68 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

I know my brother fields his Vulture (Mad Dog) with 6 LRM5s, LPL and UAC5. (I do believe something like that.) (If this helps any,)

[Chados]

I was going to say that the Vulture seems like it would be the Clans' Catapult that San also pack the biggest, baddest pulse lasers in the inventory.

I played a little with the trial version and racked up almost 400 damage without even breaking a sweat. If this is what I've been missing, I've clearly been doing it all wrong.

[Tesunie]

Chados, on 24 September 2015 - 07:03 PM, said:

I was going to say that the Vulture seems like it would be the Clans' Catapult that San also pack the biggest, baddest pulse lasers in the inventory.

I played a little with the trial version and racked up almost 400 damage without even breaking a sweat. If this is what I've been missing, I've clearly been doing it all wrong.

No minimum range LRMs do help...

[karrade85]

Sorry iraqiwalker been pretty busy of late so my free time was more playing than forum posting. I didn't see your reply to my post till today, I'll be sure to get you a smurfy link of a couple of my setups I have been using within the hour here. Any feedback you give would be very helpful. I admit I'm a little stumped on the whole artemis thing, I have had mixed opinions about it's use for clan mechs.

The main argument I've heard is since clan mechs launchers fire in a stream rather than all at once like the (IS) mechs the artemis system isn't worth the weight penalty. I personally just can't decide on it either, you fit a lot more without it for sure but how many of my missiles would have hit had I had it on? Also is this a true statement?

"- Artemis only works on targets that you have Direct Line of Sight to. If you intend to use indirect fire, Artemis will be a heavy and costly upgrade for very little benefit."



PS: I've learned to put a few er-smalls on most of my LRM setups now for swating those pesky mechs that try to rain on your range parade.


[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b997bcfe4f244d[/smurfy]

from memory it's something like this for the build on one of them. I usually will drop down leg armor to high 30's since I never seem to lose legs. If I die it's always due to torso's blowing out for most mechs I use. I prefer to have at a minimum of 2 tons ammo per launcher or more on my builds. Now I know If I use a madog for CW it runs a bit heavier on the ammo but I'm looking for more of a solo drop build for now.

Edited by karrade85, 10 October 2015 - 10:49 PM.

[karrade85]

Since were talking builds here I got a Dire wolf I'm skilling up as well. I usualy go close to Meta for dakka on it but I'd like to do some sort of laser vomit if I could. I have yet to find a laser vomit dire wolf build I'm happy with, meta has a 6 er-large laser build but the cooling on it is horrible and you pretty much give up an arm since it's armored down to nothing.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

@karrade85:

If that works for you, maybe it'll work even BETTER if you make some tweaks...

I'm a little weird about this, but I'd prefer to have the launchers more uniform. Also, Artemis IV FCS is a great investment, especially paired with the Active Probe and either TAG or NARC. Anyhow, I'd swap the LRM launchers for four LRM-10s with Artemis. Move the AP, the extra DHS, and as much more ammo as you can, into the RT. You might consider swapping out the ERSLs and some ammo for a pair of ERMLs. That's leaving that almost-bare LA, which will be your shield side. You could also push THREE launchers into the RT and the extra stuff elsewhere, but you may as well stay symmetrical for now.

Being uniform with the 10s means a consistent cooldown/reload time on your launchers. I played it down to 1,440 rounds, which gives you a LOT of whoosh with 40 tubes. The 10s will group more tightly than the 15s, and Artemis will hold 'em in even a little tighter yet. OR, you could go with 6x LRM-5, drop the Artemis, and free up even MORE weight. Like THIS. REALLY fast refire. Chain-fire or alpha, and have a fairly reasonable set of backup weapons as well. OR drop the backups, move some things around, and swap two of the 5s for 10s, and keep the 5s and 10s on separate fire groups.

The LRM-5 doesn't really benefit from Artemis much, so you save some weight letting it go. You can make that up with the TAG in that third energy hardpoint in the RA. It retains the AP and a relatively vicious LRM loadout, adds a formidable mid-range direct-fire system that doesn't break ghost heat, and gives you back 100% of your armor.

