112 replies to this topic

[Legend_]

Article here with some strong views and opinions.

[Deathlike]

This may disappear into K-Town, but I'm not sure what it will accomplish.

If things were really thought out.. in steps.. instead of random machinations (that we saw in the PTS, and other examples and instances), we wouldn't be at this point.

It's one thing to go with a bad plan, but at the very least think the damn thing through first.

[Mcgral18]

Article summed up: Grab Deals, Nerfinator, bad communication.


They aren't wrong.

I'll wait for the next PTS, preferably one with weapon balance, before laughing at the Nerfinator again. (...LOL, MG nerfs...) I do hope he realizes that mechs will never really be balanced against one another if the weapons themselves aren't balanced (without looking at weapon mounts or hitboxes).

If Missiles are Terrible, and lasers are good, the mech with 5 laser hardpoints will outperform the mech with 5 Missile hardpoints.

[Lugh]

All too accurate

[Sarlic]

Mcgral18, on 23 September 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Article summed up: Grab Deals, Nerfinator, bad communication.


They aren't wrong.

I'll wait for the next PTS, preferably one with weapon balance, before laughing at the Nerfinator again. (...LOL, MG nerfs...) I do hope he realizes that mechs will never really be balanced against one another if the weapons themselves aren't balanced (without looking at weapon mounts or hitboxes).

If Missiles are Terrible, and lasers are good, the mech with 5 laser hardpoints will outperform the mech with 5 Missile hardpoints.

Article is spot on. To be honest, if you compare to other games; MWO is terrible. But it's has such great artwork and a incredible strong nostalgia fanbase. Atleast in my opinion it is.

[Sarlic]

One thing i disagree is this:

Quote

PGI needs to open up proper lines of communication with the competitive community so they can really learn how best to balance the game.

In my opinion they In fact some have brought more trouble then good. A silly council proposal was made, but never formed. PGI has too little experience with balancing.

Call a external developer with major experiencing in balance and more. Hire decent developers who worked at big studios and a proper guy who can work with values and math.

Listening to comp players will once again screw up the game. For the rest the article is spot on.

Edited by Sarlic, 23 September 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Sarlic, on 23 September 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Listening to comp players will once again screw up the game. For the rest the article is spot on.

I'd prefer that to what the Nerfinator has done in the past. Neutering SRMs, nerfing MGs, "Normalizing" Pulse Lasers (making them rubbish), 2s burn time cERLL with Ghost Heat (at a 12 multiplier?) at 2 lasers (only 1 safe).


If SRMs could be made viable and Factions made closer but still different, that would be good for the game. What the Nerfinator has done has not been good for the game.

[Sarlic]

Mcgral18, on 23 September 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

I'd prefer that to what the Nerfinator has done in the past. Neutering SRMs, nerfing MGs, "Normalizing" Pulse Lasers (making them rubbish), 2s burn time cERLL with Ghost Heat (at a 12 multiplier?) at 2 lasers (only 1 safe).


If SRMs could be made viable and Factions made closer but still different, that would be good for the game. What the Nerfinator has done has not been good for the game.

Point is that PGI is obviously missing experience. As explained in the article. In my opinion you should get feedback from comp players but not 'listen' or 'follow' their lead. Difference right there. Gather feedback and then get someone capeable of plus and min with experience in balancing games or whatever you name it.

Listening to that scene will only cause more problems. However gathering and analysing data is fine.

[Satan n stuff]

Sarlic, on 23 September 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Article is spot on. To be honest, if you compare to other games; MWO is terrible. But it's has such great artwork and a incredible strong nostalgia fanbase. Atleast in my opinion it is.

If you compare it to other MW games, MWO is also the most balanced, strange as it may seem.

[Sarlic]

Satan n stuff, on 23 September 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

If you compare it to other MW games, MWO is also the most balanced, strange as it may seem.

Perhaps should have made myself more clear: balancewise: yes / perhaps. But indie developers or other bigger developers beats PGI tenfold in communication and solid (qa) works.

Edited by Sarlic, 23 September 2015 - 11:47 AM.

[stjobe]

Sarlic, on 23 September 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Point is that PGI is obviously missing experience.

No, the problem is that the wrong people think they can do things they cannot. And they won't listen to anyone saying anything different.

Go check out what some employees say about them at glassdoor, the earliest entry is from 2008 and it says:

"Advice to Management
Stop trying to design games or manage production when you can't do either. Hire a designer. Hire qualified production leads. Stop trying to do those things."

Seven years later, they still think they can do those things.

[Sarlic]

The U.I. horror cant be unseen!

I think some who were involved have been killed to keep it secret what happened there behind the scenes. Popped a UAV and blew up their houses.

[Satan n stuff]

Sarlic, on 23 September 2015 - 11:46 AM, said:

Perhaps should have made myself more clear: balancewise: yes / perhaps. But indie developers or other bigger developers beats PGI tenfold in communication and solid (qa) works.

Correction, *some* indie developers do. Believe me there are plenty that are worse than PGI in every possible way. In fact I'd say the majority are. Who do you think make most of the worst games on Steam?

