25 replies to this topic

[RePlayBoy101]

(my favorite map ... nascar valley)



people just dont think ... they move like a herd of cows and dying 1 by 1


and pgi ... making an old map bigger that doesnt make it better ...

Edited by RePlayBoy101, 19 September 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[Tool Box]

This is representative of what happens on these maps most of the time... Good job I guess. I will say though I constantly was trying to get my team to break from this bad habit yesterday and when they listen it is met with great success but when they don't it results in the team becoming split and then death in small pods because of some that listened and some that didn't.

When I don't say anything people do exactly as you have illustrated so nicely for us though. It's quite boring.

Edited by Tool Box, 19 September 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[RePlayBoy101]

Tool Box, on 19 September 2015 - 11:22 AM, said:

This is representative of what happens on these maps most of the time... Good job I guess. I will say though I constantly was trying to get my team to break from this bad habit yesterday and when they listen it is met with great success but when they don't it results in the team becoming split and then death in small pods because of some that listened and some that didn't.

When I don't say anything people do exactly as you have illustrated so nicely for us though. It's quite boring.

every game i try to make my team do something different ... and they just dont listen and do the predictable

something needs to be done about this becouse most people will just leave the game if they do this things over and over and over again

Edited by RePlayBoy101, 19 September 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[Spleenslitta]

Earlier today i asked my team if they wanted to try confronting the enemy in the moonlandscape rather than the middle of HPG Manifold.
After 2 matches i realised the futility and gave up.
Ask team to stay out of range from the central crater at Therra Therma and they actually believe the enemy has the superior position.
It's would be out of range and thus superior to nothing.

Ask them to go up the mountain behind central mountain on Alpine and they say.....But central mountain has the best cover and highground.
The mountain behind the central mountain is taller and with very good cover along the i11/H11 line and much more limited approaches for the enemy.
They mindlessly shamble towards the center on all maps....like it's a given that it's the best and most important place to hold on the map regardless of it's shape.

[Nightmare1]

A lot of that could be solved by PGI fixing the spawn points. The way Mechs spawn, NASCAR is just about your only option on most of these maps.

[Spleenslitta]

Nightmare1, on 19 September 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

A lot of that could be solved by PGI fixing the spawn points. The way Mechs spawn, NASCAR is just about your only option on most of these maps.

Either that or they give us Solaris. With Solaris you're one player against everyone else. No allies complaining if you go lone ranger.

[Coolant]

I'm with the OP, but I think fighting in the same location every map isn't as big an issue as the lack of producing new maps. I still can't believe there is only 11 or so unique maps and it's been 3 years since Closed Beta. The revised maps are nice, but they are still the same maps and it still takes too long between revisions.

Also, we still can't pick the map. What is up with that 3 years in? And why did they choose Caustic as the next map to redo? Should've been Terra Therma, Alpine or Viridian Bog.

[SirSlaughter]

The new maps are really beautiful but the problems are still the same.

By the way I think they should try random lances drop location in at least one game mode.

Edited by SirSlaughter, 19 September 2015 - 12:13 PM.

[Ghogiel]

crimson never does that for me. Usually if there is a split flank maneuver it's in all directions starting from the platform. otherwise its 1 side sits on top and the other does something else.

[Spare Parts Bin]

RePlayBoy101, on 19 September 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

every game i try to make my team do something different ... and they just dont listen and do the predictable

something needs to be done about this becouse most people will just leave the game if they do this things over and over and over again

Spleenslitta, on 19 September 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Earlier today i asked my team if they wanted to try confronting the enemy in the moonlandscape rather than the middle of HPG Manifold.
After 2 matches i realised the futility and gave up.
Ask team to stay out of range from the central crater at Therra Therma and they actually believe the enemy has the superior position.
It's would be out of range and thus superior to nothing.

Ask them to go up the mountain behind central mountain on Alpine and they say.....But central mountain has the best cover and highground.
The mountain behind the central mountain is taller and with very good cover along the i11/H11 line and much more limited approaches for the enemy.
They mindlessly shamble towards the center on all maps....like it's a given that it's the best and most important place to hold on the map regardless of it's shape.

I have never understood why after you point out the tactical advantages a map point has the team still can not behave logically. Alpine has several positons with only 1-3 access points if you force the enemy through a gauntlet to attain them piecemeal they can not win short of 12 Aiden Pryde, Kai Allard-Liao,Natasha Kerensky or equally iconic BT universe Mechwarriors.

