31 replies to this topic

[IsaAurinkoinen]

One thing to ease this would be removal of armlock. If you want to shoot with every weapon to same spot you have to wait some time torso to adjust after twist.

Edited by IsaAurinkoinen, 22 September 2015 - 12:37 AM.

[Errinovar]

Goombah hit the nail on the head here...

[Motroid]

IsaAurinkoinen, on 22 September 2015 - 12:34 AM, said:

One thing to ease this would be removal of armlock. If you want to shoot with every weapon to same spot you have to wait some time torso to adjust after twist.

Most players already and nearly every competetive player has armlock off anyways. Doesn't change a thing.

[EmperorMyrf]

Mercier, on 21 September 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

The alpha to one perfectly-converged target point - ( "covergence point" )
( with, ironically, the exception of some arms - the one weapon mount that COULD converge as such )
is the heart of the TTK and meta problems...

It's not only bad for game play and game balance, it's physically impossible:
https://en.wikipedia...n_harmonisation

Canonically mech weapons have actuators that adjust the convergence point dynamically so in our case it is possible.

Though I agree otherwise, convergence (combined with large alphas) is definitely the main issue currently.

[The Lost Boy]

How about the pilot picks a Range for weapon convergance and thats the range for true pinpoint damage. The focus point. The furthur away you get from that point, the more spread the alpha is. It still allows for tight groupings but will greatly reduce the lethality of the Alpha.

[Kmieciu]

I run a Hellbringer equipped with a laser that does 42 pinpoint damage for 36 heat with 465 meter range.
It has a 95 point heat scale. The only penalty for going over 95 points of heat is a momentary shutdown.
It also carries a magic a box that prevents all locks outside of 200 meters as well as missile locks inside 180 meters.
MWO has trully become a mockery of Battletech.

[Lightfoot]

Don't come around the corner without checking for Banshees?

Group-Fire is core gameplay. Alpha-Strike (not group-fire) can't all hit the same spot if you are moving. The solution is to make MWO's mechs tougher to keep up with the large weapons all recharging in 4 seconds or less. Something like that. However, I am not usually losing mech sections until after a good deal of combat has occured. I check for Banshees.

[Mordric]

It would be nice if they could limit how many Alpha strikes you could pull off in X-amount of time. People abuse it, and just create Lazer or Autocannon Alpha's to nuke you in 30sec's

[Postumus]

The two things I can think of off the top of my head that would help the most with the current meta are hardpoint sizes (small, medium, large) and heat scale (penalties to things like movement speed, maneuverability, target locks at high heat).

Also, reducing the sheer number of duplicate hardpoints on some mechs (cap it to stock build weapon numbers for the most part), or when that isn't possible, negative quirking mechs with tons of duplicate points, like what was done with timby and storm crow.

Hardpoint sizes and number reduction would reduce the number of heavy weapons that a mech can carry, so that they can be balanced to where, say, a single AC/10, AC/5 or PPC could be useful. Hardpoint number reductions would cut down on the medium laser spam. Both together would increase TTK, and stop the power creep in alpha strikes.

It also wouldn't hurt to make SRMs, AC/10, LBX, etc. less of a waste of tonnage.

Edited by Postumus, 02 October 2015 - 06:45 PM.

[Havyek]

I still laugh at the amount of people complaining about laser vomit. Lasers require burn time (however short) ballistics are WAY more dangerous in groups than lasers. They do all their damage in single/faster shots. They also generally do less heat.

Twist your torso to spread damage, you'll live longer.

There are a number of things that this game needs to improve on, weapon convergence to placate the TTers is not one of them.

[Khobai]

Quote

Reduce everyone's heat cap + increase heat dissipation (fire less at the same time but heat goes down more quickly)? This i've seen suggested before.

Except reducing the heat cap wont fix the problem.

It will just force everyone into using dual Gauss builds which generate virtually no heat. And then you'll end up with the same exact problem of high pinpoint alphas all over again.

The problem isnt heat. Anyone who thinks the problem is heat doesnt understand the game at all. The problem is pinpoint convergence and the lack of damage spreading mechanics in the game. Making heat more punitive doesnt fix convergence and convergence is what needs to be fixed or at least lessened with damage distribution mechanics.

Quote

Hardpoint sizes and number reduction would reduce the number of heavy weapons that a mech can carry,

Except mechs boating heavy weapons isnt the problem. Ghost heat and the 2 gauss limit already prevents mechs from firing more than 1-2 heavy weapons. Mechs boating LIGHT weapons like CERMLs is the problem. And hardpoint sizes do NOTHING to solve that problem.

Hardpoint sizes, just like a lower heat cap, completely fails to address the real problem of convergence.

Quote

Also, reducing the sheer number of duplicate hardpoints on some mechs (cap it to stock build weapon numbers for the most part), or when that isn't possible, negative quirking mechs with tons of duplicate points, like what was done with timby and storm crow.

duplicate hardpoints arnt the problem either. convergence is.

a mech firing 6 lasers would be perfectly balanced as long as those lasers dont all hit the same location.

again the best solution is to change the way damage is applied by not allowing it to all go into one location.

Edited by Khobai, 03 October 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Goombah]

Khobai, on 03 October 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

Except reducing the heat cap wont fix the problem.

It will just force everyone into using dual Gauss builds which generate virtually no heat. And then you'll end up with the same exact problem of high pinpoint alphas all over again.

The problem isnt heat. Anyone who thinks the problem is heat doesnt understand the game at all. The problem is pinpoint convergence and the lack of damage spreading mechanics in the game. Making heat more punitive doesnt fix convergence and convergence is what needs to be fixed or at least lessened with damage distribution mechanics.

This exactly. Spooky ghost heat does not prevent my robot from getting blown to hell in one single attack from one single opponent. The only thing ghost heat does is stop the same guy from likewise blowing up the robot next to me in exactly the same fashion immediately thereafter, ghost heat makes them wait a few seconds first.
Problem not solved.

The only things that will reduce TTK are:
reducing or eliminating weapon convergence (by no means adding random spread values, please no)
Hardpoint normalization: giving every mech equal potential for alpha strikes (why does a firestarter have 8 guns and a cicada 4? wut?)
Universal weapon damage debuffs
Universal armor buffs for everything (locust could use a little love here)

[Could take a look at the whole Gauss not generating any heat thing too, I've still got people asking me why the AC/15 gun doesn't make heat, the answer being "it explodes when hit sometimes" which is usually responded to with "That's ********"]