25 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

RePlayBoy101, on 19 September 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

people just dont think ... they move like a herd of cows and dying 1 by 1


and pgi ... making an old map bigger that doesnt make it better ...

Yes, they do think.

The trouble is, in the absence of communication, PUGs tend to fall back on tried and true movement and fighting locations. Those highlighted areas might appear stagnant and samey, but they are the most efficient and familiar places to fight from for most groups - especially in PUGs.

It doesn't matter how big maps are made - they will invariably dilute down to the most efficient places to attack and defend. Always.

The areas you highlighted have been decided upon through thousands upon thousands of matches of bloody, chaotic trial and error. The spilled coolant of millions of mechs has decided their locations. They're like standard operating procedures in the military - things that have been drilled into you so much that they work through muscle memory. They're comfortable. They're easy - and unless YOU step up and take control, they will always be the places your team fight from.

However, almost every single match i've been in where someone takes control (emphasis on takes - whiny suggestions are NOT leading) the majority of the team will follow. I always follow, no matter how insanely idiotic the plan is, because I think anyone willing to step up and take responsibility for the possible death of the entire team is at least worthy of my attention.

Pugs rely on certainty. Deviating from the norm without reassurance is frightening and confusing. If you want to fight from a different spot, take control of the team and fight from there. The group queue is evidence that this works.

[RePlayBoy101]

Kiiyor, on 19 September 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Yes, they do think.

The trouble is, in the absence of communication, PUGs tend to fall back on tried and true movement and fighting locations. Those highlighted areas might appear stagnant and samey, but they are the most efficient and familiar places to fight from for most groups - especially in PUGs.

It doesn't matter how big maps are made - they will invariably dilute down to the most efficient places to attack and defend. Always.

The areas you highlighted have been decided upon through thousands upon thousands of matches of bloody, chaotic trial and error. The spilled coolant of millions of mechs has decided their locations. They're like standard operating procedures in the military - things that have been drilled into you so much that they work through muscle memory. They're comfortable. They're easy - and unless YOU step up and take control, they will always be the places your team fight from.

However, almost every single match i've been in where someone takes control (emphasis on takes - whiny suggestions are NOT leading) the majority of the team will follow. I always follow, no matter how insanely idiotic the plan is, because I think anyone willing to step up and take responsibility for the possible death of the entire team is at least worthy of my attention.

Pugs rely on certainty. Deviating from the norm without reassurance is frightening and confusing. If you want to fight from a different spot, take control of the team and fight from there. The group queue is evidence that this works.

i started to play CW becouse im way to bored for this kind of gameplay

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think if one cares to wayback on the forums you will see the self appointed elite espoused every tactic that we now are bored with and complain about today. These tactics were drilled into the player base over months and years.

The uber competitive and this is a "team game " crowd created this. Not PGI and the devs.

Instead of variety and fun we were told get better scrub do it this way or your a steering wheel underhive player.

I remember what play was like when I started. The majority of the games were interesting and fought all over the maps. Well until the premade wars started. Then just to survive one had to follow the program these guys laid out.

I am not against the uber competitive or teams. I feel they have their place and should have modes to do that in. I am against their telling everyone here its their way or the highway and get good scrub. Its a game and the point is fun for many. Not line em up and take them down as quickly as possible.

[Yellonet]

Randomizing (with rules to make it fair) drop zones and, bases and cap zones would bring much much more fun to the game as even though you might play the same map a few times in a row, each time will be different.
The bigger maps certainly supports this as currently as usually only a small part of them are being used for actual combat.

Forest Colony for example, only about 25% of that map is actually being used, the rest is just transport... so much more potential in that map.

[Nightshade24]

well as much as I found the OP's images funny in the sense it's true (lol caustic.)

I do not agree that bigger maps don't change anything... I mean look at river city. Back awhile ago sometimes the first minute of the game I die because a bunch of mechs fire at me from there spawn to my spawn- this is annoying back when we had the 6 ppc stalker problem, and this is even more annoying with the 12 er ppc direstar. (before spawn changes way back when, I once lasted 5 seconds on River city because my raven got duel PPC + gaussed from 1 spawn to another, a cataphract 3D just jumpjetted over some buildings infront of him, saw me on my spawn literally other side of map, and that is 1 dead raven)

I personally like the cycle of day and night- it does shake things up a bit and new maps will soon have weather effect changes however how players will play a map is NOT in PGI's control. If PGI had control on players there will be no reason for ghost heat, for lanes in CW or dropship MvP's or making certain places not accessible or not allowing normal match guys to eject or allow CW guys to eject more then once or so on.

They have to worry about the player base for every small change they do.

{
PGI staff1: "Okay, I got an idea to fix the flammers!"
PGI staff2: "okay ,lets see it on dev server"
-month later, proven to work and is successful-
Player: SCR-FS420 "lololololololo, gg no re gl anyone that needs ammo or uses lasers scrubs"
PGI staff2: "who the hell even comes up with builds like that-
PGI staff1: "maybe we should add ghost heat to flamers?..."
} what a PGI staff member has nightmares of every night when they have to work on any form of changes to MW: O. in some variation.

Back when it was 8 v 8 it was much easier to turn the team around and to co ordinate... also back when all people spawned on the same area and not spread because spread makes the centre the best place to go due to regrouping while wide NASCAR in a way regroups but depending which side the assault lance is iyou may lose a few people...

[Lightfoot]

Those are Laser/Brawler tactical moves. That's all that MWO allows right now for tactics. We had a multi-tactic MechWarrior game in May of 2013, but when players were beaten by a tactic they did not prepare for or employ themselves they called it a "Meta", when all it was was a Tactic. So now everything has been nerfed to be no better range/damage than Lasers and LRMs which have the range no longer do damage normally, they have been made noob-friendly so you really don't even need to turn your mech's shoulder to them (stealth-nerf since it has never been fixed or explained). And of course there is an Angel ECM blanket so usually LRMs have an effective recycle of about 14 seconds.

So, until MWO creates a Mech-Sim with Tactics players will just make the same Laser-Robot brawler moves every game. It's the weapons that drive the engagement, not the map itself.