Also, while I didn't mess with it in Smurfy, you should balance more of your armor to the FRONT torso. 7:1 or 8:1 is fairly reasonable F:R armor ratio for the torso segments on heavy battlemechs these days. Used to be around 2.5:1 or even 3:1, but those days are long gone...

[karrade85]

@Rabbi


Ok still digesting your post rabbi and please don't be discouraged because I think you really might be able to help me get an answer to some things that have been bugging me. One thing stands out right away for me though.

" The 10s will group more tightly than the 15s, and Artemis will hold 'em in even a little tighter yet."

Ok I thought clan mechs fired via stream so why is grouping tighter for a smaller launcher?
Artemis helps with LOS targets only so.... A lot of times you shoot at an LOS target and they pop back to other side of the crest or hill and then Artemis would no longer be in effect right?
granted you take radar deprevation to maintain lock but is artemis helping at this point?
Inderict fire does not benefit from artemis correct? On some maps inderict fire is most of what I have to do so why use the tonnage for something you use part of the time?


I'm a numbers guy so my problem with artemis is I can't find a hard number on how much it helps. So many variables when anyone plays and all I'm told is it gives tighter grouping and better tracking. How am I suppose to equate that? Is there an average like out of every 100 missiles shot 25% more hit target? Without any sort of hard data I feel that's like telling me these tires are better than those tires but not stating why.

Edited by karrade85, 10 October 2015 - 11:38 PM.

[karrade85]

Oh and as for front to rear armor ratio..... How do I say this hmmm...Well I suck at killing lights. Like really really suck at it. If a light comes at me and starts circle jerking me with 1 little laser he will eventually cripple or kill my ass because I am just horrible at turning to catch the little bugger. Even mediums can do this to me at times or at least the faster ones.

So I have been loathe to remove back armor. Does everyone really do this? If I have only 6 armor on the back CT I die after anything more than 6 dmg pretty much right? I read somewhere people talking about structure points but I'm unsure what or how much that is. I'm guessing I'm missing something here that I should really learn about.

Also the side torso's look like high shoulder joints on most mechs so my concern is any LRM missiles that rain down will splash damage the back and the front of the upper torso's since they are coming from above.

[karrade85]

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1b997bcfe4f244d[/smurfy]


Hmmmm... What about ghost heat though? once you get beyond 4 LRM 5's the penalties really start increasing. I'm seeing a different philosophy in your build as well, it seems as if the chain firing is more desirable than the alpha in this build. I always thought alpha on the LRM's would be more effective since the enemy usually takes cover once they start taking missile fire.

Also why does Artemis matter more for anything above a 5? So does say 2 out of the 5 track well but with artemis it would be 3 out of the 5?. Sorry to bombard with questions but I think I have been missing out on some key points in the building and use of LRM launching mechs.


[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfe327a4af2b141[/smurfy]

Now the LRM 5's are only 1 ton while a 10 is 2.5 so you pay an extra half a ton for the 5 extra missiles. The LRM 15 however takes that penalty tonnage down to a extra half a ton for 10 extra missiles. Thus My build goes with the LRM 15's and 4 LRM 5's since the ghost heat beyond 4 is more than I care for. Is this making any sense or am I missing a big factor in my decision making on builds here?

[Rhavin]

I never move back armor to the front, alot of players do though. I never add any armor to the back either.

Buying a stormcrow is a good idea if you want to play clans, even if you begin to shy away from lrms ( and you probably will as you gain tier ) you can begin to boat lasers or gauss lasers. vulture is a brutal lrm boat as well, but it suffers in the hit box area.

Stormcrow is a great mech, likely best medium in the game. I used to recommend hunchbacks to new players but stormcrow in reality is what I should have been recommending all along. As long as you can deal with fixed equipment and engine size it's the way to go. The versatility offered by omnipods and the advantages of clan weapons are impossible to ignore.

It will take more time to purchase, and therefore elite 3 stormcrow because of the cost but you should end up more than satisfied with performance of the chassis than a hunchback or trebuchet.

