55 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Wow. Really.

You do know that's a flat out idea,right? You lose because PGI is messing with ping with magical omniscient packet loss control or the like because.... reasons? Why do they care? Why in the world would they introduce hitreg issues everyone hates to accomplish what small matchmaker would do more easily and reliably?

This concept that someone else has this perfect control of an environment, flawless and with perfect secrecy is a specific sort of crazy. Like religious faith in a way, it's a attempt to explain something you don't understand and ascribe agency to it to lend purpose and intent to our tribulations. Bad hitreg sucks but you ascribe intent and malice to it and it has a sort of purpose. Some people just need that.

No fixing crazy.

[Mycrus]

Trance Master, on 15 September 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Hi guys ,
I just want to talk about this so called "hit registration" issue which seems to be frustrating a lot of our players.
Some players I know , even quit to play this game entirely because of that issue.
And the reason behind this is, that they feel that pgi is manipulating the hit reg. on purpose in order to "balance" the game.
That way unskilled pilots might get a shot to score higher aswell..

As lots of me and my friends observed, sometimes after a patch the hit reg. is working perfectly fine..and then after a few days it seems to degrade to a level, where you can alpha an shutdown mech in his back and he just wouldn't die.
I think I don't have to prove this fact... You will find plenty videos and info on that topic online.

here is one post from a fellow counterstrike fellow on that topic, with the Link to the fulll text below.

"Server Reg is an issue that has been plaguing this community recently. This however was not always a problem. Previously CS versions did not have "hit reg" issues. This is including original CS versions including and prior to 1.6. For all of you who don't remember, during that time internet wasn't exactly fast so lets not try to blame today's internet for the reg issues we are experiencing now. Just to put it in perspective even in a bad area where you have a limited connected you can easily get 6-20 Mbps in america. In 1999-2001 the fastest net you could get for your home use wouldn't really exceed 800 Kbps - 1 Mbps. So today we have a significant increase in speed. Don't fool yourselves, even though the graphics are better there is NOT a significant if any increase in information being sent over the network vs older versions. Graphics have nothing to do with the mechanics of the game and the way the commands are sent over the network. The main issue here is the fact that all the information in the game is available and can be manipulated client side. Because the map and everything being presented in it including the shots being fired are all processed on your computer then sent to the server, that information can be altered. Even something as small as the time stamp in which it was sent can be changed convincing the system that the enemy did in fact make the first shots even if they did not. In other articles you will see that multiple people explain server reg Logically without the idea of it being manipulated...."http://steamcommunity.com/app/730/discussions/0/46476691627336614/

You have a point... day one of oceanic launch... hit reg was perfect i was farming pugs in the 500-800 dmg range...

Weeks later im back at the 300-500 dmg range...

Hit reg deteriorates... probably for the reasons you have stated..

[Shadow Magnet]

Sarlic, on 15 September 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

I got 25 ping on EU and i experience hit reg problems time after time. Its not always the ping what shows low and have no problems.

I experience the same, having a ping of 16-17 on the EU server and worst hit reg of all 3 servers. I actually prefer to play on Oceanic despite having a ping of 260-280. I can easily accept a delay in target locking etc. as long as my damage is reliable applied.

[Shadow Magnet]

MischiefSC, on 15 September 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

Wow. Really. You do know that's a flat out idea,right? You lose because PGI is messing with ping with magical omniscient packet loss control or the like because.... reasons? Why do they care? Why in the world would they introduce hitreg issues everyone hates to accomplish what small matchmaker would do more easily and reliably? This concept that someone else has this perfect control of an environment, flawless and with perfect secrecy is a specific sort of crazy. Like religious faith in a way, it's a attempt to explain something you don't understand and ascribe agency to it to lend purpose and intent to our tribulations. Bad hitreg sucks but you ascribe intent and malice to it and it has a sort of purpose. Some people just need that. No fixing crazy.

Why crazy? After having issues with hit reg almost all the time since I started playing MWO, I tried to find a pattern that would explain the erratic behaviour of hit reg. And I found none so far. With all the strange things that PGI did in the past, I would not be very surprised that they would apply some hidden damage handicap on players based on some weird logic - to balance out matches.

