15 replies to this topic

[OznerpaG]

i didn't start playing until may 2013, but from what i understand in the early days of MWO there were no such thing as engine caps - as long as you had the tonnage you could mount whatever engine you wanted


from what i remember reading engine caps were put into place for a few reasons:

• the game engine can only handle speeds up to 170kph

• in the early days you could knock down other mechs, and there was too much 'mech bowling' going on

• builds such as the 140kph Hunchback were considered 'op' since at the time speed was a possible trump to firepower

of course things are MUCH different nowadays - there are no more knockdowns, firepower is king, and clan mechs can support higher speeds with their lighter and smaller weapons/equipment


so outside of engine capping to limit speeds above 170kph, is there any reason why IS mechs should continue to have engine caps?

the biggest issue with MWO is balance of IS vs Clan, so is this a way to give a small leg up for IS mechs?

could this open up the use of old dusty mechs that never see the light of day anymore because of low mobility but otherwise might have good usable hardpoints?

would this be the only way we would ever have the chance of seeing the horrible, horrible Cataphract 4X back on the battlefield? lol

[FupDup]

Engine caps can still be used to differentiate the pros/cons of chassis and variants.


In regards to Clams vs IS, the IS caps are high enough to support the speeds you're looking for. The issue is simply that you have to sacrifice too much to use those engines. You need either a fragile IS XL, or an ungodly heavy STD. Having weapons that a bit less tonnage-efficient exasperates the issue. Some Clan mechs can get away with big engines, but the IS kinda can't.

Light Fusion Engines would help out a lot in this area, but they wouldn't completely solve the issue.

[Almond Brown]

Quote

Designed to mimic the compact profile and light weight of Clan-tech XL Engines, the Light Fusion Engine weighs only 75% of a standard Fusion Engine. While not as dramatic as the 50% weight saving of an XL Engine, the real benefit of the Light Fusion Engine is that while it intrudes into the side torsos of a BattleMech, it takes up the same amount of space as a Clan extra-light engine, allowing a Light Fusion Engine equipped 'Mech to survive the destruction of a side-torso that would cripple an Inner Sphere XL engine equipped 'Mech.
History

While introduced by the Lyran Alliance in 3062, the technology actually stems from the Wolf's Dragoons and Blackwell Corporation. With dwindling supplies of Clan-Tech XL Engines, after the initial Clan Invasion the Dragoons charged Blackwell with developing a new form of lighter than standard engine yet with the same bulk as the Clan extralight.
Using the Lostech protective energy damping grid of the Steiner Stadium on Solaris VII as a base, Blackwell engineers were able to reduce the level of physical shielding with the energy field assisting in keeping the engine's fusion reaction in check. As rumors of this technology began to leak out in 3053, Archon-Prince Victor Steiner-Davion of the Federated Commonwealth entered into protracted and ultimately fruitless negotiations with Blackwell, becoming apparent either the rumors were false or Blackwell would not sell the technology to anybody outside of the Dragoons.
In 3058, after the formation of the Lyran Alliance, the Lyran Intelligence Corps discovered that while a long way from full mass-production, Blackwell had succeeded in developing a prototype. Recognizing the awesome potential of the technology and viewing the possibly alienation of the Dragoons as worth the cost to secure it for the Alliance, Archon Katherine Steiner-Davion authorized Loki to steal the prototype. It took Defiance Industries four years and unlimited funding and resources, but the Lyran Alliance Armed Forces were duly impressed with the resulting light fusion engine. ^[1]

Just some history on the I.S. XL engine.

[Nori Silverrage]

Engine caps force some diversity. Beyond that I'm not sure if there is a specific reason.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Possible. It could help some. IS XL Engines are still fragile though, so could address that weakness in various ways.

More Structure Health and/or needing more than three Engine Crits to kill the engine. But the concern is the amount of power creep and losing trade-offs between Standard and any future engine options

Light Fusion Engines can be a possibility once the timeline advances. And so these would be tougher due to the two crits in the STs over having three from XLs.

---

And what if we could only mount Engine intervals of the mechs' weight?

So a 100 tonner would only be able to pick 200, 300, 400 for example.