[Johny Rocket]

I wish I would have spotted your thread sooner. I have an obsession with Mediums and Lrms.

The best IS medium and possibly best Lurmer in the Game is the Kintaro(KTO) 18. The KTO Golden boy is a close 2nd because of its engine cap. Check the 2 builds in this thread. The 19 does 4 lrm5 and 2 LL nicely and the 20 only has 3 but carries 4 lasers.
The Griff 2N builds almost the exact same as the KTO 18 but trades 1 lrm5 and 2 tons of ammo for ecm and JJ.
http://mwomercs.com/...ache-kid-build/ the 2nd is my battle tested build.
For pugs you should give the KTO a try. Check out the KTO 18(C) trial build. Just remember its not elited.

What launchers to use is a conversation that has to be divided by IS and clan since the missiles behave differently.

IS launchers launch all the missiles at once or group by the number of tubes. An lrm20 might only have 10 tubes depending on mech or hardpoint location, it will fire 2 spitballs of 10 missiles. This will never happen with an Lrm 5 though. Basically what is happening is the stated launcher size determines how many missiles track together. Even the double tap 10 tube lrm20 all 20 missiles track together even though they are split up. This means there is a lot higher chance of the 2nd spitball in the group hitting dirt.
Lrm5 and 10 hold much tighter patterns than 15s or 20s which means you will often do more damage with an Lrm 10 than 15 because more missiles actually hit the target. This is important on moving targets, the faster they are moving the more important it is. There is a relock time on the missiles, they don't continuously adjust flight, you can see this when they are tracking a target crossing your path the missiles do a zigzag as they correct. You can watch the majority of an Lrm15/20 hit dirt right behind a fast moving mech where the Lrm5s less missiles are tracking together and the grouping is tighter you hit more on the legs (awesome for killing lights)

ChainFire, (DPS builds) some people call it LRM spam I call it chain rattling because that is what you are after, a steady stream that constantly hits the target, this causes never ending screen shake and explosion blindness.
The KTO 18 comes with 5x Lrm5 you could do 3-4 10s but a 5 weighs 2t and a 10 is 5t.
5 lrm5s with quirks and cooldown module produces the chain rattle effect better than anything else and renders your opponent pretty well helpless unless he can get to good cover.
Plus it does incredible damage in a short amount of time.

Only a few other mechs that can Lurm this intensely and they are all much bigger losing the speed and mobility the KTO brings to the table. It has a Barn door profile but has a very wide fast twist. and elited the xl300 nets you 97.2 kph and it has an engine cap of 360.

Clan Lurms, my experience here is limited though I have owned a Maddog and own a Nova. Maddog is the best Clan Lurmer but is a squishy mech that gets wrecked easily. The Nova is limited in hardpoints. So I'll go with the consensus and say Crow is the best platform. Plus you can launch 3 crows and a Maddog in CW.

Clan Lrms stream all the missiles in a row, literally single file lines, so here smaller launchers should have a better chance of last second flight corrections and multiple small launchers fired at the same time produce multiple streams.
They do the chainrattle nicely by the string nature of the launch, you can really rattle people.

Clan mechs overheat so a lot faster so you will need more heatsinks. My KTO chain rattle build with the ERLL only carries 2 dhs in the engine for a heat rating in the 1.40 range.

Overall my opinion IS lrms are superior to clans.

You are on the right path going medium here, you get a real advantage in mobility and in the ecm era that is important for getting your own locks.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

karrade85, on 10 October 2015 - 11:38 PM, said:

@Rabbi


Ok still digesting your post rabbi and please don't be discouraged because I think you really might be able to help me get an answer to some things that have been bugging me. One thing stands out right away for me though.

Don't worry. If it's not preceded by some insult, I tend not to take stuff personally. And we're looking for what's gonna work best for YOU, not ME, so everything is just recommendation so far. :-)

Quote

" The 10s will group more tightly than the 15s, and Artemis will hold 'em in even a little tighter yet."