As long hit reg is as unreliable as it is now, PGI dreaming about e-sports is just silly.

[bad arcade kitty]

people mix ping i.e. response delay and the amount of information which you can send in a unit of time i.e. what's commonly referred as speed

just because you have 10 mbit/s doesn't mean your ping delay is better than somebody's who has 1 mbit/s, that second person can have a better ping and since games don't need that much traffic can have a large advantage on you

[sycocys]

Almost 100% the bad hit reg isn't due to MWo hackers.

Possibly in part due to not perfect net codes still.

Mostly to due with network infrastrure vs basically everything from hardware issues, power issues, software routing issues, bad cables (different hardware issues really), dumb asses that feel like they need to DDoS every server node and individual on the planet - but the chances of it being hackers for this game are quite low.

PGI also doesn't seem to do server resets more than once every 2 weeks, which probably doesn't really help matters out either.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Eldagore, on 15 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Boy, I live in America, and sure would like to see me some 6-20MBPS.

I live in WI, I pay 100 biucks a month for 2MBPS, and I get maybe 200K. My ping fluctuates by 200, and rarely do I see it under 200, I average 300+.

Granted, I am below average, but comparing internet found in an urban area to the 90% of America that is rural area is rediculous, and grossely overestimates the quality of infrastructure for internet in this country.

For general purposes, it is safe to say USA is largely living in 1997 in regards to internet quality, with spikes of modern equipment in the most saturated urban areas.

My ground lines were put in in the late 70's for reference, as were the majority of them in my area, minus the main trunks that got updated in the late 90's, in a few spots.

You're probably worse off, but it's pretty much the same here in Northern BC.
Actually, not much any more since I moved, but I pay $100 cdn (standalone internet, ie: not bundled), and I get 50Mb/s (read: megabits), which equals about 6MB/s.
Where I moved from: $80 nets you 2-5Mb/s (about 400KB/s) ...
Granted my old town is small, ~8k pop., and I moved to a town that has ~80k pop.
Trying to convince the big companies like shaw/telus to get the infrastructure out there is like cutting down a tree with a herring.

Meanwhile, next door in Alberta there's a town that pitched in money for a 1000Mb/s broadband infrastructure and created their own community ISP...

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 15 September 2015 - 05:51 PM.

[Davegt27]

wow this like the subject of UFO's

[YourSaviorLegion]

I've experienced zero issues in the past couple of months, but that's probably because I have 80 Mbps connection and only live several hours away from the American hub

[Valdherre Tor]

interesting read regarding the OP. I to have noticed my hit reg issues get worse over time. Though I do not think its some silly conspiracy to nerf good players. I mean why would the devs alter hit reg for balance? Hit reg is something noticeable to us the players, so if they wanted to alter the game play for any one player for example- why not make a medium laser do 4.5 dmg instead of 5 dmg to said player which you would likely never notice or have a hard time detecting.

*BTW not saying this can even be done with game mechanics because I just don't know.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Eldagore, on 15 September 2015 - 04:09 AM, said:

Boy, I live in America, and sure would like to see me some 6-20MBPS.

I live in WI, I pay 100 biucks a month for 2MBPS, and I get maybe 200K. My ping fluctuates by 200, and rarely do I see it under 200, I average 300+.

Granted, I am below average, but comparing internet found in an urban area to the 90% of America that is rural area is rediculous, and grossely overestimates the quality of infrastructure for internet in this country.

For general purposes, it is safe to say USA is largely living in 1997 in regards to internet quality, with spikes of modern equipment in the most saturated urban areas.

My ground lines were put in in the late 70's for reference, as were the majority of them in my area, minus the main trunks that got updated in the late 90's, in a few spots.

most of my family lives in areas in Maine that just got cell towers last year and have to have satellite internet/TV connections because there IS NO cable yet. They dont game much up there

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 September 2015 - 06:11 PM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

the eb and flow of MWO is strange mystical and full of unknowns.....

must be those aliens i know it.

