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Why I Hate The Current Match Score System


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#1 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:51 PM

Okay, first have a look at the below match summary. I scored TWO kills in a victory. 186 DMG, 2K, 5A, Match Score 164. LOWEST ON THE TEAM. Lower than FOUR (4) other players, who scored no kills and died before the end of the match.

Posted Image


Now consider the following match summary, which was the last match immediately prior to the above. It was a loss. For that matter, I was the last on the team, left against two enemies, and only scored that one kill against one of those two in a failed attempt. 1K, 8A, Match Score 408. The difference? Besides having one kill fewer and losing, I mean? Oh yeah, the image was crap and left out the DAMAGE. 600+.


Posted Image


THIS is what's wrong with match scoring right now. I can drop two enemies in a win, and score lower than four other players who were killed out and killed NO ONE ELSE AT ALL (barring an accidental TK, though I don't recall that happening). But have me pull a lot of damage in a LOSS, and I can score 2.5 times as high with fewer kills.

COME ON!

Really? REALLY?!?!?! Look, I'm not bashing the other players in either of these two matches, nor am I trying to say that I do any better than MEDIOCRE on a good day. IF THAT. That's not the point at all. That 600+ damage that I contributed on the loss? It didn't save the match. Could have been 6,000, but it was still a LOSS. I only managed to kill ONE enemy mech (had it been TWO, it would have been a win, but there's no sense crying over that now). HOW IN THE FREAKIN' UNIVERSE can that be 2.5 times as good a performance as the other, in which I killed two enemies, survived, and contributed to a WIN? HOW?!

(And no, I didn't need Caustic Valley for the challenge, and yes, the Forest Colony score was one that I DID need.)

Simply rewarding DAMAGE at such a rate, that one can achieve a better match score by spamming high-DPS weapons without regard to their effect on target, doesn't recognize anything at all about player performance and contribution to the outcome of the match.

I don't pretend to know what would be a better match scoring system. That whole, "If you're going to criticize then you need to offer an alternative" thing is B***SH*T. Heard that for 22 years in the Army, and it was never true one single day of that career. I don't know because it's not my job, as the CUSTOMER/CONSUMER, to know. But I certainly have a role to play in pointing out that it is junk as is.

But don't listen to me. Check the stats on the Territorial Domination Challenge. Most common mechs selected? Gonna be the Dire Wolf, Timber Wolf, and Hellbringer. The first two are well known to be Tier One mechs in this game, and the third is not far behind and carries ECM (to keep the Lurmpocalypse at bay, because LRMs buff DMG numbers, which buffs match score, which brings the rewards in the challenge, without being all that effective for getting actual kills because they spread damage out). I'd bet a kidney that DWF and TBR are among the top three mechs chosen this weekend, and HBR is no worse than fifth place on that list. Probably 1-2-3 right there. And that's for one reason.

It's not that they're necessarily any more entertaining to play, and they're certainly not all that relatively challenging (you see that I handicapped myself with a SHC). It's that they bring DMG, DMG brings Match Score, and Match Score is what the challenge is based upon.

Some suggestions for match score balancing, if I may...

- Weigh the score for damage done by the type of mech doing the damage. Lights should get a little better score for hitting 250, 500, 750 DMG, because they generally carry fewer and less powerful weapons, so achieving the same damage as the guy in the KGC is relatively impressive when you're in a RVN. This should reflect in Match Scores, and if it somehow already does, then it should reflect even more.

- Weigh the relative value of the mech killed in scoring a kill. That is, if I kill a stock CDA, it's not so big a deal as killing a very custom DWF. Sure, the Cicada moves faster and is smaller, but the Whale has a LOT more armor and structure, and has a LOT more weapons with which to return fire. Killing the latter is usually considerably more impressive than killing the former. With this talk of rebalancing perhaps taking some BV-like mech value into account, it shouldn't be so challenging to consider THAT value when deciding what a K is worth.

- Perhaps weigh the relative value of the mech from which the kill is made, like above. If I kill your Marauder (THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THAT, PGI!) with a LCT and had the most-damage-on-kill bonus, that should weight more heavily on my Match Score than if I did it from an AS7 with LRMs from a distance, and only just finished it off. Seriously, I had a match once where I did exactly 4 points of damage and had a kill. Last shot fired in the match, didn't even get the full burn of a single ML on the target before it fell, and that was the ONE shot I hit that match. Got the same credit for the kill as if I had worked that mech over for a whole minute. But that's just not right.

- Some extra bonus for winning by kill when you're the last mech on your team, or when it's a come-from-behind win. Say, as I saw happen yesterday I think, a guy in a RVN-3L(C) finds himself alone, outnumbered 5-to-1, and manages to finish off the match. Sure, he already had 7 kills and some ridiculously high damage output, to buff his score. Still has to be worth more that his kill ended the match in a win, and that he accomplished the turnaround win. SOLO. Dude's match score damned well should have been a four-digit number, but it wasn't. (Probably WOULD have been, had he done more damage.)

