55 replies to this topic

[Trance Master]

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

As lots of me and my friends observed, sometimes after a patch the hit reg. is working perfectly fine..and then after a few days it seems to degrade to a level, where you can alpha an shutdown mech in his back and he just wouldn't die.
I think I don't have to prove this fact... You will find plenty videos and info on that topic online.

here is one post from a fellow counterstrike fellow on that topic, with the Link to the fulll text below.

"Server Reg is an issue that has been plaguing this community recently. This however was not always a problem. Previously CS versions did not have "hit reg" issues. This is including original CS versions including and prior to 1.6. For all of you who don't remember, during that time internet wasn't exactly fast so lets not try to blame today's internet for the reg issues we are experiencing now. Just to put it in perspective even in a bad area where you have a limited connected you can easily get 6-20 Mbps in america. In 1999-2001 the fastest net you could get for your home use wouldn't really exceed 800 Kbps - 1 Mbps. So today we have a significant increase in speed. Don't fool yourselves, even though the graphics are better there is NOT a significant if any increase in information being sent over the network vs older versions. Graphics have nothing to do with the mechanics of the game and the way the commands are sent over the network. The main issue here is the fact that all the information in the game is available and can be manipulated client side. Because the map and everything being presented in it including the shots being fired are all processed on your computer then sent to the server, that information can be altered. Even something as small as the time stamp in which it was sent can be changed convincing the system that the enemy did in fact make the first shots even if they did not. In other articles you will see that multiple people explain server reg Logically without the idea of it being manipulated...."http://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/46476691627336614/

[zagibu]

The argument, that there are some unknown balance factors in the game, has been made before. It's impossible to prove or deny this claim, though.

[Mcgral18]

What is your alpha?

Do you realize how much structure the CT can have?

[Zordicron]

Boy, I live in America, and sure would like to see me some 6-20MBPS.

I live in WI, I pay 100 biucks a month for 2MBPS, and I get maybe 200K. My ping fluctuates by 200, and rarely do I see it under 200, I average 300+.

Granted, I am below average, but comparing internet found in an urban area to the 90% of America that is rural area is rediculous, and grossely overestimates the quality of infrastructure for internet in this country.

For general purposes, it is safe to say USA is largely living in 1997 in regards to internet quality, with spikes of modern equipment in the most saturated urban areas.

My ground lines were put in in the late 70's for reference, as were the majority of them in my area, minus the main trunks that got updated in the late 90's, in a few spots.

[Sabazial]

It would certainly be interesting to see the results if we had any accurate way to test your theory.

[Mikex88]

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

As lots of me and my friends observed, sometimes after a patch the hit reg. is working perfectly fine..and then after a few days it seems to degrade to a level, where you can alpha an shutdown mech in his back and he just wouldn't die.
I think I don't have to prove this fact... You will find plenty videos and info on that topic online.

here is one post from a fellow counterstrike fellow on that topic, with the Link to the fulll text below.

"Server Reg is an issue that has been plaguing this community recently. This however was not always a problem. Previously CS versions did not have "hit reg" issues. This is including original CS versions including and prior to 1.6. For all of you who don't remember, during that time internet wasn't exactly fast so lets not try to blame today's internet for the reg issues we are experiencing now. Just to put it in perspective even in a bad area where you have a limited connected you can easily get 6-20 Mbps in america. In 1999-2001 the fastest net you could get for your home use wouldn't really exceed 800 Kbps - 1 Mbps. So today we have a significant increase in speed. Don't fool yourselves, even though the graphics are better there is NOT a significant if any increase in information being sent over the network vs older versions. Graphics have nothing to do with the mechanics of the game and the way the commands are sent over the network. The main issue here is the fact that all the information in the game is available and can be manipulated client side. Because the map and everything being presented in it including the shots being fired are all processed on your computer then sent to the server, that information can be altered. Even something as small as the time stamp in which it was sent can be changed convincing the system that the enemy did in fact make the first shots even if they did not. In other articles you will see that multiple people explain server reg Logically without the idea of it being manipulated...."http://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/46476691627336614/

I think he's got a point.
I know at least two of my friends who stopped playing this game, because they felt cheated by the developers...with this Hit reg thing. I am not kidding...they really believed that pgi is doing that on purpose.
Zhey used some kind of measurement tool to prove that...unfortunatel I don't have any contact with them now...would like to test my hit reg degrade over time aswell.

