81 replies to this topic

[Bashfulsalamander]

Hotthedd, on 02 October 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Well CW could use a "let's start anew", because there is no way to "fix" everything that is broken.

My example was just a suggestion about how it could be implemented. Hell, the first phase could be a 4 v 4 scout phase.

Completely destroying the ability to take 4 mechs in a single battle IS a fix. Respawns are arcade-y and lazy. I don't care to play a MechWarrior game that plays like the movie "Edge of Tomorrow".

Well, i suppose that is your opinion and while i do not agree with it because many people in the past have asked PGI for a drop ship mode, which is delivered via Invasion mode. At least is its a respectable view. But i still feel abandoning the current maps and game mode would be a bad idea. first of all you state re-spawns are too arcade style and lazy, but that is really no different then just throwing a match after another match on possibly a random map attached to a picture of a planet... i find that far more lazy on a development level personally. At least with the current wave system it gives a chance for a close game if its even teams as well as the teams getting to chose how to attack per wave... or defenders pushing out for a preemptive strike on the 2nd, 3rd, or final wave. I feel this is a good way to break away from the current solo/ instant cue.

[Hotthedd]

Bashfulsalamander, on 02 October 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Well, i suppose that is your opinion and while i do not agree with it because many people in the past have asked PGI for a drop ship mode, which is delivered via Invasion mode. At least is its a respectable view. But i still feel abandoning the current maps and game mode would be a bad idea. first of all you state re-spawns are too arcade style and lazy, but that is really no different then just throwing a match after another match on possibly a random map attached to a picture of a planet... i find that far more lazy on a development level personally. At least with the current wave system it gives a chance for a close game if its even teams as well as the teams getting to chose how to attack per wave... or defenders pushing out for a preemptive strike on the 2nd, 3rd, or final wave. I feel this is a good way to break away from the current solo/ instant cue.

"Drop Ship Mode" could mean that you have a drop deck of 4 mechs, and you can use each one if you want to/have to. It does not have to mean in-match respawns. As a matter of fact, doing particularly well and having little damage from the previous round gives you the option to stay in that mech for the next round.
There would be no need to abandon the current maps. The ones we have could be used. They would not be random, but linked. For example: Alpine for the first map would give you Boreal for the second (and possibly third). CW should feel like a Campaign, not a single skirmish.
Honestly, we see this differently. In my experience, the wave system does not favor coming back from a deficit, it amplifies it. The last waves are usually just for farming. Yes, some matches are close, but I actually see more close games in the solo queue of regular mode than in CW.
I get that you enjoy the change of pace from the standard maps, and I don't begrudge you having fun any way you choose. But if we are looking to "fix" CW, it should "start (mostly) anew".

[John Gun]

Well i'm new to MW:O and i just started poking into CW so to speak.
I don't see any reason so far to split between pugs and premades.
Sure, there is no question about premades ruling most of the time, but isn't that the way it should be?
The comunicate, they play together and so on...BUT...its not as if pugs couldn't actualy use Voip and at least try to play more like a team.
Its just seldom used it seems, and if so, there are somewhat often those ppl who give a **** because they (think) they know better.
I for myself noticed that in those cases going into battle with a team that's at least some part premade or when there is someone knowing what he does and taking the lead (and the ppl actually listen) we had some intense matches and if no win at least it was fun.

Not to mention that in a match with teamplay my own kill/assist/dmg done ratio increased a good deal oposide to those matches that were everyone for themselfs and getting stomped.

The best way to get fun in CW seems to be getting into an active unit wich i might do when my time allows it and when i'm a bit more into the game.

The second best option: why not make better use of voip and at leat try instead of going on about how not fun it is to pug?

The same thing might go for the matchmaker, i often get thrown into teams with obviously more experienced players, but is that such a bad thing?
How better learn and get motivated to get better myself then compete against "better" players?

Edited by John Gun, 02 October 2015 - 02:11 PM.

[MechPorn]

You could also try dropping the # of 'Mechs needed per person for the group down to 2. Decrease the weight limit to 125 to 150.

[Ace Selin]

The fix imo is the same as it has always been ......
MAKE CAPTURING & OWNING PLANETS ACTUALLY MEAN SOMETHING ...
- Extra Unit Coffer Cbills for holding a planet.
- Unique variant mechs that can only be purchased by people who hold a planet (be it anyone in the Faction or just the unit holding the planet).
- Hold a planet for X days receive Y
- Discounted standard (Faction related) mechs for planet owners.