- Different DMG scores for damage done to mechs that were eventually killed, and those that were NOT. Say we do .25 Match Score for every point of DMG done to enemy mechs that survive, but .40 for every point of DMG done to enemy mechs that are eventually killed. Add 0.10 for every point, across-the-board, if it's a win, and another 0.05 if the player survives (win or lose). Whatever. Something like that. You get the idea.

The current match scoring system is pushing players to play heavier, deadlier mechs. That's fine if all you want to see are heavy and assault mechs in every match, or only new players out there grinding up lights to earn money for heavier mechs. But I don't think this is that sort of game, and I don't believe that's what PGI intends.

Who knows, maybe I'm preaching to the choir, and PGI already suspected as much. It would explain the challenge event's parameters. "Let's put a match-score-based challenge out there, and see what everyone chooses to use for a mech and loadout. You know, see how our match scoring system is working." Would not surprise me.

If so, then you have your answer. Current match scoring system is TOO biased toward damage, with little emphasis on things that matter (like WINNING, there, Charlie Sheen)...

#2 Sader325

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 09:48 PM

I think I've been trolled.

#3 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:04 PM

Um, sorry?

#4 Smith Gibson

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:31 PM

He means getting the kill does and should count for very little. just because someone hit last with a pair of medium lasers after the rest of your lance tore off most of your opponent's armor doesn't mean the last one to do damage was the most important contributor to the kill.

Meanwhile, PGI should be upping the reward for "Kill-Most Damage".

#5 Khobai

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:40 PM

its definitely wrong that someone who gets kills with headshots and backstrikes gets punished for it.

damage scoring should be weighted based on the location thats hit. hitting mechs in more lethal locations should be worth more than hitting mechs in less lethal locations.

hit locations should be weighted in order of value as follows. the multipliers are just examples and can be changed to anything, but it illustrates the value of each hit location based on its lethality and difficulty to hit:

x5 head
x4 back ST (with XL)
x3.5 back CT
x3 front ST (with XL)
x2.5 front CT and back ST (without XL)
x2 legs
x1.5 front ST (without XL)
x1 arms

so head hits should be worth the most and arm hits should be worth the least. and lethal locations should be worth more than non-lethal locations.

players should be rewarded for killing efficiently and lethally rather than being rewarded for spraying damage all over the place.



Also the way kills work should be changed. The game should award fractional kills based on the percentage of weighted damage you did to the mech. If you did 90% of the weighted damage you should get 0.9 kills for example. Getting the killing blow shouldnt give you 100% of the credit.

By awarding fractional kills you get rid of the need for players to constantly steal kills and pad their stats. That undesireable behavior in players will no longer be rewarded. There will be less incentive to compete against teammates for kills.

Edited by Khobai, 21 September 2015 - 01:24 PM.


#6 627

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 10:53 PM

nice.... screen shots?

lol, press F12 man :P

#7 V O L T R O N

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 11:42 PM

Killing blow is rewarded less than solo or most damage dealt, so wtf are we talking about?

#8 Lily from animove

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:18 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 September 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

its definitely wrong that someone who gets kills with headshots and backstrikes gets punished for it.

damage scoring should be weighted based on the location thats hit. hitting mechs in more lethal locations should be worth more than hitting mechs in less lethal locations.

hit locations should be weighted in order of value as follows. the multipliers are just examples and can be changed to anything, but it illustrates the value of each hit location based on its lethality and difficulty to hit:

x5 head
x4 back ST (with XL)
x3.5 back CT
x3 front ST (with XL)
x2.5 front CT and back ST (without XL)
x2 legs
x1.5 front ST (without XL)
x1 arms

so head hits should be worth the most and arm hits should be worth the least. and lethal locations should be worth more than non-lethal locations.

players should be rewarded for killing efficiently and lethally rather than being awarded for spraying damage all over the place.



Also the way kills work should be changed. The game should award fractional kills based on the percentage of weighted damage you did to the mech. If you did 90% of the weighted damage you should get 0.9 kills for example. Getting the killing blow shouldnt give you 100% of the credit.

By awarding fractional kills you get rid of the need for players to constantly steal kills and pad their stats. That undesireable behavior in players will no longer be rewarded. There will be less incentive to compete against teammates for kills.



that is still flawed, because when you kill a mech form the back its suddenly x4, while probably others have stripped it already, and suddnely you get alow % due to this.

tbh, the game should calculate killingefficincy by distributing the HP a mech has left to the poeple that killed it. And when every HP left is mroe worth than HP damage done, killing efficiently will net you more scores than striping and needing ages for killing a mech.

distribute these points by % on who did how many damageon the emch before it died and you should have a lot more accuracte measuerment of killing efficiency.

#9 SnagaDance

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:44 AM

View PostTheRAbbi, on 20 September 2015 - 08:51 PM, said:

Okay, first have a look at the below match summary. I scored TWO kills in a victory. 186 DMG, 2K, 5A, Match Score 164. LOWEST ON THE TEAM. Lower than FOUR (4) other players, who scored no kills and died before the end of the match.


