Jordan Weissman's company, Catalyst is (among others) Loren Coleman, Randall Bills, and Herbert Beas.

It's all the old BT guys, it would be strange if they didn't one day join forces again against the evil that is HG.

So Catalyst wants the Unseen back. HBS wants to set their new game in the 3025 era, so of course they also want the Unseen back, and as you say they have also decided to work with both Catalyst AND PGI on the designs.

Board game, RTS, and FPS; if all of them use the same designs, it'll be a marvellous time to be a BT fan - and a sucky old time to be HG, which only makes the BT fans' time all the more marvellous

they coulda left well enough alone. Instead their desperation over mishandling Robotech the Sentinels and lack of viable product made them into greedy LawsuitNazis.

Sad, most Btech fans I knew WERE also huge Robotech fans.

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

also wondering how much their legal funds account got depleted locking horns with Hasbro.


lol...paranoid much?

Again, look up the introduction of the Unseen by CGL, a subsidiary of Topps, which was the catalyst of this.

Bishop, you have to remember that I work as a Corporate Exec. The number of doucey moves I've seen companies pull for various reasons would stagger you. While not a video game, I have seen that exact scheme play out before by someone that wanted to fold a company while escaping his investors.

Edited by RussianWolf, 15 September 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

RussianWolf, on 15 September 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

Bishop, you have to remember that I work as a Corporate Exec. The number of doucey moves I've seen companies pull for various reasons would stagger you. While not a video game, I have seen that exact scheme play out before by someone that wanted to fold a company while escaping his investors.

Indunitably.

But that would require PGI, CGL and HBS to be working in tandem to screw over PGIs customer base. Considering the repercussions that would have on HBS (and to a lesser degree CGL) it seems quite the stretch, when all the details and angles are considered.

[TLBFestus]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

also wondering how much their legal funds account got depleted locking horns with Hasbro.


lol...paranoid much?

Again, look up the introduction of the Unseen by CGL, a subsidiary of Topps, which was the catalyst of this.

Paranoid if he's wrong.

Visionary if it plays out that way. Not that I would bet on it tho.

[0bsidion]

Because HG wasn't suing over the name Marauder, they could care less about that, and wouldn't have a case there anyway. They were suing because the original art work was recognizably plagiarized IP they had a copyright claim on. With this new version I'd be amazed if it even made it into court.

[Hotthedd]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

also wondering how much their legal funds account got depleted locking horns with Hasbro.


lol...paranoid much?

Again, look up the introduction of the Unseen by CGL, a subsidiary of Topps, which was the catalyst of this.

It isn't paranoia if everyone really IS out to get you...

[Lily from animove]

harmony gold.

that entire name reads like sarcasm.

[Metus regem]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 September 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Right now there is a unique situation in all of HG troll history. Simply, HG is faced with multiple targets for trolling at once - as opposed to every other time with just a single target for them to bully, with both CGL and PGI going forward with what they should legally be allowed to do. Coupled with HG's recent legal (and money) issues, this puts both PGI and CGL in a fantastic position to once and for all shut down HG's legal trolling.

If HG goes after either company for frivolous and unsustainable infringement charges, like they tend to do whenever the MAD, WHM, or any other of the Macross Unseen related designs crop up, the option to simply "out money" the target company is dubious for a pair of reasons - aside from the fact that HG has zero legal claim to any attempt regardless. Firstly, if they attack one company, the other is equally at risk down the line and it is in their best interest to support the target of HG's attack. This makes it essentially a 2 on 1 case, in a case where HG knows damned well it has no case whatsoever. Secondly, if they did a stupid and tried to sue one or both companies, both could easily counter-sue and essentially call HG on their steaming pile of BS - and this countersuit would probably win.

As a result, HG stands to lose, and lose horribly, should they try anything. The odds are strongly in PGI's/CGL's favor if HG starts something, it is unlikely HG could finish what it started by bullying either company with deep pockets to make defense overly expensive to maintain, would lose the case almost assuredly if they cannot out money the defendants, and would lose a tremendous, tremendous amount of money by a countersuit which would in all likelihood succeed given the courts' recent, and very much appreciated, crackdown on patent and copyright trolls, of which HG is notorious for being.

