70 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Hmm... since microsoft is the copyright holder for mechwarrior, HG not only risks facing catalyst and pgi which both have a decent amount of resources but microsoft as well. If MS comes out to play HG won't be able to intimidate them and MS has damn good IP lawyers and can probably put HG's lawsuit down before it goes to trial or drag things out enough that HG won't be able to afford it.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

DiGCliff, on 15 September 2015 - 12:56 PM, said:

honestly have only recently meaning withing the last 3 ish months started playing the game, but i have known about battle tech for years, iv wanted to buy in for a bit but am a little unsure of where to start.

http://www.amazon.co...ductory+box+set

The Battletech Introductory Box Set... comes with 24 IS mechs, and 2 "premium" mechs that are super high quality plastic [the new standard plastic mechs are much better than the old sets.] All of these are 100% paintable, the standard mechs are pre-assembled, and the premium mechs are build yourself [so you can get a feel for what the model building side of the hobby is like]
Also includes 2 dual sided hex map boards of the intro maps, a quick start rules guide, the Intro Box rules guide, the "Innersphere at a glance" guide which gives history of the universe and factions within. 2 six sided dice, record sheets for all mechs included in the set, at least 1 quick reference table card [for all your shooting needs], and a guide that tells you how to expand on this intro box.

This is literally everything you need to start playing Battletech tabletop at the 3025 tech level. Even comes with a guide to tell you how to paint the mechs if you want pointers.

[One Medic Army]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 September 2015 - 04:35 AM, said:

Right now there is a unique situation in all of HG troll history. Simply, HG is faced with multiple targets for trolling at once - as opposed to every other time with just a single target for them to bully, with both CGL and PGI going forward with what they should legally be allowed to do. Coupled with HG's recent legal (and money) issues, this puts both PGI and CGL in a fantastic position to once and for all shut down HG's legal trolling.

If HG goes after either company for frivolous and unsustainable infringement charges, like they tend to do whenever the MAD, WHM, or any other of the Macross Unseen related designs crop up, the option to simply "out money" the target company is dubious for a pair of reasons - aside from the fact that HG has zero legal claim to any attempt regardless. Firstly, if they attack one company, the other is equally at risk down the line and it is in their best interest to support the target of HG's attack. This makes it essentially a 2 on 1 case, in a case where HG knows damned well it has no case whatsoever. Secondly, if they did a stupid and tried to sue one or both companies, both could easily counter-sue and essentially call HG on their steaming pile of BS - and this countersuit would probably win.

As a result, HG stands to lose, and lose horribly, should they try anything. The odds are strongly in PGI's/CGL's favor if HG starts something, it is unlikely HG could finish what it started by bullying either company with deep pockets to make defense overly expensive to maintain, would lose the case almost assuredly if they cannot out money the defendants, and would lose a tremendous, tremendous amount of money by a countersuit which would in all likelihood succeed given the courts' recent, and very much appreciated, crackdown on patent and copyright trolls, of which HG is notorious for being.

As an addendum to this: any suit would most likely reference the Japanese court case and also find that HG in fact doesn't even own distribution rights to the Macross designs, only the show. Because the guys they bought from only owned rights to the show, not the designs.

Which means they could no longer stand in the way of all the other Macross series and merchandise.

[Tombstoner]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 September 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

And then PGI is going to use the Overlords of money made off the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, Stinger, Archer and other Unseen mechs to go kick HG back into the stone age in the next "Battle of the Unseens".

Unlikely.... My moneys on cashing out after the steam release. PGI has 3 options. make a new IP of its own - that failed. Use the IP's it has, MWO and others or fold.

HG is in no way hindered or overwhelmed in any way that an IP lawsuit against PGI is out of the question. I would argue the other way. its more likely to be able to squeeze some cash from PGI.

I expect any of the unseen designs to coincide with the steam release. then as HG get wind of i, sends a notice of intent, PGI hides the cash.

The question becomes what more can be done with the resourced PGI has on hand or expects to gather to keep this game going. only they have the numbers. PGI choices are limited.

[Tombstoner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 15 September 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Judging by the artwork 33%
I read somewhere (possibly on these forums) that similar art only needs to differ by 33% to avoid IP infringment.

Its a subjective test. is the item in question sufficiently different to avoid confusion..... if no then it infringes.

[Jack Gallows]

LordKnightFandragon, on 15 September 2015 - 03:43 AM, said:

PGI made one look sufficiently different and HG cant say **** about it.

Catalyst Game Labs who owns Battletech through Topps made them look sufficiently different. PGI didn't have a hand in it until they had to translate into MW:O, the original redesigns are from CGL.