[waterfowl]

Jesus, MWO is not a competitive game, it's not CS:GO, it's not DOTA, it should definitely NOT be balanced around what the best players have in mind. I mean, yeah their opinions are useful, but they shouldn't be the only opinions listened to.

That said, I think they really need to open more lines of communication. Instead of shoving something onto the PTS, make a forum thread about it. As in, 'We're considering doing these changes: xyz. What do you think, playerbase?' Maybe even make a dedicated ingame popup section with developer posts so people know to read them.

Someone needs to figure out how the **** to fix 'infotech', and it sure as hell isn't going to be PGI unless they hire a prodigy game designer.

Satan n stuff, on 23 September 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Correction, *some* indie developers do. Believe me there are plenty that are worse than PGI in every possible way. In fact I'd say the majority are. Who do you think make most of the worst games on Steam?

*cough*dayz*cough*

Edited by waterfowl, 23 September 2015 - 11:54 AM.

[Davers]

While the article has some points, it also keeps drudging up the past without giving it it's due.

Brings up 3rd POV without adding "and the huge outcry of the community became a whisper when they saw how it was implemented and no one complained about it ever again."

Brings up Gold mechs without adding that IGP was responsible to all pricing, and that Gold mechs were a purely cosmetic feature that added nothing to the gameplay.

Brings up the 'mistreatment of Founders' without adding that Founders received in full everything that they had paid for. I didn't become a Founder expecting eternal gratitude and praise from PGI, but maybe I am alone in this.

It's also funny how the outcry against consumables also included that they were not powerful or useful enough. Where is the outcry over Cool Shot now? Another complete over-reaction from the community.

The article does raise some valid questions, it also feels like the author has an ax to grind.

[Satan n stuff]

waterfowl, on 23 September 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Jesus, MWO is not a competitive game, it's not CS:GO, it's not DOTA, it should definitely NOT be balanced around what the best players have in mind.

That said, I think they really need to open more lines of communication. Instead of shoving something onto the PTS, make a forum thread about it. As in, 'We're considering doing these changes: xyz. What do you think, playerbase?' Maybe even make a dedicated ingame popup section with developer posts so people know to read them.

Someone needs to figure out how the **** to fix 'infotech', and it sure as hell isn't going to be PGI unless they hire a prodigy game designer.

No it shouldn't, but when players clearly demonstrate something is overpowered or underpowered you expect something to be done about it, hence the upcoming rebalance that will probably break the game in new and exciting ways and will likely require more band-aid solutions to "fix".

[Sarlic]

Satan n stuff, on 23 September 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:

Correction, *some* indie developers do. Believe me there are plenty that are worse than PGI in every possible way. In fact I'd say the majority are. Who do you think make most of the worst games on Steam?

Look i am not going to nag about who or what. There are some high quality indie devs over there doing PGI's job.

Ofcourse there are terrible indie developers as well who managed to screw up. I believe i had a excel sheet somewere of succesfull games from Kickstarter with information about a succes, a failure or even abadoned their projects.

Here it is: https://docs.google....s_home&sle=true

Point is that PGI should do better. Indie devs has smaller playerbase but PGI could watch and learn..

Edited by Sarlic, 23 September 2015 - 12:04 PM.

[Davers]

waterfowl, on 23 September 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Jesus, MWO is not a competitive game, it's not CS:GO, it's not DOTA, it should definitely NOT be balanced around what the best players have in mind. I mean, yeah their opinions are useful, but they shouldn't be the only opinions listened to.

The only reason it's not those things is because of how poorly balanced the game is. I think the use of 'meta/non-meta' is inappropriate for MWO. I think we should just stick to 'good/bad'.

[Sarlic]

waterfowl, on 23 September 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

Jesus, MWO is not a competitive game, it's not CS:GO, it's not DOTA, it should definitely NOT be balanced around what the best players have in mind. I mean, yeah their opinions are useful, but they shouldn't be the only opinions listened to.

That said, I think they really need to open more lines of communication. Instead of shoving something onto the PTS, make a forum thread about it. As in, 'We're considering doing these changes: xyz. What do you think, playerbase?' Maybe even make a dedicated ingame popup section with developer posts so people know to read them.

Someone needs to figure out how the **** to fix 'infotech', and it sure as hell isn't going to be PGI unless they hire a prodigy game designer.



*cough*dayz*cough*

Russ and E-sports.. more like cash sports.

Going to be a though ride for sure. Steam launch will blow more shznit in the fan! Ultimate cash out.

Edited by Sarlic, 23 September 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[Flaming oblivion]

If they got someone that understood balance , And implemented it and fixed weapon balance rather then mech balance this game would be in a much better place immediately .

Unfortunately I highly doubt it will happen.

They do seem to communicate poorly and when they do communicate it seems to be about the latest mech pack even the townhalls are packed with new mech packs , When that's the only way you communicate often it smacks of a cash grab . bad for business.

Again I think weapon balance is the main problem, and bad communication, I also think listening to the 1% of elite players may help but you would have to be careful they have a biased view on balance ..... And remember to fix it for the majority not the minority .

I also agree that if there was another mech warrior title out there this game would be in severe trouble that tells you there doing things wrong.