[Flaming oblivion]

Quote

Its not going to continue its current course.. its going to add content such as game modes, maps, rewards, and faction roles. so no you do not need to tell me because i do not need a blind man telling me the future.

When was phase 3 supposed to be out a month ago ? 2?

Whens the revised date? Middle of next year?

Yeah you're right.

Because last time PGI started revising with CW it took years. Years to create this absolute joke of a mode.... And they've had two attempts at fixing it since it came to life and its still broke as hell. Talking about being blind your the one showing blind faith when everything that's happened with CW tells anyone with sense this is a disaster they aren't capable of fixing in a timely fashion at best . Probably wont fix it at all.

I have faith bro.

Edited by Flaming oblivion, 04 October 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[CranstonSnord]

This is just my own thoughts on the matter, and I'm not a very elite player, but have been trying CW for a while.

The PUG vs Premade issue won't be solved on that alone, and yes a premade should in general beat a PUG every time. I would say though that so far, the defense is at a definite disadvantage in the two scenarios that are currently available. For defense, the terrain doesn't give the defender any real advantage in most cases, and they're left with the penalty of trying to survive and defend, which often puts them at a disadvantage. I'd suggest a few tweaks. 1) the defensive objectives could be made a little tougher, a few more hit points, and 2) not be able to be sniped from afar.

On counter attack, again the planet's defenders basically have two objectives, and the attackers merely need to survive. It really means that the planet's defending force needs to eliminate all attackers and any other outcome favours the invading force. I think this could be tweaked.

Now unfortunately, it seems that the PUGs are always put in the position to defend, since a premade can line up on an invasion and dictate which battle they get to fight. Now maybe I haven't seen everything, but are there any IS premades getting into CW? I only ever see Clan ones. This means clan premades are always against inner sphere PUGs. Is there clan in fighting matches? Are there IS House vs House warfare? If not there should be, it might bring more people out, since I don't see any premades vs premades happening.

Personally I'm reminded of the tabletop tournament play where me and another lone mechcommander would be lining up on the IS side of the table, against a whole line up of clanners. One advantage for the IS in those set ups is my company (or sometimes companies) had far more coordination than each of the individual clanner mechs all looking to Pwn! some IS butt. Which resulted in a more even match (I had a lance of Urbies take out a heavy clan star once! With some judicious use of forest cover and a surprise AC/20 set up, but still, glorious day!)

I would say the immediate fix to the problem would be to find a way to encourage combatants to side with the IS, to which right now there is none. Different rewards possibly? Increased C-bills for defending? House loyalty similar to premium time?

On the topic of the IS vs Clan imbalance, we see the IS has all the inferiority of the boardgame with none of the perks. Here's a short list of odds eveners:

1) Hatchets. Seriously, I want an Axeman and be able to walk up to mechs and melee.
2) MRMs
3) Wolcott and Luthien type scenarios. Maybe a few defense maps where the IS gets ECM turrets?
4) Working C3. If you go through the trouble to get four friends to fit it with you, you deserve to have a huge benefit.
5) Company vs Binary. 12 IS vs 10 Clan.

Just thoughts, you don't have to agree with them.

[Havyek]

John Gun, on 02 October 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

Well i'm new to MW:O and i just started poking into CW so to speak.
I don't see any reason so far to split between pugs and premades.
Sure, there is no question about premades ruling most of the time, but isn't that the way it should be?
The comunicate, they play together and so on...BUT...its not as if pugs couldn't actualy use Voip and at least try to play more like a team.
Its just seldom used it seems, and if so, there are somewhat often those ppl who give a **** because they (think) they know better.
I for myself noticed that in those cases going into battle with a team that's at least some part premade or when there is someone knowing what he does and taking the lead (and the ppl actually listen) we had some intense matches and if no win at least it was fun.

DING DING DING!!!

The problem isn't pre-made vs. PUG, it's pre-made vs. PUG mentality.

Enough of the PUG population thinks in terms of memememememememe that they won't follow instructions, they won't play as/with the team, and they prefer to hide back and "snipe" with a erLLAS then push with the rest of the team.

Playing 8 or 10v12 is very difficult to muster a win, ESPECIALLY when players that work together generally play better.

[CranstonSnord]

Havyek, on 04 October 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

DING DING DING!!!

The problem isn't pre-made vs. PUG, it's pre-made vs. PUG mentality.

Enough of the PUG population thinks in terms of memememememememe that they won't follow instructions, they won't play as/with the team, and they prefer to hide back and "snipe" with a erLLAS then push with the rest of the team.

Playing 8 or 10v12 is very difficult to muster a win, ESPECIALLY when players that work together generally play better.

