51 replies to this topic

[Evan20k]

I've had this theory for a while and the more I play, the more I think it's true. The real reason lasers are amazing is because so many maps have really bad collision meshes that snags projectiles where they otherwise shouldn't. This is especially noticable on PPCs, which will always keep them inferior to LPLs. The fact that lasers are hitscan means that there's several places where lasers can fire and projectiles just cannot fire back (HPG and Tourmaline are the worst offenders). Of course this goes completely out the window in a brawling scenario, but long range projectiles meant for sniping will struggle against an opponent behind almost any kind of cover compared to the ease that they can return fire with lasers. Thoughts?.

[Yellonet]

River City just a few minutes ago?

[Evan20k]

Yellonet, on 23 September 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:

River City just a few minutes ago?

And HPG before that. PPCs got caught on a light pole twice when visually it should have easily cleared it.

[zagibu]

I think that's mostly a PPC problem. At least I don't notice it nearly as much with ACs.

But yeah, it's another thing that makes lasers preferrable. Not the most important, in my opinion, though.

[Ultimax]

Evan20k, on 23 September 2015 - 03:00 PM, said:

I've had this theory for a while and the more I play, the more I think it's true. The real reason lasers are amazing is because so many maps have really bad collision meshes that snags projectiles where they otherwise shouldn't. This is especially noticable on PPCs, which will always keep them inferior to LPLs. The fact that lasers are hitscan means that there's several places where lasers can fire and projectiles just cannot fire back (HPG and Tourmaline are the worst offenders). Of course this goes completely out the window in a brawling scenario, but long range projectiles meant for sniping will struggle against an opponent behind almost any kind of cover compared to the ease that they can return fire with lasers. Thoughts?.

Ballistics got mildly nerfed.
PPCs got heavily nerfed.
Easy to boat Lasers with 500m effective ranges were introduced.
Ballistics & PPCs have a higher skill floor.
Ballistics & PPC builds tend to cap out an alpha of 35 to 40 at the high end before things like extreme tonnage or ghost heat show up.


It's not rocket science.

[Weaselball]

They're hitscan weapons. No travel time. No lead time. No projectiles you have to worry about slipping behind or just past an enemy.

If you can keep your pointer over a mech and you can click your mouse button, you can hit with a laser.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

[zagibu]

Weaselball, on 23 September 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

They're hitscan weapons. No travel time. No lead time. No projectiles you have to worry about slipping behind or just past an enemy.

If you can keep your pointer over a mech and you can click your mouse button, you can hit with a laser.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

Of course, this, and the fact that they don't need ammo, is their main strength. Those things are also difficult or impossible to change.

Edited by zagibu, 23 September 2015 - 03:49 PM.

[Khobai]

theres countless reasons why lasers dominate right now

hitscan, instant travel time, no dropoff from gravity, dont use ammo, long-range, low tonnage/critslot usage, dont have to expose yourself much if you have high mounted energy hardpoints, easy to hit light mechs with them, easily boatable and get massive bonuses from quirks/targeting computer, easy to combo them in ways that circumvent ghost heat, etc...

and basically any weaknesses that lasers have gauss complements perfectly (and vice-versa). which is why laser/gauss is so prevalent.


its pretty common sense that short range weapons like srms should outdamage long range weapons, but lasers/gauss completely violate that balancing principle. which is why its become the new meta. they need to nerf long-range and buff brawling to the point where both coexist in about equal proportion.

Edited by Khobai, 23 September 2015 - 04:00 PM.

[Davers]

What would it take to create a 'ballistic meta'? Would greatly increasing the velocity of the 2,5,10 be enough? Like, if they were at gauss speeds.

[Mazzyplz]

the worst part is that the developers are happy about making the easiest weapon to use also the most effective;
cause "it makes the game accessible"

even though the weapons that take a little bit more effort like ppc in all fairness SHOULD be more effective, because you are putting more effort in

[Alistair Winter]

Weaselball, on 23 September 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

They're hitscan weapons. No travel time. No lead time. No projectiles you have to worry about slipping behind or just past an enemy.

If you can keep your pointer over a mech and you can click your mouse button, you can hit with a laser.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

Hitscan weapons didn't always dominate the MWO meta.

PGI decided to bring in Clan lasers with way too low heat and quirks for Inner Sphere mechs with huge heat reduction, while also giving pretty solid buffs to all pulse lasers.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

[Flaming oblivion]

Nothing should be more effective then anything else , Atleast not so outrageously , If it is your playing a terrible pvp game that won't last long,

Every weapon should have strengths and weaknesses and every weapon should be viable , You should be able to win a duel with a equally skilled pilot no matter what weapons you have equipped and they have equipped.

None of this has been the case in MWO since I joined , Because its a terribly balanced game.

There have always been one or two weapons vastly more powerful then everything else. Rendering every other weapon system either a rare sight or completely obsolete.

All you see these days are gauss and lasers, Occasionally you will see a ac user, VERY rarely a lrm pilot, Everything else is obsolete.

Because pgi doesn't believe balance is real.

[zagibu]

Alistair Winter, on 23 September 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Hitscan weapons didn't always dominate the MWO meta.

PGI decided to bring in Clan lasers with way too low heat and quirks for Inner Sphere mechs with huge heat reduction, while also giving pretty solid buffs to all pulse lasers.

I think THAT is what makes them so good.

Yes, you are right. Maybe you remember the short time before the clans invaded and after the nerf of the poptart meta? Balance was pretty good then. Well, flamers and SRMs sucked like always, but otherwise it was pretty balanced. Even LRMs were not THAT terrible, because ECM was less prevalent and not everyone had 20 radar deprivation modules to fit on all their mechs yet. I remember good games in all kinds of mechs, from 2xLRM10 Hunchback over mixed loadout Thunderbolt to 4xAC/5 Jager.

[Cerberias]

Dires can easily run 98pt laser/gauss vomit builds. Ghost heat is a large problem. PPC's got overnerfed because PGI haven't even got half a clue as to how this game actually plays and the mechanics behind it.

[Bigbacon]

low weight, high damage, less slots, can carry lots of them, broken heat system, and instant damage is what makes them the only real worth while weapon in the game.

[sceii]

I could use PPCs all day if they were a little bit more heat effective at least 9/12 heat for standart and er.

[Troutmonkey]

PGI just need to implement cone of fire whenever 30+ points of weapons are fired together. Would pretty much solve the issue over night.

[zagibu]

sceii, on 23 September 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I could use PPCs all day if they were a little bit more heat effective at least 9/12 heat for standart and er.

Maybe 8/12 even.

[El Bandito]

When you have a weapon that is easier to use than LRMs, and is not as situational and dependent on the team, naturally everyone will flock to it.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 September 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lasers are best because they offer the best of every world and have no worthwhile negative.

PPCs: Slow traveling, Hot, slower Cooldown, heavy, big
ACs: big, heavy, slow velocity, ammo dependant
LRMs: Inaccurate, heavy, slow, big, ammo dependant
Lasers: Light, small, long range, no ammo dependancy, good dmg/heat ratio. Hit scan vs velocity.

Yeah...I have tried the 4x CERPPC build on my Warhawk. Compared to the LPL build it just doesnt compare. PPCs, despite being PPD, just simply are to hot for the dmg they deal, travel to slow to be used at thier appropriate range and between quirks and this nad that, they pale in comparison to lasers.

Shoddy terrain collision is just another nail in thier coffin.