61 replies to this topic

[White Bear 84]

Saxie, on 16 September 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

how does this not fall under name/shame

I'm with Saxie, you wanna post up matches where players have got less than what you deem acceptable at least cover up the names..

That said Nyuu, looks like you got pugged hardcore

TBH the rationale behind this thread is a bit contentious on both sides, I mean yes we want all players to pull their weigh, but the thread is effectively telling (and I would make this assumption based purely on the fact that if a tier 3-1 player got scores like this consistently wtf™) tier 4-5 players to back out of CW.

I would change the tack a bit and rather than say go back to the pug queue, reconsider what you are doing and how you are playing. The problem is that less skilled players have a tougher time especially against the more organised groups . Believe me, been on the fence and both sides...

The problem is though, we cant have a MM system in CW because well... ..when you have only 24 players contesting a planet, you dont have much choice so you get lumped with what you have got. Of course if you tell those 11 pugs to go back to pugging, then that 12v12 wont happen, or in the case of stacked conflicts the enemy team gets a ghost drop.

Not ideal, but better than nothing - just as long as teh players are newbs and not noobs; that they are at least willing or trying to learn how to improve their CW game.

And the issue of pugs against organised teams.. ..it's problem lies at the heart of CW => Ridiculously low player base.

[Charles Sennet]

Yes damage can be deceiving (too much damage and maybe you're too inefficient in killing mechs). One way I've explained this to newer pilots is that you should aim to do at least the equivalent to the maximum armor value of that mech in damage. This means if you're in an Arctic Cheetah you want to do a minimum of 210 damage. Alternatively, in your Timberwolf you should deliver no less than 462. Obviously more is better but generally, if you're not doing at least this number, you're not pulling your own weight and could be hurting your team.

Edited by Charles Royal, 21 September 2015 - 03:59 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Sounds like ya'll need a Hardcore CW mode.

[Colonel ONeill]

The thing is: even if you tell those guys with less than 400dmg how to do better, they will never listen! They still drop their LRMs against 6 ECM Clanners... they still use trial mechs... they still think dragons are OP... they still think you should hide at omega...

the best thing is, if those guys shoot you in the back and block you....

that game of nyuu looks more or less like every game of my games.

Spare Parts Bin, on 16 September 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

Sounds like ya'll need a Hardcore CW mode.

CW is the Hardcore mode! Pilots just dont respect that!

Edited by Colonel ONeill, 17 September 2015 - 02:31 AM.

[Davegt27]

What’s happening is players receive a call to arms

And they que up
They don’t know about half the stuff people rant about on the forums

They are people just trying to have a little fun playing an online game

I would complain to PGI if you don’t like it

[ApolloKaras]

Colonel ONeill, on 17 September 2015 - 02:28 AM, said:

The thing is: even if you tell those guys with less than 400dmg how to do better, they will never listen! They still drop their LRMs against 6 ECM Clanners... they still use trial mechs... they still think dragons are OP... they still think you should hide at omega...

the best thing is, if those guys shoot you in the back and block you....

that game of nyuu looks more or less like every game of my games.


CW is the Hardcore mode! Pilots just dont respect that!

Yeah the notion to bring trials into CW is mind blowing. I can't get over it. At least the IS trials are somewhat optimized as opposed to the Clan versions. I mean the Hellbringer has armor equivalent of an Enforcer. I feel for you O'Neill as your one of the better pilots that are active in CW, and to see drops like this is disheartening.

It's funny, depending on what side you play on BOTH sides think the other has an advantage. Both sides complain about the meta mechs, and really either side can win. Right now though I believe IS has the edge.

[Yozzman]

It should be an endgame, not for unitless puggs.

1 REAL battle for an planet, not 24h contiuous crap battles, ghost drops etc
Owning a planet should be rewarded with MC's for the guys who fought the battle.
Chipcount for attacking/defending etc

[ApolloKaras]

Yozzman, on 17 September 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:

It should be an endgame, not for unitless puggs.

