81 replies to this topic

[Spleenslitta]

sycocys, on 21 September 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Better maps, may as well use the standard ones until they actually make some.

I agree. The current CW maps are all bottlenecks and unclimbable walls. It leads to outright slugging matches with very little movement or tactics.
I quit CW after playing about 10 CW matches when it was introduced to MWO. Despite not having played CW for so long i have seen few new maps.
All CW maps are about the same slugmatch crap and it isn't possible to do a good flank attack while still having escape routes.
No escape routes because there are so many unclimbable walls.

[Bashfulsalamander]

El Maestro, on 23 September 2015 - 12:29 PM, said:

I would love to see continous battle combined with safe spawn points:

Safe spawn points => let the dropship drop you off at the spawn point with least enemies nearby. (No pilot is dropping off stuff in a hot LZ when there are better options nearby)

continous battle => if your 4 mechs are done, you are replaced with a fresh pilot with 4 mechs until one side wins. (only complication will be counter attack win conditions)

What do you guys think?

A safe drop zone would cause camping and trolling... Secondly that would require larger maps if they wanted to make it so it could not be exploited from trolls, and it would require new programming for multiple alternate drop zones. Lastly please dont ever use REAL LIFE as an example this is a fantasy game, where we run around in giant robots shooting lasers... a Real invasion would be a lot more different even in a fantasy world. Frankly PGI just does not have the resources they would need to create a real invasion.

ThomasMarik, on 23 September 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I wouldn't have said what I said if it wasnt taking us a good 10 minutes to find a match. People rarely fight on our border Even in Phase one when we were expanding everywhere It took about an hour of ghost drops before whoever we were attacking felt threatened enough to bother defending. Want to know why Marik was so efficient at the light rush? There it is we had ALOT of practice. We would challenge ourselves on what the fastest and most efficient way to take out the generators was just out of sheer boredom waiting for people to show up. Then when people did show up we would treat them with kid gloves and make them think they had a chance and a good fight so they would come back again.

More recently the wait time is around 8-9 minutes before a pug team will show up. With the new rules of alternating between attack and defend It is usually now takes twice as long to actually take a planet. The change to alternating attack modes was detrimental to the low population houses even as it was needed on fronts that has constant action.

What used to take 2-3 hours now takes about 5. What used to be a long night became impossible for anyone who has a job. Lowering the initial wait time to 5 minutes brings things back to a reasonable 2-3 hour mark to take a planet. Hell it brings it back to a reasonable 4-5 minutes wait to find a match vs pugs if not a unit.

This isn't about us wanting ghost drops. Quite the opposite. We just want to force people to show up within a reasonable match wait time. Forcing people to defend is why there are ghost drops in the first place. It is there so you can't just ignore a front that is being attacked. This also isn't about anyone PUGing in CW. I know very few people who would even bother with a PUG group especially vs clans. Hell I know very few people who will even bother dropping as a group in CW. Marik stopped fighting and all of the above is a big reason why.

first of all i do not care about the Marik front.. been there done that. in fact i remember being part of the Draconis force that closed your worm hole in phase 1. Secondly it should take multiple 12 mans to take a planet not just one, so it can easily be taken quickly if they are multiple good 12 man teams.. or i should say better 12 man teams. 10 minutes is not much time for BAD GAME PLAY PENALTIES.. what does that mean? it means they are punishing you for trying to ghost drop while giving other teams time to form up and wipe the floor with you. You claim you want to "force" players to drop against you, but you do not seem to understand that at the moment people do not care about the planets unless there is a reward for taking them. If there is a 12 man out there looking they will see you qued up for on the planet and will have 10 min to assemble their team... how is that not a good thing?

"[color=#959595]More recently the wait time is around 8-9 minutes before a pug team will show up" [/color]

BTW if you want to hunt Pugs you have to drop on the planets where most of them are....

[Davegt27]

Lol every tactic that has been used people cried about until it was taken away or nerfed


Want me to go down the list
I started to make a nice long list about the stuff that was changed since Dec but what’s the point

I think it was the first or second drop a spider jumped on top of the gun
I thought what a great idea a few days later came the zerg rush

They cried and cried until it got nerfed

Pretty funny

Edited by Davegt27, 23 September 2015 - 01:53 PM.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Spleenslitta, on 23 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

I agree. The current CW maps are all bottlenecks and unclimbable walls. It leads to outright slugging matches with very little movement or tactics.
I quit CW after playing about 10 CW matches when it was introduced to MWO. Despite not having played CW for so long i have seen few new maps.
All CW maps are about the same slugmatch crap and it isn't possible to do a good flank attack while still having escape routes.
No escape routes because there are so many unclimbable walls.

