7 replies to this topic

[The Lost Boy]

Develop a system that will handicap teams and matches that allow for sides of different numbers. 12 vs 11 , 12 vs 10, or even 12 vs 9. Take away all weapon quirks. Using a tonnage per side and a modifier for numbers of clan mechs and create a handicapping system. Sides with lots of tonnage/clanners WILL be outnumbered. It was the original clan vs is balance and still the only one that makes sense. Clan tech is superior in every way. IS cant match it on a 1 to 1 basis and was never intended to. The game devs are missing that point big time.

[Livewyr]

I had a discussion with a friend on TS regarding this (using numerical superiority to balance IS vs. Clan)

-----------------Backstory that leads right into my point.
In single player games, the player character is typically stronger than the AI story opponents. Balance (harder fights) is typically achieved by having more opponents.

Now, take a moment and imagine that you are one of those AI opponents. (Fundamentally weaker) Fighting the player character.
Is it going to be fun for you, individually being so over matched? Yeah, there are more of your team than there is of theirs, but you cannot control your team, you can only control you, in your inferior equipment.

Clan Tech unmolested would be the player character. IS Tech unchanged would be the AI opponent.

Which is better? Being one of the Bandits? Or being the Dragonborn.
I'll take Dragonborn for 1000.



[EDIT for Humor]:
Picture a Timber Wolf shouting Fus Ro Dah and blowing a bunch of commandos, dragons, and awesomes off the Mountain in Alpine peaks.

Edited by Livewyr, 15 September 2015 - 06:25 PM.

[The Lost Boy]

So your point is what? You like the clans? Do you agree with me on force size is the way to balance or you just wanted to say you like the better tech?

[Livewyr]

Lemming of the BDA, on 15 September 2015 - 07:09 PM, said:

So your point is what? You like the clans? Do you agree with me on force size is the way to balance or you just wanted to say you like the better tech?

My point is, that form of balancing would be less fun for the IS.

Teams would be balanced (maybe)
Mechs would not be balanced.

Players control mechs, not teams.


I am a clan pilot (I like clan mech style) but if the situation were reversed with superior IS tech being outnumbered by inferior clan mechs, I would play inner sphere. (or not play at all.)

[DivineEvil]

I disagree. If that is the only thing that makes sense to you, it's a shame. This system will never work due to the disparity between different mechs, IS or Clan alike.

Mechs must be balanced, period. The only way, that really makes sense, is to see where IS and Clan mechs are the same and address these places in favor of IS. As I've told in four different topics here, doubling body structure for IS again and cutting the part of Clan heat capacity with some adjustments to dissipation of both might do the trick.

[Koshirou]

Livewyr, on 15 September 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

Now, take a moment and imagine that you are one of those AI opponents. (Fundamentally weaker) Fighting the player character.

There is a world of difference between a.) being a mook amongs hundreds who are dispatched by a lone superhuman with ease and b.) controlling a tactical unit which is ~20% inferior to your typical opponents in quality while your side is 20% superior in quantity.

It's a lot more like having 12 T-34/85 vs. 10 Panthers in Red Orchestra (old game...)
Generally, the Panther is the superior tank, even though it has some weaknesses too. Its firepower and frontal armor - the most important characteristics - are plain better. But the T-34 is not completely outclassed.

In other words, a hapless mook in Skyrim does not have a fighting chance. An IS Mech in a properly balanced 10 vs 12 does. And a fighting chance for me as an individual player while preserving overall team balance is all I'd ask for as an IS loyalist. That and a multiplication/division for K/D by 1.2 in the case of Clan-IS games.

[Livewyr]

Koshirou, on 16 September 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

There is a world of difference between a.) being a mook amongs hundreds who are dispatched by a lone superhuman with ease and b.) controlling a tactical unit which is ~20% inferior to your typical opponents in quality while your side is 20% superior in quantity.

1: Bandits vs Dragonborn was meant to be a funny and hyperbolic depiction of the IS vs Clan battles...not meant for measurement.
2: Removing all Weapon quirks would make the Orion (best IS 75 tonner, if not only) vastly inferior to the Timber Wolf, in every way. (Less armor, slower, much less firepower.)

Koshirou, on 16 September 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

It's a lot more like having 12 T-34/85 vs. 10 Panthers in Red Orchestra (old game...)
Generally, the Panther is the superior tank, even though it has some weaknesses too. Its firepower and frontal armor - the most important characteristics - are plain better. But the T-34 is not completely outclassed.

Unmolested IS vs Clan, IS is completely outclassed.
ACH vs. All.
SCR vs All.
TBR vs All.
DWF vs All.

Koshirou, on 16 September 2015 - 12:10 AM, said:

In other words, a hapless mook in Skyrim does not have a fighting chance. An IS Mech in a properly balanced 10 vs 12 does. And a fighting chance for me as an individual player while preserving overall team balance is all I'd ask for as an IS loyalist. That and a multiplication/division for K/D by 1.2 in the case of Clan-IS games.

Pretend you're in a public solo queue game, and your team runs off to the four winds. Where do you go?

What happens when you round that corner to face the Timber Wolf 1v1 at 300 meters? (Remember, you do not have quirks, such as people have grown used to now.)

Let's say you've got an Orion with AC20, 3 SRM4s, and 2 Medium lasers, moving at 71, which gives it minimal ammo. (A build I made specifically for dueling short range.)
Let's say the TBR has a UAC20, 4 SRM4s, and 2 ER Small Lasers. (The Clan build I made specifically for dueling short range...that also has the ammo to take into public queue)

Do you honestly think the Orion has a prayer?
Out ranged
Out gunned
Out maneuvered (can't even run)
Out armored

Are you going to have fun being pummeled into the dirt 1 on 1?

Edited by Livewyr, 16 September 2015 - 03:08 AM.

[Antares102]

... is to spell correctly.