Ok I thought clan mechs fired via stream so why is grouping tighter for a smaller launcher?
Artemis helps with LOS targets only so.... A lot of times you shoot at an LOS target and they pop back to other side of the crest or hill and then Artemis would no longer be in effect right?
granted you take radar deprevation to maintain lock but is artemis helping at this point?
Inderict fire does not benefit from artemis correct? On some maps inderict fire is most of what I have to do so why use the tonnage for something you use part of the time?

Clan LRMs DO fire in a stream, rather than a whole bunch all at once. Doesn't necessarily mean that they group more tightly, though. You still get a good bit of spread. I've watched the twin ALRM-15s on my EBJ-PRIME(I) drop a few missiles into the ground around a fairly wide heavy or assault mech, even when someone else is holding TAG on the target for me. IIRC, the cooldown for a launcher doesn't begin until the last missile has left the tubes. It's a way to balance the weapons, then, by making the cooldown take a little longer, and by making the missiles JUST A LITTLE BIT more vulnerable to AMS.

Artemis improves a couple aspects, and you're right, it kinda requires the firing mech to have LOS. It buffs the lock-on time, and it buffs "tracking strength". This also means a tighter grouping at impact, so fewer missiles will miss and hit the ground. And it also means that more missiles will hit center mass. In other words, it helps to concentrate your damage and improve the amount of damage per missile fired. Since not every missile hits the target even when it's in the wide open and standing still, the more damage you can get per missile fired is more effective you'll be.

ALL THAT SAID, I find it better to take Artemis on an LRM-15 than to NOT do so. With LRM-5, it's really superfluous. LRM-10 is kind of a personal preference thing. And LRM-20 is really not worth taking, IMO.

Quote

I'm a numbers guy so my problem with artemis is I can't find a hard number on how much it helps. So many variables when anyone plays and all I'm told is it gives tighter grouping and better tracking. How am I suppose to equate that? Is there an average like out of every 100 missiles shot 25% more hit target? Without any sort of hard data I feel that's like telling me these tires are better than those tires but not stating why.

Improves lock-on and tracking time for LRMs by 50%, according to the MWO wiki (which may or may not be the best reference, but it's a number). That's HALF the time to lock a target, which means a little sooner you can fire, which means a better chance of hitting a target that's making a run for cover or to break LOS. Especially so with the Target Decay module. Whether it's worth the extra weight and critical space, that's up to you. In a dedicated LRM boat, I'd recommend it. In the case of LRMs as a non-primary weapon system, I'd say it's probably not so important. If you're the guy hucking LRM support at the enemy targets as your primary role in the fight, though, then it's better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

There's a ghost heat consideration with the 6x LRM-5 build, of course. Hence, I recommend chain-fire against targets that aren't AMS-heavy. With an LRM-5, you lose a LOT of your DPS to AMS since there are so few missiles in a group. Of course, that build I suggested is pretty good at heat dissipation when you're not also firing the lasers, so you can ALPHA the LRMs now and then if you need to, to ensure a good hit against targets under significant AMS cover.

OR, just go with the 4x ALRM-10 build. Or even forego the Artemis on the LRM-10s. Maybe something like THIS. More heat-friendly, a big alpha. Still some ghost heat to worry about. You're gonna have ghost heat with any combination of LRMs with more than two launchers, except an all-LRM-5 loadout, which requires more than THREE to give the ghost heat. Check the list on Smurfy (equipment > heat penalty). LRM boats get hurt there, and it may be the one reason that anyone still carries LRM-20s. Still, as an LRM boater, you're going to have opportunity to cool down now and then, even if it WILL draw the insults of your tryhard teammates.

OKAY, on to lights.

