68 replies to this topic

[DrSlamastika]

LRMs are bad idea for a new player.

[Tesunie]

DrSlamastika, on 13 October 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

LRMs are bad idea for a new player.

Your statement is duly noted, and it's lack of stated reasons are also noted.

Suggestion: Next time you make a statement with such a broad brush, I might recommend placing some reason as to why you feel that way. Might make your idea/concept be a bit more... receptive.

AKA: Why do you feel LRMs are a bad idea for a new player?

[DrSlamastika]

Sorry I sent it from phone.

Ok so why its not good for newbies.

Do you play PUG games or you already in some decent unit?

For good use of LRMs you need a heavy support from you team. (narcs, scouts, etc . ..)

In PUG games its just a waste of tonnage, there is so many ways how to fight against LURMS.

You can just hide behind some structure, you can use radar deprivation, in nowadays every second mech carry ECM, we have AMS, or if we talking abou IS LRM boats you can just run close enough.


And main reason why I think its not good for begin, it will learn you nothing useful.
Just bad habits. You skill will grow slower, then in some mech with direct focused weapons.

LRMs at all dont need real skill.
Just luck and poor team against you

There are many better and funniest ways how to fight in your mech.
Turn it into missile turret is not the real deal for me.

But again just my personal opinion.

Edited by DrSlamastika, 13 October 2015 - 08:44 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

@DrSlamastika:

Fair, and not an observation that I'd argue against anyhow. LRMs are not the powerhouse they once were.

NONETHELESS, I DO recommend that new players at least try out one LRM mech loadout. Why? Glad you asked...

To learn to be effective AGAINST incoming LRM fire, one should understand what it takes to effectively land LRMs on a target. Understanding the task at hand, that being LRM indirect fire, from both sides (the firer and the target) gives opportunity to develop the skills in either position. Too many times, I've seen a relatively newb teammate with the incoming missiles icon over him. And he'd hang out in the open (at least, relative to the direction of incoming fire) in spite of the ZOMG INCOMING MISSILES WE'RE ALL GONNA F***ING DIE ZOMG warning that flashes on his screen, and his teammates' repeated please to get into some cover. It might be more assumption that observation, but I'd bet Dollars to Pesos that he's never really learned to land LRMs on targets before becoming an LRM target himself.

Me? I've tried the Lurming. Had a 5:1 KDR in a Catapult LRM boat after the first stats wipe. Didn't really care for it, though, having no real direct-fire weapons to speak of (2x ML isn't what you'd call 'formidable'). But I have a greater appreciation for what LRM boats DO, what they NEED, and what they WANT. And I do my best to provide that to my teammates, while denying it to my opponents. I'm no super-good player, but I've come a LONG way. (Also, would like to have SOME indication on my own HUD when I'm being designated with TAG. It isn't there today, though NARC is, and AP counter-ECM is also now indicated.)

Anyhow, I'd argue that a new player needs to spend some time in an LRM boat, if only to learn the role so they can better understand how to combat it.

[Void Angel]

DrSlamastika, on 13 October 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

Sorry I sent it from phone.

Ok so why its not good for newbies.

Do you play PUG games or you already in some decent unit?

For good use of LRMs you need a heavy support from you team. (narcs, scouts, etc . ..)

In PUG games its just a waste of tonnage, there is so many ways how to fight against LURMS.

You can just hide behind some structure, you can use radar deprivation, in nowadays every second mech carry ECM, we have AMS, or if we talking abou IS LRM boats you can just run close enough.


And main reason why I think its not good for begin, it will learn you nothing useful.
Just bad habits. You skill will grow slower, then in some mech with direct focused weapons.

LRMs at all dont need real skill.
Just luck and poor team against you

There are many better and funniest ways how to fight in your mech.
Turn it into missile turret is not the real deal for me.

But again just my personal opinion.