1 REAL battle for an planet, not 24h contiuous crap battles, ghost drops etc
Owning a planet should be rewarded with MC's for the guys who fought the battle.
Chipcount for attacking/defending etc

Its a catch 22, if the solo's arent there we don't have a game mode, and we'd all be stuck in the regular queue.

[TWIAFU]

Lily from animove, on 15 September 2015 - 11:40 PM, said:

think about the poor souls of true low skill hat just need the mechbays from CW because they are f2p gamers.

And that is why the LP bay rewards need to be moved up.

CW and everyone that plays is harmed by these players going there just for the bays. They are not there for CW, to group, to partake in any way other farming for bays. First to die in trial mechs and sub standard scoring. Now the 'fun' begins! Now that they get creamed and will never go back to CW after the bays, somehow they have the perfect answer to 'fix' CW for everyone else.

[Davegt27]

I have to disagree the only farming that’s going on is from 8 to 12 man teams

Most people don’t complain and don’t say anything
They just drop out

The amount of brutal beatings you would have to take to get to get rank 6 is pretty high

This is just more villainizing pugs just like the other thread

Everything is the pugs fault
I recommend you complain to PGI ask them to remove all MC and Mech bays from CW rewards

[Ghogiel]

My personal line for everyone else is 1k dam in CW. And at least double for myself, hopefully break into 3k.

Those other players don't really have to do that to win. What needs to happen is that the players in the team who are going to be sub 1kdam scrubs, need to support me or in case I'm not there, the other carry player/s specifically. Them being scrubs likely means they have no idea what players on the team are of any worth. Good players are advised to not tank or take dam for the team because according to the games I have played doing less than 3-400dmg with their first mech means they won't be carrying many sub 1kdmg players.

Carrying your own weight and at least a couple others is essential when most games have 6-8 sub 1k dam players per side. Also some factions have worse pugs than others. I'd personally stay away from wolf as the quality is low.

[Widowmaker1981]

honestly.. yeah. Under 500 from 4 mechs is abysmal, if that happens regularly then you need to go back to the solo queue where there is matchmaking and learn the game. I have, literally, never once scored less than 1000, and when im playing IS i regard anything under 2000 as a failure (for me, not applying that to everyone), and when playing as Clan anything under 1500 is sub par. (yes. i get much higher scores as IS)

CW is not a place for brand new players and imo, unless you have some kind of actual disability, 2-3 months playing the game is enough to learn it well enough to be scoring at least 500/match. easily.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 17 September 2015 - 04:01 AM.

[Spare Parts Bin]

Good luck with that guys. If the PUGs do not show up prepare for 30 minute to 1 hour que times.

[Widowmaker1981]

Spare Parts Bin, on 17 September 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

Good luck with that guys. If the PUGs do not show up prepare for 30 minute to 1 hour que times.

No one is asking pugs to not show up, simply to learn the game for a month or so before jumping in the shark pond of no matchmaking.

[Throe]

This doesn't only apply to CW, but:
Am I the only one who thinks perhaps there should be a reward threshold for damage *taken*?

Realistically, even if you don't deal an extremely high amount of damage, there is a fair amount of skill involved in spreading damage taken to increase your survival time. Of course, players who are doing things correctly are spreading damage, conserving their ability to *deal* damage, *and* dealing damage. That's no to say that the ability to spread damage is any less important though. If you're not spreading damage properly, all other apsects of your performance will suffer as well...

Including a small reward for damage taken would encourage newer players to learn these tactics, even if the reward is only a flat 500 CB per match or per 'Mech. I could imagine players seeking out information on how to properly spread damage, and either asking the question here on the forums, or finding some of the same helpful videos I've watched to learn this tactic.

I routinely score above 500 damage in solo PUG matches, but my last CW match I did ~400 damage total. Part of the reason for this is that I knew I was dropping with an organized group(either a 9 or 10 man, I couldn't tell), and so I was doing my best to take as much damage as I could, vs trying to deal as much damage as I could. I still think I contributed to that match, we won, and although I did lose all four 'Mechs, I was alive well into the end-game. I believe I was finally destroyed by one of the last three enemy 'Mechs.

Edited by Throet, 17 September 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[Yozzman]

Saxie, on 17 September 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

Its a catch 22, if the solo's arent there we don't have a game mode, and we'd all be stuck in the regular queue.