[Spleenslitta]

There have been suggestions to let the community make drafts for maps and map creation contests.
A lot players shot down these ideas with comments lie-
- Maps with exploits will be made.
- Bad map planning will favor one side.
- These maps will be of such poor quality that mechs will get stuck all over the place.

All of these arguments can be defeated if the dev's just look at the player made maps as drafts.
These drafts are then balanced and finally PGI's mapmakers make the actual maps that will be used in the game.
But even if i say that....those players just ignore my comment and keep saying the same things....mindlessly.

[Aiden Skye]

There is no map / patch PGI can implement to cure good ol' fashion stupid unfortunately. Pugs be pugs.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 19 September 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[Zypher]

Without a real purpose other than death match it won't matter how many players, spawn points, or large or small the maps are.

When safety in numbers is the best way to ensure survival in order to win then people will always flock.

Conquest in it's current state isn't a good answer, cap points should have some viable strategic value to game play, but not be an out right way to win.

Skirmish and assault or the same game except one could pull off a lame win. Assault base caps should do something dynamic, maybe a free arty reload for everyone as an example.

Edited by Zypher, 19 September 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Kira Onime]

Coolant, on 19 September 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Should've been Terra Therma, Alpine

These maps where the first 2 before Caustic but they required much more work. Terra was shelved indefinitely and alpine was restarted from scratch around a month ago now.
Caustic was a far easier and quicker job to do.

[Spleenslitta]

W A R K H A N, on 19 September 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

There is no map / patch PGI can implement to cure good ol' fashion stupid unfortunately. Pugs vs pugs.

In one way i'm gratefull for this. That means i will almost allways know where the majority of the enemy players will be.
Makes it much easier to get on their flank unnoticed.

[Monkey Lover]

Play with a 12 man on the public Q . You can do anything you want.

Pug Q is for xp and cbills.

[BearFlag]

Partial solutions to this were suggested long, long ago by including elements of map dynamism. More maps would be nice, but they'll end up being played the same way if procedural variety is not introduced.

Instead, the community screamed for "destructible terrain" which should have been a very low priority. PGI did not see this obvious fact or didn't have the backbone to resist if they did. So now you have domino trees which are only irritating, obscuring and nearly game-play irrelevant.

The other element of useless dynamism we got is time of day lighting shifts. I guess after River City Night got its well-deserved retirement, PGI couldn't resist bringing it right back on two maps. The "dusk" scenario on Forest is horrible. Even thermal vision there is of limited utility because of the abundant clutter on that map. You might as well give us a flat map, a solid grey screen and fight with instrumentation only - oh wait, there's gobs of ECM too.

What should have been at the top of the list for map dynamism was those elements that enhance game play and variety. Variable drop points. Alpine alone could have 6-10 possible drop zones in Skirmish. For this to be even better, another thing needs to be fixed - dropping the team scattered over two kilometers. Remember the assaults getting ambushed at the plane on old River City? Dumb. Can you imagine a commander saying this? "OK, we're gonna drop the assaults on the extreme right and the lights two clicks away on the left. The rest will drop in the middle and we'll gather on them." In other words, the scattered drop forces an unnecessary rendezvous stage on the game. Murderball is often the first goal; may as well start with it. Bear in mind another artifact of this approach - the enemy's location will NOT be known.

(Edit: This will result in much more of the map being fought over one game to the next. Possibly you start at exact opposite sides of the map - 12 o'clock and six o'clock. Or maybe the enemy is at three o'clock or nine o'clock. Change the angles and you'll change where the battles are fought.)

Likewise variable base locations and resource locations are important to game play. Going further blocks of the map could be substituted. A hill or building cluster present one time may be absent or replaced in another instance. If new maps are time consuming, use programmatic methods to get more mileage out of the existing.

Going further still, variable exclusion zones and releasable sub-zones can REALLY open up new game play, like mission oriented goals, linked sequential battles, etc.

(oh, BTW, please reverse this trend towards clutter. IMO, Forest is not a mech battlefield, it's a tourist attraction.)

Edited by BearFlag, 19 September 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

exactly what OP show on images.

Q: how to solve it ? the behaviour is like that, because its the most efective. Is it failure of maps, or people ? both.

[COOL HANDS]

Don't know if I completely agree because a lot of the tactical suggestions being thrown around in this thread don't always work 100% of the time either.

[Davers]

SirSlaughter, on 19 September 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

The new maps are really beautiful but the problems are still the same.

By the way I think they should try random lances drop location in at least one game mode.

The problem isn't the maps it's the players. If you think random spawns won't create the exact same "group up and head towards x terrain feature" then you just don't know how people think.