You say you're not too good at fending them off? Few mechwarriors ARE, in a heavy mech that's primarily a LRM boat and notoriously squishy. Sorry, MDD lovers. But there are some tactics for dealing with those lights. Most importantly, keep ALL the enemies in your forward 90-degree arc. You should NEVER allow an enemy mech within range to be in the REAR arc under ANY circumstances. Now, you say that the lights are fast and you can't keep that forward arc on them? Cool. Then take the REAR arc AWAY from them by putting your back against a wall or other cover, through which they CANNOT attack you. Now they're stuck in your forward 180 degrees (and torso can twist to keep them in the forward firing arc), or they must abandon the fight against your back armor. Yes, you want your back against the wall. And if that light abandons you as a target, you have a prime opportunity to take some parting shots at HIS back. (As a light pilot, this has been VERY effective against me when done well.)

As for which weapons to carry for use against lights, the ERSLs would be better (shorter duration, low heat). On the other hand, you may as well carry something that's also respectable against other weight classes of enemies. Someone's Splat Crow will giggle at those pink lasers while it shreds your mech from fresh in a couple of alphas. The ERML is a slightly better deterrent to him, and it outranges his SRMs pretty handily. The favorite ACH build right now focuses on either ERSLs or SPLs, either of which you pretty easily outrange with the ERMLs.

Keep TAG, though. Your omnipod layout (I kept to that layout in the suggestions) allows an asymmetrical energy weapon layout, with an extra/third hard point in the RA. Shield with the left side, then, and put that TAG on any enemy you decide to fire on. Heck, if your position is already know to the enemy, then just hold the TAG on. It's good counter-ECM, in addition to its bonuses for LRM fire. At one ton, zero heat, and no ammo, it's a SUPERB addition to your mech.

[karrade85]

@Rabbi & @Tractor joe


Thank you,

I finally feel like a have a much more informed understanding about these launchers I have been mounting all this time. Unfortunately I couldn't play Saturday or Sunday but you can bet I'll be trying out this new found knowledge on Monday. It's really going to change how I play LRM's in general from now on.

I was almost always using it as an indirect fire weapon. I'm finding now that while sometimes that's ok, it would be better used as almost a sniper instead. Tagging mechs now makes much more sense than it ever did before if I operate this way. The LRM 5's now make a ton more sense to me were as before I would never mount them, now I will probably make them a priority for my LRM builds.

I will have to keep ghost heat in mind though but if I run say 4 LRM 5's and 2 10's I'll have only a little ghost heat when I alpha right? .68 for having a 4th LRM 5 is next to nothing and the 10's give no ghost heat for only 2 according to the chart. I would guess chain firing those will allow for a near constant barrage as well.

I really, really, really can't wait to play with this new knowledge. I should've been relying on the forums more for my questions rather than trying so much on my own. I'm gonna go crazy on smurfy tonight and spit out some builds on here for me to try later when I get home from work.

[Void Angel]

Er, why did Tractor Joe not even mention the Hunchback 4J when discussing IS Medium missile platforms? Sure, the shakeboat effect from the Kintaro's LRM5 quirks is good if you're dealing with inexperienced players - but the better ones will just... shoot back. With Gauss Rifles. And in terms of damage throughput, volley weight, and heat efficiency - heck, even rate of fire, - the Hunchback 4J's LRM10 armament is superior to any LRM build for the Kintaro, and very hard to beat. The Kintaro is faster, but it's unclear that this really trumps the huge differences in firepower, particularly with with the weight trade-offs necessary for that speed.

In any case, this brings me to an important point that must be understood by anyone learning LRMs: They're going to become less useful as you progress in skill tier and fight better players. It's not that they cannot be used by highly-skilled people at all levels; it's that highly skilled players can get more out of direct-fire weapons. I'm not trying to scare you away from LRMS, though - far from it! Learning to use, and to counter, LRMs is a vital skill that everyone should learn and practice. Just be aware that the weapon system may not remain competitive with other options as you gain skill and experience. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 11 October 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[karrade85]

Ok with me new found knowledge but no way to really test the builds tonight since I can't get on right now here is what I've come up with. Please feel free to comment I really value your guy's input.