How about, something really weird...
A smaller map? For my view, more elite, endgame etc etc

But then indeed for pugging they should make an extra mode indeed, faction vs faction etc.

[Khereg]

Kin3ticX, on 16 September 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Average CW wide damage during the hardcore event was 960 and the mercstar average as of recent is 1220.

Kills and assists tend to correlate w/ higher damage and presumably winning...



To be sure, monster amounts of damage isn't the be all end all but it is nice to have.

I see debates around kill efficiency all the time. This should settle it. Knowing a bit about what went into this graph, let me 'splain:

* This data came from a collection of end of CW match screenshots for -MS-; I want to say over 500 matches are represented with over 200 pilots shown. Kin3ticX and a couple of others spent a fair amount of time pulling this together - thanks guys.

* Each dot represents a pilot's average performance in CW and shows their average damage and kills for their CW matches

* Most matches were -MS- groups, but not all were full 12-man's. Some matches had as few as 4 -MS- pilots in them, but these were pretty rare. A typical match would have roughly 8-12 -MS- pilots.

* Minimum of 3 CW matches before a pilot would be included in the graph data

* Only includes matches where one side wiped out the other with 48 kills - no base rushes or otherwise "incomplete" matches

* Both wins and losses are included

* With -MS- having a pretty high win rate (roughly 80%), these stats are probably skewed pretty heavily towards winning matches (where you would expect higher damage and kill totals), so this isn't really representative of a truly "average" CW performance. Might want to ratchet these values back 10% - 15% for a typical player.

Kin3ticX's post here really tells the tale of CW and where an individual stacks up within the population. I've said before I don't think the community understands just how effective some of the top players in this game really are. -MS- has a few of them, but many don't play CW regularly. However, having seen the raw data, I can tell you the top 10 folks on this graph are top notch (basically, everyone above the 1800/match damage line).

I don't doubt some of you put up higher damage averages than that in CW, but I would bet you're doing it playing mostly with pugs. These people were doing this mostly in -MS- groups where it can be hard to pull high damage totals because most everyone is at least a decent pilot and all are competing for the roughly 11k - 15k damage available in a given match.

Edited by Khereg, 17 September 2015 - 08:17 AM.

[sycocys]

One of my last CW drops we had a guy pull 108 damage with all 4 and was very insistent that the rest of the team was under performing and holding him back in his small pulse laser cicada.

Needless to say as soon as he finally died in his last mech and saw his score it was an immediate disconnect from the match. There was simply no way anyone was going to tell him small pulses didn't do damage at 300+ meters while he tried to be a sniper and couldn't figure out why the enemy didn't finish off his 1st mech until the rest of us were dead.

[Tesunie]

Saxie, on 16 September 2015 - 05:36 PM, said:

how does this not fall under name/shame

It's cutting it close, but as he isn't pointing out any specific pilot he isn't shaming any one person. Also, I believe he/someone else mentioned that bad games do happen. If I was one of those names, I'd write it off as a bad game for me and not be shamed. Others may disagree.

Unless someone is actually using an end of match screen to shame someone, I don't believe that the names should be blanked out. It's just your singular match performance. I've had some great matches where I was top damage, and others where I was bottom and just couldn't pull myself out of the spiral I was trapped in.

With the way his post was mentioned, I probably would have blanked the names simply because of the way the screen shot was being used to reference. (In this case, how he was best and everyone else didn't do well according to his concepts. Real borderline here.)

[Kin3ticX]

TWIAFU, on 17 September 2015 - 03:37 AM, said:

And that is why the LP bay rewards need to be moved up.

CW and everyone that plays is harmed by these players going there just for the bays. They are not there for CW, to group, to partake in any way other farming for bays. First to die in trial mechs and sub standard scoring. Now the 'fun' begins! Now that they get creamed and will never go back to CW after the bays, somehow they have the perfect answer to 'fix' CW for everyone else.

I support moving the level 2 mechbay to level 6 so you would get 2 mechbays there. That extra time investment of 30-45 games ups the stakes.