Raggedyman, on 15 September 2015 - 03:42 AM, said:

Apologies if it's already been answered but does anyone know what changed to let the Marauder and Warhammer be added to the game?

Specifically? No...but to clear up some confusion....

Harmony Gold USA is the company that produces Robotech, the American version of Macross. They are VERY different as Harmony Gold made Robotech by changing up things from Macross and then tacking two other animes on the end of it and calling it a series where the Macross universe diverged significantly after the original show (which was heavily edited to make Robotech.) They claim they have the rights to everything related to Robotech and Macross in the US (which they do not, only distribution rights and merchandise rights outside of Japan,) which they received from Tatsunoko Productions who did the animation work for Macross and only had the rights to the physical animation but nothing else (no characters, story, designs, etc.) Studio Nue owns the rights to the characters, story, art/etc and Big West was the financial partner that helped make it happen.

Recently, Catalyst Game Labs put up this http://bg.battletech...dthree-two-one/ detailing that they were redesigning the Unseen to make them available again and get them close to their original while still being different enough to work. It's because of this that we can have the Marauder and the Warhammer (since those are the two we've seen from CGL,) come to MW:O. Add on top of that that the concept artist for MW:O is one of the same concept art and general art guys for Battletech/Mechwarrior (along with Shimmering Sword and maybe a few others.) So, we'll see more re-imagined unseens from Catalyst and then eventually to MW:O.

This also means the new Battletech http://battletechgame.com/ game by Harebrained Schemes will most likely use them as it's set in the 3025 era where the unseen are incredibly prevalent.

I don't know that we'll ever know the specifics completely, or if we do it'll be a while. I think part of it was that they did a test run with the Marauder,

and since that went well they decided to go for it with the rest of them. Might be some legal deals that were worked out, but in the end it doesn't matter as long as this remains and moves forward.

Edited by Jack Gallows, 15 September 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[DiGCliff]

you know what, from what i am seeing why not just work steadly on what we want i am not saying flood the game with mechs but you know a new mech or two released i would say every 4 months. because we do have a literal treasure trove of fun mechs just waiting to get in to mwo. man this game is just great.

[Raggedyman]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 15 September 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

Judging by the artwork 33%
I read somewhere (possibly on these forums) that similar art only needs to differ by 33% to avoid IP infringment.

I doubt that would be a solid rule, as evaluating the difference in art by percentages isn't going to be possible and lawyers prefer wording like "substantial" and "meaningful", however as a rule of thumb I'm sure that's a useful marker.

[Anjian]

Harmony Gold doesn't own any rights in the distribution of Macross and its sequels outside of Japan. Only within the US. Pretty much everywhere but the US, Macross DVDs, games, etc,. are distributed.

[Lykaon]

Mainly the big catalyst for this change (pun intended) would be Harmony Gold selling film rights to Sony to make a Robotech movie franchise.This would mean that HG would no longer be the sole holder with exclusive North American rights now that Sony had movie rights.

Catalyst game labs had already received confermation that the previously purchased use rights for the other unseen (those from Dougram Fang of the Sun and Crusher Joe) were being recognized by the copyright holder that made the sale to FASA initially and later transfered to Catalyst along with the Battletech properties.This is what allowed PGI to put out the Pheonix packages without any fear of HG or others challenging use rights to those mechs.

Now being armed with official recognition from the initial property holder that made the sale of use rights to FASA that the deal was indeed official gives a very strong standing for defending the right to use these images and images based upon the originals. If one parent company in Japan sold all the previously used images to FASA and still recognizes the validity of the sale this underminds Harmony Gold's exclusive claim.

There is a misconception that FASA stole the images of the unseen when in fact they did purchase licence to use those images ( I believe the parent company is Takara Japan but not possitive ) Later in a seperate licence agreement Harmony Gold purchase exclusive distribution rights for what became Robotech in North America.HG has used this "exclusive" contract to argue that their licence supersededs all previous non exclusive licence use.

But now...Sony also has rights voiding the exclusive argument and making defending use of a license much easyer.

[RussianWolf]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 15 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Hmm... since microsoft is the copyright holder for mechwarrior, HG not only risks facing catalyst and pgi which both have a decent amount of resources but microsoft as well. If MS comes out to play HG won't be able to intimidate them and MS has damn good IP lawyers and can probably put HG's lawsuit down before it goes to trial or drag things out enough that HG won't be able to afford it.

This is all beneath Microsoft's radar. They honestly don't care and wouldn't waste their time on it. Hoping for them to step into the argument is pointless.