You seem to be coming from a Tier 2 paradigm. I'm rising steadily through Tier 3 now, but my stats history pegged me in Tier 4 to start... and there's a much different paradigm at work down there. New players have the perfect opportunity to learn LRMs - lots of people haven't really figured out what they're doing yet, so you don't get punished for learning like you will at higher skill tiers.
I do have to disagree - somewhat - with your assessment of required skill. Using LRMs as a beginner doesn't require skill at all: you just point and click. But if you're approaching the weapon as a student of the game (as you should!) you'll quickly note that getting the most out of your volleys requires you to work on your positioning, and get as close to the fight as you can without taking too much damage. This skill set is valuable in other roles, and it is that almost instinctive feel of when to fire and from where that separates a really good LRM jock from the crowd - and believe me, there aren't very many of them. I've found that it does take skill to use LRMs well, and the Tier 1 pilots I know agree with me.

The problem with LRMs at higher skill tiers is that the alternatives are almost invariably better. So you'll see LRMs at high levels in pug matches, but when the chips are down and prestige is on the line, you're not going to see LRMs very often in competitive comps.

So, I think LRMs are a very good idea for a new player! It allows them to observe the way matches flow without getting immediately blasted, teaches them about the advantages and weaknesses of the weapon platform, and it can teach fungible skills that carry over into other roles. But while I encourage every newbie to pick up an LRM platform, I also caution them that LRMs are not going to carry them all the way through the game, and they need to be prepared to learn other weapons.

[Tesunie]

DrSlamastika, on 13 October 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

But again just my personal opinion.

I will say, as other people said what I wasn't going to for the most part, you are completely entitled to your opinion. Just understand, at least I disagree with it (and apparently two other people as well, for the same reasons I do, so I wont say it again).

There is no problem with your opinion, and it's good to know your reasons. There was a purpose to me asking why, as saying why may sway a new player for or against your opinion. Even if I'm against your opinion, I still want new players to see why other players feel LRMs aren't in a good play. Lets them form a more informed opinion of their own.


AKA: I may disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and wanted other players to see why you are saying what you are saying.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Void Angel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:37 AM, said:

But while I encourage every newbie to pick up an LRM platform, I also caution them that LRMs are not going to carry them all the way through the game, and they need to be prepared to learn other weapons.

I'd like to qualify that a little, if I may.

A PURE LRM boat is almost invariably a BAD idea. That's pretty well established. So, in addition to learning the LRM, and to learning from a small distance how the matches flow, that new player in the LRM boat needs to also have another weapon system, preferably an energy weapon. GMan129's LRM builds on metamechs.com are usually pretty good for this. My own only current LRM build is an EBJ that humps a pair of Artemis LRM-15s, but also has 5 ERMLs. I tend to do more damage with the lasers, to be perfectly honest. The LRM system is good to have when enemies mess up and get observed in the open.

But the point is, that a good LRM mech is going to have a good alternate weapon system. In my EBJ above, the LRMs I consider to be the secondary weapon system. If it's a LRM-primary mech, that's cool. But there still needs to be another weapon system, and it needs to NOT be only a last-ditch, crapping-my-pants-now kind of weapon, but something that can be employed in support of maneuver.

[Tesunie]

TheRAbbi, on 13 October 2015 - 10:52 AM, said:

...that new player in the LRM boat needs to also have another weapon system, preferably an energy weapon.

Oh, I could post up a lot of mixed range builds, some have LRMs as a clear secondary weapon, and others with it as a primary weapon but with lots of other weapons still.

I do like my balanced builds...

[Johny Rocket]

OP don't take the tiff over Hunchie vs KTO to seriously, we really are splitting fine hairs, there both good, try em both.

DrSlamastika, on 13 October 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

Sorry I sent it from phone.

Ok so why its not good for newbies.

Do you play PUG games or you already in some decent unit?

For good use of LRMs you need a heavy support from you team. (narcs, scouts, etc . ..)

In PUG games its just a waste of tonnage, there is so many ways how to fight against LURMS.

You can just hide behind some structure, you can use radar deprivation, in nowadays every second mech carry ECM, we have AMS, or if we talking abou IS LRM boats you can just run close enough.


And main reason why I think its not good for begin, it will learn you nothing useful.
Just bad habits. You skill will grow slower, then in some mech with direct focused weapons.

LRMs at all dont need real skill.
Just luck and poor team against you

There are many better and funniest ways how to fight in your mech.
Turn it into missile turret is not the real deal for me.

But again just my personal opinion.

So much assumption and the old "800 meters in the back" argument.
I have an answer for your whole opinion on the matter.



Can show you this same basic concept across 10 different mechs that can run enough lrm5s.