I kind of agree with this, but when you are in an enemies base why would it not be filled with bottlenecks? Also an escape route? that would mean that a team actually retreats in this game, which doesnt really ever happen except for the one guy that went in when he was not supposed to. I will say it would be nice to be able to attack from other directions( north, south, east, and west.). But at the same time the bigger the map the more players it requires unless you want it to feel like an abandoned base.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Davegt27, on 23 September 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

Lol every tactic that has been used people cried about until it was taken away or nerfed


Want me to go down the list
I started to make a nice long list about the stuff that was changed since Dec but what’s the point

I think it was the first or second drop a spider jumped on top of the gun
I thought what a great idea a few days later came the zerg rush

They cried and cried until it got nerfed

Pretty funny

Most of the nerfs they have applied have improved CW Light rushing was far to easy before the increase in turrets and generator shields. The super sniping was also really easy... infact still kind of is i know i have done it a couple weeks ago just for giggles, but they want to force players into a brawl. or at least mid ranged engagement and there is nothing wrong with that since you actually need to attack to... well attack. As for the dropship buffs and lag time it certainly does punish mechs that have been CT'ed while providing good covering fire while they drop cargo. and any one that says they do not have never made it to them i guess. Mechs body blocking the Omega gen was really not much of a problem but hell why not make it impossible. and mechs that jump on top of the gen really wasnt a problem either... you could still shoot them or drop arty on them, but hell it looks better with a shield over the gen and it also looks better with out a firestarter standing on top of it.

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 23 September 2015 - 02:16 PM.

[Bashfulsalamander]

[Karl Marlow]

Bashfulsalamander, on 23 September 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

first of all i do not care about the Marik front..

Suddenly the problem comes into focus. Its not about the Marik front. Its about all fronts of which Marik is one.

[Elizander]

From what I've picked up from PGI, Solo Queue is the main focus that they want to sustain and this is where the bulk of the players are. They will not make any move to damage the solo queue population for the sake of CW or the Group Queue.

While I agree that CW needs much better (non c-bill/mc/stuff you can get from the store-type) rewards, I think they are waiting to see if Steam will bring in enough people and if they can sustain the population level high enough to make CW a thing.

[WANTED]

Speed up CW by reducing the amount of attack zones on a planet and make it so if you spend 1hr or so to take a planet. People need faster rewards. It's like baseball, great game but it's losing appeal due to the slowness of the game. These days everyone wants quick instant gratification. CW goes against what you get in pug matches.

[Khobai]

Quote

CW ( community warfare) ..... what is part of a community? groups, so what happens when a lone wolf tries to take on a pack of wolves? it dies... that is the way the world works and honestly i am glad its like that in MWO.. maybe players will learn to join a unit, use VOIP, and form groups...

Except there arnt enough groups to populate all the factions and keep CW going.

Who mostly populates the factions? Its pugs not groups. CW catering to groups and not pugs was always a terrible idea for that reason.

Its time to evolve CW to include pugs as well. Which means no more pugstomping by premades.

Edited by Khobai, 23 September 2015 - 02:55 PM.

[Karl Marlow]

WANTED, on 23 September 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Speed up CW by reducing the amount of attack zones on a planet and make it so if you spend 1hr or so to take a planet. People need faster rewards. It's like baseball, great game but it's losing appeal due to the slowness of the game. These days everyone wants quick instant gratification. CW goes against what you get in pug matches.

Could you imagine the outcry if they mandate a 10 minute time between PUB matches? Heck make it a 5 minute wait to find a pub match and see how fast these forums melt.

[Bashfulsalamander]

ThomasMarik, on 23 September 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

Suddenly the problem comes into focus. Its not about the Marik front. Its about all fronts of which Marik is one.

and there is no problem with the fronts other then the fact you ghost drop on planet to "force pugs into defense"... which does not work since they will go where the numbers are.