[Scurry]

If your internet connection is so bad that you fire off 5 repeat posts........I'm not surprised you have hitreg issues.

(Tongue-in-cheek, of course)

For discussion, AFAIK, bandwidth (the "speeds" you state) ceases to matter beyond a point - it's SNR/packet loss/latency after that point. Anyone care to chime in?

[Sarlic]

I got 25 ping on EU and i experience hit reg problems time after time. Its not always the ping what shows low and have no problems.

[zagibu]

Scurry, on 15 September 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

For discussion, AFAIK, bandwidth (the "speeds" you state) ceases to matter beyond a point - it's SNR/packet loss/latency after that point. Anyone care to chime in?

Well it depends on what kind of game it is. Usually, there isn't that much data to send to the server and back, so yeah, bandwidth is rarely the problem.

[Naduk]

Mikex88, on 15 September 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

I think he's got a point.
I know at least two of my friends who stopped playing this game, because they felt cheated by the developers...with this Hit reg thing. I am not kidding...they really believed that pgi is doing that on purpose.
Zhey used some kind of measurement tool to prove that...unfortunatel I don't have any contact with them now...would like to test my hit reg degrade over time aswell.

oh yeah i know that tool its called "your imagination"
its a free download and you can use it to prove pretty much any claim you can ever make about practically anything
its amazingly powerful and i recommend you all try it out

[Black Ivan]

This topic was posted 4 times in a row with a link to some foreign forum.
I would think of OPs caim as highly dubious.

[Kiiyor]

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

As lots of me and my friends observed, sometimes after a patch the hit reg. is working perfectly fine..and then after a few days it seems to degrade to a level, where you can alpha an shutdown mech in his back and he just wouldn't die.
I think I don't have to prove this fact... You will find plenty videos and info on that topic online.

here is one post from a fellow counterstrike fellow on that topic, with the Link to the fulll text below.

"Server Reg is an issue that has been plaguing this community recently. This however was not always a problem. Previously CS versions did not have "hit reg" issues. This is including original CS versions including and prior to 1.6. For all of you who don't remember, during that time internet wasn't exactly fast so lets not try to blame today's internet for the reg issues we are experiencing now. Just to put it in perspective even in a bad area where you have a limited connected you can easily get 6-20 Mbps in america. In 1999-2001 the fastest net you could get for your home use wouldn't really exceed 800 Kbps - 1 Mbps. So today we have a significant increase in speed. Don't fool yourselves, even though the graphics are better there is NOT a significant if any increase in information being sent over the network vs older versions. Graphics have nothing to do with the mechanics of the game and the way the commands are sent over the network. The main issue here is the fact that all the information in the game is available and can be manipulated client side. Because the map and everything being presented in it including the shots being fired are all processed on your computer then sent to the server, that information can be altered. Even something as small as the time stamp in which it was sent can be changed convincing the system that the enemy did in fact make the first shots even if they did not. In other articles you will see that multiple people explain server reg Logically without the idea of it being manipulated...."http://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/46476691627336614/

Despite the bajillion duplicate threads, and the fact that you are talking about CS, there have indeed been problems with hitreg in the past - but (anecdotally) for me, and several friends, hit detection has never, ever been better. I've not experienced any missing alphas or wonky shots in a long, long time. I'm quite happy with it, despite the very rare hiccup or bout of rubberbanding.

Now, as to your conspiracy theory, what would PGI possibly have to gain from fudging hitreg, aside from lost customers? They've spent several patch cycles rolling out improvements to HSR - noticeable ones at that - and new regional servers. Why in gods name would they screw that up? It makes very little sense.

If an unskilled player is unskilled, wouldn't they appear MORE unskilled if hitreg was poor? Wouldn't a better pilot land more consistent damage? Wouldn't engineering hit detection issues be an incredible drain on resources for a small company like PGI? Wouldn't it just be easier not to engineer hit reg issues?