Medium mech LRM's

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78ac732d2013a65[/smurfy]

Cooling efficiency on the crow below is 47% us just the lasers. In game I usually go for 1.4 but I'm not sure how that equates to smurfy since it gives me a percentage for cooling instead.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eadd4772f8886d8[/smurfy]

Also since I have almost never used the LRM 5 launchers I'm not sure on my ammo allotment. I usually used 2 tons or more per LRM 15 or 10 launcher. I tend to chain fire a lot but with LRM 5's shooting/cooling faster I may decide to alpha more. The medium lasers give me some punch for when I need it as well although this is getting away from my ER-small fetish.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7979156261d9489[/smurfy]

I love er-smalls not gonna lie and with 6 of them I could just run around with them all in 1 weapon group and do alpha drive byes with the crows speed. Again not sure the heat efficiency I should be going for, this build puts the lasers only at 43% so maybe this is to little? Artemis equipped now that I understand it's effect better. I could take off a small and do some editing I get what you see below.... I think I'll have to just actually play with them and see how it feels to really decide.
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...43fa988e43c586e[/smurfy]


I'll try some mad dog builds in the next post

[Not A Real RAbbi]

karrade85, on 11 October 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

@Rabbi & @Tractor joe


Thank you,

I finally feel like a have a much more informed understanding about these launchers I have been mounting all this time. Unfortunately I couldn't play Saturday or Sunday but you can bet I'll be trying out this new found knowledge on Monday. It's really going to change how I play LRM's in general from now on.

I was almost always using it as an indirect fire weapon. I'm finding now that while sometimes that's ok, it would be better used as almost a sniper instead. Tagging mechs now makes much more sense than it ever did before if I operate this way. The LRM 5's now make a ton more sense to me were as before I would never mount them, now I will probably make them a priority for my LRM builds.

I will have to keep ghost heat in mind though but if I run say 4 LRM 5's and 2 10's I'll have only a little ghost heat when I alpha right? .68 for having a 4th LRM 5 is next to nothing and the 10's give no ghost heat for only 2 according to the chart. I would guess chain firing those will allow for a near constant barrage as well.

I really, really, really can't wait to play with this new knowledge. I should've been relying on the forums more for my questions rather than trying so much on my own. I'm gonna go crazy on smurfy tonight and spit out some builds on here for me to try later when I get home from work.

Just a thought...

LRMs are cool. Dedicated LRM-only boats, though? Not so much.

You're running a Mad Dog, so you've got gazillions of options. That's what the brochure says, anyhow. Heck, you have me considering investing in those things, just for kicks.

I've never really run a pure LRM boat. Even when I did well in a CPLT, it had MLs for backups up close. I have an EBJ that I enjoy running, that runs a pair of cARLM-15s with an AP to support. But it also has five cERMLs with a Mk I TComp, and I find that I rarely alpha strike in that loadout. Rather, I'm in one weapon or the other. If I have line of sight and ideal range (~500-ish meters with the ERML range module), then I'm firing the ERMLs. Otherwise, I'm leaning on the LRMs first. While I'd call the LRMs the primary weapon system, that's more of a nod to their weight and critical space requirements.

What I'm after here, is that a good LRM mech needs to have something to fall back on when LRMs just aren't getting the job done, when the ammo runs dry, or when the launchers are critted out. And that's probably going to be more and more often, as you climb on up through us chumps, especially in a MDD (notoriously easy to isolate torso hitboxes on those, and barely any more armor than a SCR). Not just some last-ditch kind of weapon, like the ERSLs, but something that's respectable and would represent a formidable alpha for a pre-quirk IS light mech. You can ignore the overall mech alpha heat number if you're not using all systems at once, and unless it's freakin' DISMAL, you can probably still get at least ONE alpha off on a hot map without overheating. The 3 or 4 ERMLs on the MDD? Yeah. That's as much firepower as the JR7-F tended to carry, with more range and no ghost heat.