Very true, but I would say that there definitely needs to be something to encourage more premades on the side of the IS. But that said, in a lot of the pugs, I see a lot more teamwork than one would expect. I would be interested to see how a IS premade fared against a clan PUG. Anyone got a video of it, record of such a win? The current state of the galaxy seems to indicate a preponderance of clan premades.

[Cerberus Rex]

Havyek, on 04 October 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

DING DING DING!!!

The problem isn't pre-made vs. PUG, it's pre-made vs. PUG mentality.

Enough of the PUG population thinks in terms of memememememememe that they won't follow instructions, they won't play as/with the team, and they prefer to hide back and "snipe" with a erLLAS then push with the rest of the team.

Playing 8 or 10v12 is very difficult to muster a win, ESPECIALLY when players that work together generally play better.

Even for a premade IS team it is very hard and most likely only luck to win against a premade clan team. Clan mechs are faster and have more firepower and more ecm. How often i saw premade clanteams just rushing into is team and while is going to drop 2nd wave claners arrive dropzone and game over. Premades win in 9,5 times over pugs. was before in normal queue and now you have it in cw. But now you even get more awarded in cw for ****** pugs then it was in pug queues.

Premades should only fight against premades. Pugs only vs Pugs.

Pugs vs Pugs where always the team victorious which had the better players. Noob in Clanmech is still noob and just cant use the op power. simple.

-Cause of the opness of clanmechs there are more premade clans then on is side. simple to farm the pugs in is and earn shitload of cbills and xp while doing it. good balance, good encouragement to play the victim (is tech)
-no is vs is, no clan vs clan
-no 10 vs 12
-spawncamping happens on both sides (boring, no fun)
-some maps prefer even more the average speedadvantage for clanmechs (faster on any jokepoint then any is team can be)
-all in all just a playground for the people which are spending 3 times more time or cash into this game to get a fully clanloadout so they can farm the is people cause they have payed for it. Like barcelona gets only 2nd classes opponnents in cl cause they are barca and must be "rewarded" with opponents which are in every aspect outclassed.
- f2p balance at its best and when enough people have clan only loadouts then pgi will come with clan vs clan cause then new clanmechs will be here which will be even more stronger then current ones and only goes for "cheap" 30000000cbills per mech in your garage.
-pgi now starting with a own advertisementteam in a league to get the "i also want to be pro-videogamer" audience with steam onboard.
-total war and the winner will be the people who are spending the most money and time in this game. skill comes second. real balance last.
-till then the new battletech strategygame will be finished and the **** maybe starts from beginning in 3rd person command&conquer style.
-this is when a company is leading a tournament for the players and not the players for themselve like it was before.

So your options as a player are: stop and leave or join the pay to win waggon and get a spot as twitcher, letsplayer, progamer or fail trying which 99% will do.

I choose option 1 and will do more realsport. cheaper and healthier then beeing a keyboardwarrior in a "f2p" concept based videogame.

[Anjian]

CW doesn't need a bandaid. It needs a corpse shroud.

[Tom Sawyer]

If they do not come up with a vibrant changing battlefield with value and fun a corpse shroud it will be covered with sadly.

[Husker Dude]

Obviously the player base is far too small to separate PUG and premade groups, but I think there's been a bit of a failure to properly acclimate new solo players to how different a game CW is from the regular public drops.
I wish I had a precise example, but there's a video about how the opening screens of the original Super Mario Brothers does a fantastic, subtle job of introducing the player to the game. I think CW needs something like this, it's probably not as possible as the Mario Brothers example, but I think the maps could be slightly updated to reinforce good habits; an obvious regroup location that might give a new player pause before immediately rushing back in to reinforce an already decimated team. I know Boreal has the crashed dropship as the obvious rally point, but there's nothing to really stop a re-spawned player from just rushing past it.

I know most experienced players might scoff at the idea of hand-holding, but the learning curve in this game is really steep, and there's really nothing in the CW game design that encourages good habits (besides a terrible experience with bad habits).

Edited by Husker Dude, 06 October 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[Havyek]

CranstonSnord, on 04 October 2015 - 05:13 PM, said:

Very true, but I would say that there definitely needs to be something to encourage more premades on the side of the IS. But that said, in a lot of the pugs, I see a lot more teamwork than one would expect. I would be interested to see how a IS premade fared against a clan PUG. Anyone got a video of it, record of such a win? The current state of the galaxy seems to indicate a preponderance of clan premades.

Well I can only say from my view, pre-made vs. PUG generally ends in a stomp no matter what faction the pre-made is on.