I agree with you, but I think the first kick in the teeth that HG took about this was the "Sky-striker incident" of a few years back, where HG tried to sue Hasbro (I mean freaking Hasbro!) over the use of an F-14 inspired G.I. Joe jet fighter toy... Between Hasbro and Northrop Grumman (whom came to Hasbro's side in this), HG got a bad kick in the teeth resulting in them having to pay for Hasbro's legal fees for even attempting a frivolous law suit against them. If anything I think they may have learned a lesson about going after anyone that has something that looks like it came from Robotech (Macross).....

[RussianWolf]

Metus regem, on 15 September 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I agree with you, but I think the first kick in the teeth that HG took about this was the "Sky-striker incident" of a few years back, where HG tried to sue Hasbro (I mean freaking Hasbro!) over the use of an F-14 inspired G.I. Joe jet fighter toy... Between Hasbro and Northrop Grumman (whom came to Hasbro's side in this), HG got a bad kick in the teeth resulting in them having to pay for Hasbro's legal fees for even attempting a frivolous law suit against them. If anything I think they may have learned a lesson about going after anyone that has something that looks like it came from Robotech (Macross).....

try again.

the toy was a Transformer (combined with a GI Joe toy in the pack) and each paid their own legal fees as they both had the case dismissed.

[Apnu]

xXBagheeraXx, on 15 September 2015 - 05:43 AM, said:

You know what. If they Legit asked for help if Harmony tried to sue and passed a hat

I would put in on that. Despite all the frustrations this game has given me over the years. I would totally chip in. I hope they actually read this and if it actually becomes a freaking issue I'd even make a post about it.

JUST to screw over HG. Id go "shut up and take my lawyer money" Hell make some incentives and toss some mechs myw ay if you win.

I would too. I think the MAD's funds might be to fill a defense war chest in case HG get's frisky. But Russ sounded very confident that this MAD design would withstand the test in court. Looking at it, I believe him.

Here is HG's Gualg:


Here is MWO's MAD:

[Raggedyman]

Metus regem, on 15 September 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

I agree with you, but I think the first kick in the teeth that HG took about this was the "Sky-striker incident" of a few years back, where HG tried to sue Hasbro (I mean freaking Hasbro!) over the use of an F-14 inspired G.I. Joe jet fighter toy... Between Hasbro and Northrop Grumman (whom came to Hasbro's side in this), HG got a bad kick in the teeth resulting in them having to pay for Hasbro's legal fees for even attempting a frivolous law suit against them. If anything I think they may have learned a lesson about going after anyone that has something that looks like it came from Robotech (Macross).....

I heard about that one, IIRC it was to do with the art on the packaging being that of a HG Robotech image that Hasbro had licensed to them for a year back in the 80s.

Apnu, on 15 September 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I would too. I think the MAD's funds might be to fill a defense war chest in case HG get's frisky. But Russ sounded very confident that this MAD design would withstand the test in court. Looking at it, I believe him.

Here is HG's Gualg:


Here is MWO's MAD:

some similarities, some differences

nope, I've got no clue. I guess it's for the high priced lawyers to fight out.

[1453 R]

Pariah pretty much covered it.

Harmony Gold is soon going to be presented with a multiple-party united front - if they went after CGL or Piranha, you can bet your bottom britches that Harebrained would get in on the defense as well. And if anyone knows this case inside and out, including the sealed proceedings back in the dawn of time that started this whole cluckaroo parade in the first place, it'd be Jordan Weissman.

Harmony Gold could out-money CGL, Piranha, or HBS, most likely. I don't believe it has the wherewithal to out-money all of them, and frankly Pariah is exactly right - if it went to court they would risk legal censure for whatever the lawyerspeak is for "being a gigantic *******" over trying to block what is clearly and unambiguously a perfectly legal initiative on the part of three different companies on the weight of an old, eroded, and suspect-to-begin-with copyright they never should have had in the first place.

Short Version: we're getting our goddamn Unseen back and Harmony Gold is no longer in the sort of position they'd need to law-troll the multiple companies taking a crack at it simultaneously after getting spanked by Hasbro.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Apnu, on 15 September 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I would too. I think the MAD's funds might be to fill a defense war chest in case HG get's frisky. But Russ sounded very confident that this MAD design would withstand the test in court. Looking at it, I believe him.