ALSO, check above. Void Angel makes a GREAT point about the viability of other mechs for LRM duties. The HBK-4J gets great quirks for the job, with tonnage and space to spare for respectable secondary armament. Kintaros have some good options, as do Trebuchets. All mobile medium mechs. Though the HBK is slower, it's also smaller. All else being equal, a smaller target is harder to hit, has smaller hitboxes, and is therefore harder to isolate components off of. Throw down on the JR7-O "Oxide" hero mech, and you get a fast light missile boat. Or the Origins IIC Jenner for some real fun, and the HBK in that package should be phenomenal as well. Heck, most mechs from the Locust up to the King Crab can carry some relatively reasonable missiles for their weight. Crazy with the Cheez Whiz? Sure. Drive-by body pierce? Why not! That latter one, BTW, with full ELITE skills unlocked, is heat-neutral with one system or the other, and can hang with BOTH for quite a few alphas. And it's quick, and it's got ECM, and it can TAG its own targets. AND it only gives up 6 points of armor. Just sayin'. That's a MAJOR asset to the team, being able to relocate its ECM support quickly to where it's needed, being able to TAG targets for LRM support, being able to supplement indirect fire support, and having some squirrel hunting chops for late game as well. It's FAR from meta, but it could be a blast.

If you're set on Clan mechs, then the SCR can boat up to five missile hard points AND another energy (the SCR-PRIME head omnipod is a must-have for this reason). EBJ-C has four missile hard points, and the TBR can do four in the torso omnis WITH JJs. These later two will almost certainly leave space and tonnage for more weaponry, so you're kinda pushed into pairing weapon systems. The HBR also has missile hard points in at least one torso omnipod (it's essentially the Clan omnimech rip-off of the Warhammer, which I am SO happy to be getting my hands on after more than three years, come February), though it's not much of a missile mech.

[Tesunie]

karrade85, on 11 October 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Ok with me new found knowledge but no way to really test the builds tonight since I can't get on right now here is what I've come up with. Please feel free to comment I really value your guy's input.

Medium mech LRM's

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...78ac732d2013a65[/smurfy]

Cooling efficiency on the crow below is 47% us just the lasers. In game I usually go for 1.4 but I'm not sure how that equates to smurfy since it gives me a percentage for cooling instead.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eadd4772f8886d8[/smurfy]

Also since I have almost never used the LRM 5 launchers I'm not sure on my ammo allotment. I usually used 2 tons or more per LRM 15 or 10 launcher. I tend to chain fire a lot but with LRM 5's shooting/cooling faster I may decide to alpha more. The medium lasers give me some punch for when I need it as well although this is getting away from my ER-small fetish.

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7979156261d9489[/smurfy]

I love er-smalls not gonna lie and with 6 of them I could just run around with them all in 1 weapon group and do alpha drive byes with the crows speed. Again not sure the heat efficiency I should be going for, this build puts the lasers only at 43% so maybe this is to little? Artemis equipped now that I understand it's effect better. I could take off a small and do some editing I get what you see below.... I think I'll have to just actually play with them and see how it feels to really decide.
[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...43fa988e43c586e[/smurfy]


I'll try some mad dog builds in the next post

Smurfy link 1: Lots of ammo there. Typically, I run 1 ton per 5 tube launcher (AKA 1 ton of ammo per LRM5). If I'm more or less boating, I'd probably add in 1 or 2 tons extra for good measure. Like the back up weapons, always good to have. Only qualm I have, probably too much ammo. Probably for 4 LRM5s, do 5-6 tons of ammo.

Link 2: Lot more reasonable on the ammo. 7 Tons isn't bad. I see you got an extra med laser, which is good. Watch the heat, and try to use the lasers sparingly. I'd have to ask, how many buttons does your mouse have? TAG is good to have on a weapon group on it's own. Then I'd do two for the lasers, one that is an alpha group, and one that is on chain fire. Them, a final weapon group for your LRMs on chain fire. With 4 launchers, you'd create crazy ghost heat if you alphaed them. Fire them in no more than groups of two at the same time, unless you have no heat at that time.

Link 3: I kinda really like #3. I feel that it's more balanced, which may serve you better while you figure things out. LRM15s do tend to have a bit of spread, but with Artemis that should help. I'd probably (quirks permitting) place the Prime head on that, and place the TAG there. You want your TAG as high as you can, so you can expose as little of your mech as possible and be able to TAG over obstructions (move the AP into the CT maybe?). I like how your LRMs can't produce ghost heat, which I feel is a better option. The small lasers will cover your weak spot up close, and for when you are out of ammo. Got a bit of good punch.