I'm a little... taken aback by all of this.

Anyhoo, on to another thing; your parallels with CS.

CS is a different beast entirely to MWO.

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

So today we have a significant increase in speed. Don't fool yourselves, even though the graphics are better there is NOT a significant if any increase in information being sent over the network vs older versions.

As far as MWO is concerned, this is a load of crap.

Matthew Craig, on 11 September 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

One of Mechwarriors challenges is that being an FPS it is regularly compared to other FPS titles e.g. if Counterstrike can get hit detection right then why can't MWO. There are a couple of notable differences with MWO the first being that each Mech can field a wide variety of weapons, in a game like CS you don't fire 6 lasers and 2 LRM banks all at the same time with AMS going off etc.

This adds to the complexity of the simulation that the server is doing and the overall workload for host state rewind and networking this is partly what limits us to 12 vs. 12 currently and made it such a challenge in the first place.

Each mech in MWO is outfitted with a multitude of weapons, tied to 2 different crosshairs, some DOT, some PPFLD, some hitscan, some projectile based, some COF, often all firing at once. Missiles through the air are being tracked by the servers, hits on several different locations being recorded and damage values calculated, elevation changes constantly recalculating, locks and target information being calculated on the servers... If you had every single player in a full CounterStrike server firing at the one time, throwing grenades and causing general mayhem, you wouldn't even come close to the amount of traffic being thrown down the pipe in MWO by 24 mechs with bajillions of weapons and the ability to FIRE EVERYTHING.



I really, really, reeeeeeeeeeee-he-he-he-heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeealy
doubt that PGI have some grand conspiracy to control game balance through hitreg.

[Shredhead]

I can totally prove that! Here is a picture of my friend Gurglemoose the Enlightened checking the internet connections of the world with his Orgon-Energy-Meter:


He says packet loss is a lie and sites like this are just a ruse of the Illoominaughty and their reptiloid masters to distract us of the truth: They are mining gold from the internet traffic, while they are constantly disrupting free energy waves and the world internet traffic with chem trails from their spy planes!

[Sjorpha]

"You will find plenty videos..."

...but you're not going to show them to us?

"My friends totally tested this..."

...but they can't be reached or bothered to speak themselves?

"Here's a qoute from a guy talking about the issue..."

...in a different game and with the same lack of substance?

"I'm experiencing frustrating examples of bad hitreg..."

...and your first thought is that the developer is deliberately conspiring to destroy their own gameplay?



Honestly dude, do you have ANY idea how ridiculous you sound?

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 September 2015 - 05:17 AM.

[Kiiyor]

And another thing!



Stuff like THIS, and network loading from your ISP has far, far more impact on the stability of your connection than any mythical lag balance tool. PACKET LOSS. Netflix. Line repairs. DDOS'es. Down nodes. Heck, ATMOSPHERIC INTERFERENCE AND FRIGGIN ALIENS. All these things affect the stability of your connection, and all are probably better explanations than "it's a conspiracy".

Edited by Kiiyor, 15 September 2015 - 05:51 AM.

[MarineTech]

Yeahhhhhhhh...

Been in the game a month and knows exactly what's behind everything.

We're not waiting for this get to K-Town.

Prepare for the birds.

[KharnZor]

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

No.
You have two problems.
1. you are and your friends are clueless.
2. you and your friends are bad at the game.

[s0da72]

client side vs server side hit reg.

You would be trading one set of problems for another set of problems. Each has their own strengths and weaknesses, neither is perfect.

[Mystere]

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

[1453 R]

Whoah.

I haven't seen a load this steamy and voluminous in quite some time. I mean hell, it's got the birds center-aligning their text outside K-Town. I know some people get all tingly in the danglies for conspiracy theories and such, but if you honestly, truly think Piranha's manipulating hitreg behind the scenes almost undetectably to try and shore up weak players...

Hell, I wish their codemonkeys were that good. Do you have any idea how much more awesome this game would be if Piranha had actual wizards working for them?!