Elizander, on 23 September 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

From what I've picked up from PGI, Solo Queue is the main focus that they want to sustain and this is where the bulk of the players are. They will not make any move to damage the solo queue population for the sake of CW or the Group Queue.

While I agree that CW needs much better (non c-bill/mc/stuff you can get from the store-type) rewards, I think they are waiting to see if Steam will bring in enough people and if they can sustain the population level high enough to make CW a thing.

Indeed there are not enough of players.. because of the number one whine.... groups VS. pugs.... which (read the following)

Khobai, on 23 September 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Except there arnt enough groups to populate all the factions and keep CW going.

Who mostly populates the factions? Its pugs not groups. CW catering to groups and not pugs was always a terrible idea for that reason.

Its time to evolve CW to include pugs as well. Which means no more pugstomping by premades.

This idea is stupid... plain and simple.. when you go against a group as a solo player you should be downright owned... CW was made leaning towards actual team play, which groups are better at since they actually co-ordinate with each other. And yes there may be more pugs, but groups are what makes CW go around pugs are just those weak slimes you grind for XP in a dungeon and Groups are like the Boss fight. quantity over quality > always fails in games.

WANTED, on 23 September 2015 - 02:53 PM, said:

Speed up CW by reducing the amount of attack zones on a planet and make it so if you spend 1hr or so to take a planet. People need faster rewards. It's like baseball, great game but it's losing appeal due to the slowness of the game. These days everyone wants quick instant gratification. CW goes against what you get in pug matches.

Reducing attack zones is completely unnecessary by doing that you would limit how many can drop on the planet you would also... once again reward ghost dropping. CW should not be quick that is why it gives you 8 hours.... It should go against what you look for in pug matches. Maybe if they added Solaris then pugs would be happy with the whole i want to run around aimlessly and just shoot my bright lights. Im sure every one wants a Rotary guass rifle as well, but that does not make it right.

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 23 September 2015 - 03:23 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

This idea is stupid... plain and simple.. when you go against a group as a solo player you should be downright owned... CW was made leaning towards actual team play, which groups are better at since they actually co-ordinate with each other. And yes there may be more pugs, but groups are what makes CW go around pugs are just those weak slimes you grind for XP in a dungeon and Groups are like the Boss fight. quantity over quality > always fails in games.

again what dont you understand. there arnt enough groups to keep CW going.

CW is already dying because a lot of groups and pugs have quit.

the only way to sustain CW is to get more pugs involved. that is a fact. and even PGI has admitted which is their whole reason for adding a 4v4 mode to CW for pugs.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Khobai, on 23 September 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

again what dont you understand. there arnt enough groups to keep CW going.

CW is already dying because a lot of groups and pugs have quit.

the only way to sustain CW is to get more pugs involved. that is a fact. and even PGI has admitted which is their whole reason for adding a 4v4 mode to CW for pugs.

sorry for the delayed response i was busy playing CW with my unit..... against some slimes and a 9-12 man group from the FRR. So yeah they are adding a small 4v4 que, but groups will still dominate it like always... and pugs will whine as always. I HAVE EVEN ADMITED THAT THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH PLAYERS... so do not say i do not understand when i know that.. But making CW oriented towards PUGS is stupid the very concept of CW is geared towards groups playing that is why planets can only be taged by.... UNITS... Pugs serve as cannon fodder... as extras... dont like it well tough maybe you will get lucky and go against other pugs, but do not punish group players with larger wait times on their target planets for when planetary bonuses do come out by restricting them to only group v group matches.. Slaughtering slimes is fun, but easy and relaxing.. competing against another group is hard and very competitive these two thing exist in CW to balance the whole thing out. the problem with CW is the players not the games mechanics.

[Bashfulsalamander]

My solution to this is simple.. so simple that PGI is already doing it. events... weekly events heck even daily events. Maybe even events which lead to another event with bigger rewards. Such as Kurita needs to take planet 1 to get (discount mechs type X). OR Kurita needs to take planet 1 ... after completion they get 1 day premium.. now this leads to Kurita needs to take planet 2... reward kurita gets 5 days premium and discount on Mech X.

From the transmission events they where doing i saw a nice increase in players even if there where no rewards for the opposing faction.. what does this say? people like CW, but some only if there is a big page telling them they can earn chump change. So the two combined and created a good environment for CW.
Planetary bonuses will defiantly fix this problem as well.