[MischiefSC]

So why would PGI use hitreg, which would involve an incredibly complex process, calls and checks that would generate additional traffic and cost them money, to awkwardly try to nerf damage for specific players because.... they don't want you to do well?

That is, literally, crazy. Not just absurd but crazy.

If anyone thinks that PGI has some crazy convoluted conspiracy to keep them from doing damage they are crazy. That is not a rational train of thought. There are a million nerfs and mm tweaks that would accomplish such a thing better and even that serves no purpose. PGI has no vested interested in gimping your damage or somehow manipulating latency to make you miss. There are a lot of factors involved in latency. Evil plots by "the man"are not one of them.

[sycocys]

MischiefSC, on 15 September 2015 - 06:14 PM, said:

So why would PGI use hitreg, which would involve an incredibly complex process, calls and checks that would generate additional traffic and cost them money, to awkwardly try to nerf damage for specific players because.... they don't want you to do well?

That is, literally, crazy. Not just absurd but crazy.

If anyone thinks that PGI has some crazy convoluted conspiracy to keep them from doing damage they are crazy. That is not a rational train of thought. There are a million nerfs and mm tweaks that would accomplish such a thing better and even that serves no purpose. PGI has no vested interested in gimping your damage or somehow manipulating latency to make you miss. There are a lot of factors involved in latency. Evil plots by "the man"are not one of them.

True story, it would be far easier to just kick you up a tier or two to make you hit less and take more laser vomit to the face.

--edit or maybe that's simply what happens naturall. Servers are reset and running as good as they can, more players are playing because of a new patch so the matches are more balanced and less meta (tier 3 and lower at least) so you do better and pop up a rank. Then population starts wearing down and you are in more challenging matches than you are accustomed to and start getting beat up by players a little better than you.

Edited by sycocys, 15 September 2015 - 06:29 PM.

[Valdherre Tor]

Valdherre Tor, on 15 September 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

interesting read regarding the OP. I to have noticed my hit reg issues get worse over time. Though I do not think its some silly conspiracy to nerf good players. I mean why would the devs alter hit reg for balance? Hit reg is something noticeable to us the players, so if they wanted to alter the game play for any one player for example- why not make a medium laser do 4.5 dmg instead of 5 dmg to said player which you would likely never notice or have a hard time detecting.

*BTW not saying this can even be done with game mechanics because I just don't know.

gonna quote myself-

unless they don't want us to know that they know that we know making it a double conspiracy muhahaha........

[Chuck Jager]

There is nothing that can be done with hit reg to make bad players stop hiding and chainfiring

[MischiefSC]

sycocys, on 15 September 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

True story, it would be far easier to just kick you up a tier or two to make you hit less and take more laser vomit to the face.

--edit or maybe that's simply what happens naturall. Servers are reset and running as good as they can, more players are playing because of a new patch so the matches are more balanced and less meta (tier 3 and lower at least) so you do better and pop up a rank. Then population starts wearing down and you are in more challenging matches than you are accustomed to and start getting beat up by players a little better than you.

IMPOSSIBRU! That would mean that it's a simple byproduct of cause and effect and that good things and bad things happen as a natural consequence of unrelated events instead of everything being driven by intentional, often malicious agency trying to 'keep you down'?

MADNESS.

[KharnZor]

Mycrus, on 15 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

You have a point... day one of oceanic launch... hit reg was perfect i was farming pugs in the 500-800 dmg range...

Weeks later im back at the 300-500 dmg range...

Hit reg deteriorates... probably for the reasons you have stated..

I never would have pegged you as a member of the tinfoil hat brigade.

[Mycrus]

KharnZor, on 15 September 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

I never would have pegged you as a member of the tinfoil hat brigade.

Whatever you think of me... think lower

[Troutmonkey]

On the US servers my ping is 250-300ms.
On the Oceanic servers my ping is 90-150ms.

Currently hit reg is as good as it has ever been. The only time it's ever been as good as it is now is right after HSR launched.

However, having crappy Australian internet my ping with easily reach 500ms+ if anyone so much as even thinks about watching Netflix / Youtube. At 500ms, I get a crap tonne of rubber banding and teleporting, but none of that can be blamed on PGI