Here is HG's Gualg:


Here is MWO's MAD:

Makes me wonder if the resemblance between the King Crab and Marauder wasn't a coincidence. Maybe one reason the King Crab exists in MWO is to help defend the Marauder in court.

If HG tries to sue Catalyst and PGI, PGI could say..

"Well look how close it resembles our other robots *shows picture of KC*...see it looks like our other mechs and this KC looks nothing like that Gulag...thing".

Could be a thing. If it isn't, PGI, take notes if it ever comedy to a trial.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Apnu, on 15 September 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

I would too. I think the MAD's funds might be to fill a defense war chest in case HG get's frisky. But Russ sounded very confident that this MAD design would withstand the test in court. Looking at it, I believe him.

Here is HG's Gualg:


Here is MWO's MAD:

Yeah, I only barely see the resemblance anymore. HG can give it a rest.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Yea, I think the Marauder is related to the King Crab line of mechs. It's just a more streamlined version.

[Bishop Steiner]

TLBFestus, on 15 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Paranoid if he's wrong.

Visionary if it plays out that way. Not that I would bet on it tho.

every coach is a genius if the play call works, a goat if it doesn't. Kinda the same thing here.

0bsidion, on 15 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Because HG wasn't suing over the name Marauder, they could care less about that, and wouldn't have a case there anyway. They were suing because the original art work was recognizably plagiarized IP they had a copyright claim on. With this new version I'd be amazed if it even made it into court.

well, even that copyright claim case was paper thin.....if FASA hadn't been legally incompetent, that would have been fixed 20 years ago

[Escef]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 September 2015 - 04:49 AM, said:

From what I heard, HG only has two lawyers left in the NA legal department because of fraud. :3 On top of that, HG tried to take Hasbro to court over a toy of theirs. Hasbro didn't back down. Harmony Gold lost bad.

"Harmony Gold U.S.A. Inc.'s lawsuit against Hasbro, Inc. for copyright infringement was dismissed on September 23. The Stipulation for Dismissal of Action is representative of both parties agreeing to dismiss the lawsuit, which is opposed to a judge or court order dismissing the case due to lack of evidence.

The documents also state the lawsuit is dismissed with prejudice, which prevents Harmony Gold U.S.A. from refiling a lawsuit for the same claim against Hasbro. Both parties will pay their own attorneys' fees and costs."

I say they lost bad, even though it was dismissed. After all, they are barred from ever suing hasbro again for that item, so clearly they felt their case was weak. While on paper it kinda looks like a draw, HG definitely lost it, or would have, or they wouldn't have been barred from doing it ever again.

I heard they asked for the case to be dismissed because they had reached an out of court agreement. http://generalsjoes....lusive-jetfire/

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

RussianWolf, on 15 September 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

I did say this in a facebook post though. This may be PGI's way to drop this game without the ire of the playerbase. rRlease the MAD, HG sues, they file bankruptcy and say "it's HG, not us."

That sounds totally imagniable to me.

However, for PGI to pull this through the would need to
a ) be in an unwinnable situation (for example if their license would expire or staff is resigning in large numbers) or
b )have a significantly better job opportunity at hand (don't think they made enough out of MWO to retire)
c ) be totally desperate.

I think neither applies, so i am not worried.

Edited by Sthtopokeon, 15 September 2015 - 09:07 AM.

[1453 R]

Escef, on 15 September 2015 - 08:56 AM, said:

I heard they asked for the case to be dismissed because they had reached an out of court agreement. http://generalsjoes....lusive-jetfire/

To be fair, out-of-court settlement could be as mild as "let's just agree that this was a thing, we (Hasbro) won't do it again, and how's about we don't rustle our mutual jimmies?"...or as enthusiastic as "How's about you guys (HG) drop this peaceably, now, before the lawyers get their teeth sunk in proper? Do that for us and we won't dismantle your entire worthless company bit by bit and auction the remains off to slave traders. Savvy?"

Private out-of-court agreements are sorta intentionally ambiguous that way.