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 23 September 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[Flaming oblivion]

The biggest fixes cw needs if you want to survive off the life support machines its been on for the last few months.

1)Balance team skill

2) Split pugs and groups

I know this opinion will be unpopular for some , Which is fine cw will remain on the life support. Till even the machines can't save it

above post

No people like free stuff

They hate cw and have to be bribed to be seal clubbed , Soon as the event goes they leave CW/

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 23 September 2015 - 04:46 PM.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Flaming oblivion, on 23 September 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

The biggest fixes cw needs if you want to survive off the life support machines its been on for the last few months.

1)Balance team skill

2) Split pugs and groups

I know this opinion will be unpopular for some , Which is fine cw will remain on the life support. Till even the machines can't save it

above post

No people like free stuff

They hate cw and have to be bribed to be seal clubbed , Soon as the event goes they leave CW/

So in other words you want a matchmaker for CW? well that would increase the Wait times by alot because you have how many planets? how many players per faction? Not to mention PSR that would be a nightmare. Also if people did not like CW we would not even be talking about it right now. There are alot of people that like it, but complain about lack of rewards vs time in game. Its basically just solo que with longer wait times. That is what people don't like and PGI has done all they can to address that, but for some unknown reason people just do not take advantages of it. Join a Unit, use LFG, use Voip, and actually play on a planet that people are dropping on. If there is no one playing then there is no one playing go shoot stuff in solo que and check CW in the Prime time.... that is when most people get on. there are 52 clan wolves on right now in CW... that is not much but that is also a single faction, so its really not hard to find a match.

Edited by Bashfulsalamander, 23 September 2015 - 04:57 PM.

[Flaming oblivion]

No lets be honest, People don't like the wait times that I agree with .

But what people don't like a lot more is the tryhards roflstomps that cw revolves around no matchmaker what so ever,

most matches can be potentially decided before a shot is fired.

And the mechs you can take and loadouts are extremely limited. Because of the elitists who currently dominate the mode.

Your right people do currently play cw but not a lot its on life support,

The ones playing are mostly the elitist try hard meta humpers, With the occasional pug no doubt dabbling in a game or so a month , But the try hards smash him so hard he learns his lesson not to touch that mode often.

I honestly think cw will remain on life support because the try hards will do whatever they can to stop the changes it needs.

But its fine when they convince the devs the changes that fit their agenda will fix CW and the devs do it and it doesn't work and the try hards blame the devs, And leave the game through CW being a ghost town with no seals to club, CW will finally be but out of its tragic miserable existence, And we will see if PGI will survive yet another major failure.

[Bashfulsalamander]

Flaming oblivion, on 23 September 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

No lets be honest, People don't like the wait times that I agree with .

But what people don't like a lot more is the tryhards roflstomps that cw revolves around no matchmaker what so ever,

most matches can be potentially decided before a shot is fired.

And the mechs you can take and loadouts are extremely limited. Because of the elitists who currently dominate the mode.

Your right people do currently play cw but not a lot its on life support,

The ones playing are mostly the elitist try hard meta humpers, With the occasional pug no doubt dabbling in a game or so a month , But the try hards smash him so hard he learns his lesson not to touch that mode often.

I honestly think cw will remain on life support because the try hards will do whatever they can to stop the changes it needs.

But its fine when they convince the devs the changes that fit their agenda will fix CW and the devs do it and it doesn't work and the try hards blame the devs, And leave the game through CW being a ghost town with no seals to club, CW will finally be but out of its tragic miserable existence, And we will see if PGI will survive yet another major failure.

WOW i sense some butthurt in these words, so tell me where the bad man touched you using this doll. They dont need to change CW they need to add dropship mode to the instant que so all the mindless Pugs in this game can go around a larger map in a larger circle then complain they left the assaults behind or the lights ran too far ahead. Community warfare is meant for the Community, which consists of both groups and pugs, so yeah like a match between my unit and you alone... this argument was over before it started.

[Flaming oblivion]

I dont need to tell you, I'll just watch cw continue on its current course. Because when i said this would happen months ago , People like you told me the same things and CW would be thriving now . I'm laughing now. I will laugh harder in a few more months.