[Kira Onime]

FupDup, on 17 September 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

Engine caps can still be used to differentiate the pros/cons of chassis and variants.


In regards to Clams vs IS, the IS caps are high enough to support the speeds you're looking for. The issue is simply that you have to sacrifice too much to use those engines. You need either a fragile IS XL, or an ungodly heavy STD. Having weapons that a bit less tonnage-efficient exasperates the issue. Some Clan mechs can get away with big engines, but the IS kinda can't.

Light Fusion Engines would help out a lot in this area, but they wouldn't completely solve the issue.

They'd probably just make STD engines irrelevant.

[FupDup]

Kira_Onime, on 17 September 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

They'd probably just make STD engines irrelevant.

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing. No matter whether you have them or don't have them, there's gonna be consequences...

To be fair, though, the STD engine's "viability" is mostly because some IS mechs don't have the hitboxes and/or agility to make use of an XL...such mechs don't get a choice in the matter. With Luffies, at least we wouldn't have to keep worrying about if an IS mech has big side torsos or a walking CT, cuz Luffies would work well in anything over 40 tons.

[Kira Onime]

FupDup, on 17 September 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda thing. No matter whether you have them or don't have them, there's gonna be consequences...

To be fair, though, the STD engine's "viability" is mostly because some IS mechs don't have the hitboxes and/or agility to make use of an XL...such mechs don't get a choice in the matter. With Luffies, at least we wouldn't have to keep worrying about if an IS mech has big side torsos or a walking CT, cuz Luffies would work well in anything over 40 tons.

I wonder what would happen if they, instead of adding LFE to the engine roster, they replaced STD engines with them?

[FupDup]

Kira_Onime, on 17 September 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I wonder what would happen if they, instead of adding LFE to the engine roster, they replaced STD engines with them?

They'd have to edit a lot of IS stock builds.

...Not that I'd really mind such, since nearly nobody uses them out of the box.

[Rhaythe]

FupDup, on 17 September 2015 - 07:42 AM, said:

...Not that I'd really mind such, since nearly nobody uses them out of the box.

On behalf of the stock mech community... I'd shake my tiny fist, but no... no you're right...

[Almond Brown]

Kira_Onime, on 17 September 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

They'd probably just make STD engines irrelevant.

No probably about it. Save 25% (I.S. XL) weight and don't die to a ST loss? Cya STD...

Edited by Almond Brown, 17 September 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[Ultimax]

Kira_Onime, on 17 September 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

They'd probably just make STD engines irrelevant.

This is preferable to IS mechs being made irrelevant.

[1453 R]

Frankly? LFE vs. hardlocked cXL almost sounds like the right balance point. LFE gets less weight savings per rating, but it's also fluid and flexible. You can install a 300LFE in literally everything, whereas Clan 'Mechs hardlocked into questionable cXL weights lose out on versatility and the potential weight savings of using a smaller engine, if the pilot values firepower over mobility.

Yes yes, I know - Clan BattleMechs skew it. PROGRESS IS PROGRESS, DAMNIT.

[OznerpaG]

don't have to change anything from stock - it's just an engine cap removal


it's not going to change how STD engines are used - people use them for survivability at the cost of speed, so if you use use STD engines you have no interest in extra speed in the first place


if a high engine cap was such a deal breaker you'd see more Boar's Heads, Dragons, Quickdraws, etc out there, but nobody picks a mech for the engine capacity anyways


the engine cap doesn't have to be raised on ALL mechs - it could be used as a quirk for some of the mechs that need the most help to be more useful

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I feel like certain mechs get boned hard by engine caps (AWS-8 series, CTF-4X, Vindis) while others don't (VTRs, Battlemasters, Quickdraws).

The light mechs all feel fine with their current caps, but a lot mediums, heavies, and assaults could use a slight formula adjustment to push their caps up a few ratings.

[ApolloKaras]

Kira_Onime, on 17 September 2015 - 07:13 AM, said:

They'd probably just make STD engines irrelevant.

Oh almost certainly. There are some mechs you still wouldn't ie the Atlas, some assaults, but the majority of them would absolutely run the LFE. About 90% of my mechs would be running that over night.