I've also been in a pre-made and beaten by (what looked like) PUGs because the PUGs did something we didn't expect. Use VOIP (or have someone type really really quickly)

[Havyek]

Cerberus Rex, on 05 October 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

Even for a premade IS team it is very hard and most likely only luck to win against a premade clan team. Clan mechs are faster and have more firepower and more ecm. How often i saw premade clanteams just rushing into is team and while is going to drop 2nd wave claners arrive dropzone and game over. Premades win in 9,5 times over pugs. was before in normal queue and now you have it in cw. But now you even get more awarded in cw for ****** pugs then it was in pug queues.

Honestly I stopped reading after this paragraph.

There's no "luck" in a IS team beating a Clan team. IS have heavily quirked mechs that can, will, and do dominate in certain situations.

Bringing a Thunderwub to a long range engagement like Boreal won't get you any advantage, bring a 4 erLLAS TBolt and watch the Clanners cry.
Bring a Dragon 1N to pretty much any map, but ESPECIALLY hot ones and watch everything melt in front of you. I have and do out-dakkaed UAC5 Daisies with a DRG 1N.

Don't bring T5 Mechs because they're "fun" and then complain that Clan mechs/weapons are far superior when you're facing a bunch of Hellbringers, Ebon Jags, and Stormcrows in your 4 PPC Awesome on Vitric.

[Dawnstealer]

masCh, on 28 September 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

If you read what I said, the dropships will always be there but they will not shoot if there are more than a certain number of you already there. So noone will be able to turtle.

If you have 10 mechs at the dropzone, the dropships won't shoot.

If there are 4 of you at the spawn point and only two spawncampers arrive, the dropships won't shoot.

If there are 4 of you at the spawn point and only four spawncampers arrive, the dropships won't shoot.

If there are 4 of you at the spawn point and 7 spawncampers arrive, the dropships will activate.

IF there is only 1 of you at the spawn point, and 3 spawn campers arrive, the dropships will activate.

IF there is only 1 of you at the spawn point, and only 1 spawn camper arrives, the dropships will not activate.

THis generates better match ups. When the odds are heavily against you then the dropships activate.

I do not appreciate what you implied, about letting the game win for me and reward for no effort. You can either apologize, or you can get off this thread?

I'm perfectly fine with the dropship being able to shoot, but make the thing a destructible object. And if you kill it before it can drop the mechs, all the mechs are destroyed. Justify all that super-accurate, CT-destroying, anti-Light firepower.

[Bob Jenkins]

As long as the population is so low that ELO/PSR is not yet implemented in CW, ban trial mechs. New/noob players should stick with the solo que where PSR can help them. They are just cannon fodder. Or, fix trial mechs to make them worth piloting?

Spawn camping is not an issue or a problem. If you get spawn camped, your team was so horrible you should thank the other team for quickly putting you out of your misery. There is NOTHING that PGI can do to give a horrible team of new players a chance against a team of experienced players.

Edited by Bob Jenkins, 06 October 2015 - 02:24 PM.

[Husker Dude]

Havyek, on 06 October 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

Bringing a Thunderwub to a long range engagement like Boreal won't get you any advantage, bring a 4 erLLAS TBolt and watch the Clanners cry.

Hahaha, reminds me of the last time my unit went to the Clan side, I dropped an attack on Boreal and I think every single mech on the defending side was a LL Stalker 4N.
IS mechs can definitely compete, so long as you bring the right one for the job. Teamwork still trumps everything else.

[Dawnstealer]

Husker Dude, on 08 October 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hahaha, reminds me of the last time my unit went to the Clan side, I dropped an attack on Boreal and I think every single mech on the defending side was a LL Stalker 4N.
IS mechs can definitely compete, so long as you bring the right one for the job. Teamwork still trumps everything else.

This is the truth - I dropped as a "fill-in" with NKVA against a 12-man Wolf team and we wiped the floor with them. It wasn't even close. And our builds weren't exactly meta. Oh, sure: there were a couple 4Ns in there, but I had a Locust in my drop deck and I wasn't the only one not ONLY running Thunderwubs, Stalkers, and Firestarters.

I won't say it's "all" about teamwork, but that sure is a LOT of it.

[Corka]

Simplest bandaid for CW?
Increase the rewards. Make hitting CW again and again a more reliable way of earning credits over a regular skirmish. This would make more people inclined to run CW. Which would reduce the queue. Which would make it possible to make it so its pug vs pug and premade vs premade without unduly increasing the amount of queue times or ghost drops.