I feel your pain. I took my Gaussjager out for a Skirmish on River City. Played a great game, ducking between buildings, using teammates their locks to help start charging my guns as I appeared, analyzing the target info to hit those critical locations.

Great game. I had 5 kills and 2 assists, with ~320 damage.

And 204 match score iirc..... :(

#10 Roughneck45

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:57 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 September 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

damage scoring should be weighted based on the location thats hit. hitting mechs in more lethal locations should be worth more than hitting mechs in less lethal locations.


So much this.

#11 GernMiester

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:58 AM

186 dmg.. you did nothing but get 2 lucky shots and barely graze 5 other mechs but you want MOAR REEWARDZ!

Kills are lucky shots, stop thinking its skill, it isnt.

#12 ColourfulConfetti

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:59 AM

Funny thing, I instantly made the last match score for the tier 2 on the solo queue by purposely spraying everybody with my quad uac 10 direwolf. 2 kills 1024 damage. Pretty ****** kill count for a top tier assault, but hey, I got alot of damage by spraying everybody and not aiming at specific components. I learned the hard way that going for kill shots and being accurate in this contest will **** you over royally in terms of matchscore. I eventually stopped trying to kill people and just sprayed everybody I saw with the clan autocannons. Relying purely on the incapacitation factor to keep myself alive rather than shooting to kill the nearest threat. That line of thinking earned my my final matchscore, pitiful, aint it? The way they calculate matchscore is a joke.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 21 September 2015 - 11:08 AM.


#13 TamCoan

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:01 AM

Yeah, the scoring is incredibly weighted towards high damage. If you care about match score, which was the point of this weekend, and aren't playing high damage, slow kill builds, you will not do well. I know I've had matches where I was literally the linchpin that allowed my team to win. Flanking the enemy team with an ECM light, providing constant targeting information, enemy movement and keeping target locks on out-of-position enemies will net you no c-bills, no damage and no match score. Nothing like a hail of, "you were an awesome scout!" and being greeted by a match score below 100.

Honestly it's better to ignore the match score and just play the best you can.

#14 Khobai

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:05 AM

Quote

that is still flawed, because when you kill a mech form the back its suddenly x4, while probably others have stripped it already, and suddnely you get alow % due to this.


thats not how it would work

because only the armor would be considered in the back. the internal structure wouldnt be considered as part of the back of the mech. it would default as being in the front.

Quote

Killing blow is rewarded less than solo or most damage dealt, so wtf are we talking about?


were talking about when you get a headshot you get less points then if you shoot arms and legs off then kill the mech. killing mechs efficiently isnt rewarded as much as killing them slowly.

Edited by Khobai, 21 September 2015 - 11:08 AM.


#15 ColourfulConfetti

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:12 AM

View PostKhobai, on 21 September 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

were talking about when you get a headshot you get less points then if you shoot arms and legs off then kill the mech. killing mechs efficiently isnt rewarded as much as killing them slowly.


Aside from that rng garbage, this is exactly why this contest is such a colossal failure, PGI really shouldn't attempt a tournament again until they properly reward accuracy and efficiency. What kind of backwards ass system punishes you for quickly removing an enemy threat from the field?

Edited by PalmaRoma, 21 September 2015 - 11:15 AM.


#16 xengk

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:12 AM

Damage and kills are not counted highly for match score, it award more team play achievements.
The more you have to scroll your match performance window the better the score.

2 kills, 1 assist, 679 damage on a lost.
420 blaze it match score
Spoiler


An extreme case with 650 match score.
Spoiler


#17 ColourfulConfetti

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 11:14 AM

View PostGernMiester, on 21 September 2015 - 10:58 AM, said:

186 dmg.. you did nothing but get 2 lucky shots and barely graze 5 other mechs but you want MOAR REEWARDZ!

Kills are lucky shots, stop thinking its skill, it isnt.


I'm going to take a wild guess and assume you play lrms quite frequently.

#18 SnagaDance

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:45 PM

View Postxengk, on 21 September 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

Damage and kills are not counted highly for match score....


2 kills, 1 assist, 679 damage on a lost.
420 blaze it match score

You do realize that 340 pts of that match score is actually based off damage right? That's ~80% of your score.

#19 Mister Blastman

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 12:54 PM

Damage hurts enemies. To damage enemies you have to stop hiding to hurt them. If you wait in the back for someone else to damage and kill steal them after most folks are dead... did you contribute? Or did you breathe on their necks?

Damage should definitely be a big component. What shouldn't score any points at all is killing disconnected 'mechs.

#20 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 01:03 PM

View Post627, on 20 September 2015 - 10:53 PM, said:

nice.... screen shots?

lol, press F12 man :P
IMac keyboard. Doesn't play well with MWO for some reason, but works fine through Steam. :-/ The day will come.





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