Link 4: Same kinda comment as before about trying to get that TAG up high, maybe with a head laser mount. I think this may be your better option so far. You still have close range punch, but you are using more reasonable (on spread and refire rate) LRM10s. Have to be careful of ghost heat, but being only 3 launchers, it shouldn't be too bad I would imagine. (Don't try to shoot all your weapons at once. Probably would be too hot.)




Your builds look good. Similar to my 4J, which has worked well for me since December 2012 (with only slight modifications over time).

[Johny Rocket]

Void Angel, on 11 October 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Er, why did Tractor Joe not even mention the Hunchback 4J when discussing IS Medium missile platforms? Sure, the shakeboat effect from the Kintaro's LRM5 quirks is good if you're dealing with inexperienced players - but the better ones will just... shoot back. With Gauss Rifles. And in terms of damage throughput, volley weight, and heat efficiency - heck, even rate of fire, - the Hunchback 4J's LRM10 armament is superior to any LRM build for the Kintaro, and very hard to beat. The Kintaro is faster, but it's unclear that this really trumps the huge differences in firepower, particularly with with the weight trade-offs necessary for that speed.

In any case, this brings me to an important point that must be understood by anyone learning LRMs: They're going to become less useful as you progress in skill tier and fight better players. It's not that they cannot be used by highly-skilled people at all levels; it's that highly skilled players can get more out of direct-fire weapons. I'm not trying to scare you away from LRMS, though - far from it! Learning to use, and to counter, LRMs is a vital skill that everyone should learn and practice. Just be aware that the weapon system may not remain competitive with other options as you gain skill and experience. =)

The twin Lrm10s on the Hunchie do pack a punch, but it just doesn't cause the nerve shattering constant shake and explosions the Kintaro does, the point is they can't see to shoot back. When elited with a t5 cooldown module+quirks the KTO 18 could do a never ending stream with 4, Always one launcher waiting to launch with 5 of them. Off of chainfire it also packs a bigger alpha with a significantly tighter group. Very cool running mech and can missile alpha a fair number of times, really screws with ams.
On the 19 I can pack 2 LL with 4lrm5s and they only have a slight pause chainfiring.

Some players adapt how they use lrms as they progress and develop tactics to deal with what ever comes along. Sitting at the back boating an assault is really a noob thing to do. Stalkers are tough move up front with it.

karrade85, on 11 October 2015 - 08:11 PM, said:

@Rabbi & @Tractor joe


Thank you,

You are taking on the challenge of the most hated weapon system in the game, some say its over powered some say its a crap weapon, they all will hate you and say mean things in game and forums.

Those of us who love watching the fireworks show devastate an enemy want you to be good at it.

To those ends read this. Forgot to drop it in the 1st post.

http://mwomercs.com/...lrm-boat-pilot/

@TheRabbi not going to quote just for the tid bit but the 4x lrm5 oxide is a hoot on the old caustic. And you can only produce the chain rattle effect with lrm5s with 4+ which is why I discount a lot of mechs.

.

[Void Angel]

Yeah, that shakeboat gimmick won't work on players past a certain level of skill. If you're trolling newbies, by all means take a Kintaro - but if you want the actual best medium missile platform, there's really only one choice.

[Tesunie]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

Yeah, that shakeboat gimmick won't work on players past a certain level of skill. If you're trolling newbies, by all means take a Kintaro - but if you want the actual best medium missile platform, there's really only one choice.

Though a good point Void, just keep in mind the level of the player asking for help. Even then, I'd image the shake from LRM5s hitting still annoy and disrupt higher skilled players.... when it hits (between them using terrain with Radar Deprivation and possibly ECM at the same time...).

Each build and mech I think has it's place. They each have their advantages, and disadvantages. (But I've always had a fondness for the 4J, and none for a Kintaro.)