37 replies to this topic

[Amsro]

skorpionet, on 24 September 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

You wrote:

• If a players' team loses, but the player does exceptionally well (achieving a very high Match Score), the player will go up slightly in skill rating.
  
• If a players' team loses, but the player performed well (achieving a high Match Score), the player will not move in skill rating.
  
• If the players' team loses, and the player performed poorly (achieving a low Match Score), they will drop in skill rating.

Seems that there are match score steps to determine very high, high, low but I think that the algorithm must check overall team performance.




Check this:


This causes a drop in my PSR....



PGI, could you better explain PSR algorithm?

Mates, what's your opinion?

Best Regards

From what I can tell even if you are on the losing team your Match Score is compared to the high scores of the winning team.

Even the winning team only has 3 players that look like they have gotten a + tier rating from that match.

So if you lost and had a 500 match score you probably would have gone up. 300ish stayed put.

[sycocys]

Paigan, on 24 September 2015 - 03:15 AM, said:

^this

I had multiple games like this:

Exactly my issue with it. If I am consistently not just out performing, but in many cases wildly outperforming 50%+ of my team, then why am I stuck going downwards instead of up into a tier where the players around me are going to be at my skill level?

I shouldn't have to play at an output level 2 tiers ahead of where I get ranked by the random MM/crappy events tanking my PSR with this current system, just to move back up to a place where the majority of the people around me are halfway competent.

[sycocys]

Amsro, on 24 September 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

From what I can tell even if you are on the losing team your Match Score is compared to the high scores of the winning team.

Even the winning team only has 3 players that look like they have gotten a + tier rating from that match.

So if you lost and had a 500 match score you probably would have gone up. 300ish stayed put.

Everyone on that winning team got a +. You only need to have a score of around 100 with a win to go up.

But you need to have a score excess of 300 to stay the same on a loss depending on how badly the MM bones you - sometimes 400+ just to stay the same if you have the luck and draw 4+ players that can't be bothered to break 100 damage.

[Idealsuspect]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Just remember:

< 300 = loss

300-400 = same

500 < = gain

Maybe it depend current tier class?

Your numbers should be right for a Tier 2 and wrong for a tier 5 who will raise lose or victory with a simple 200 match score.. ( it would be logical this way )

[Sarlic]

Note: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__4632610

Quote

Please note:
- We will not be disclosing the match score > psr calculations.
- We will not be disclosing your actual PSR value.
- We will only be showing (depending on the result of this poll), the Tier (1-5) you reside in.

I have to do exceptional damage as stated in PGI's post to make it even a PSR green.

Winning the game is almost a positive 100% green PSR rating.

In my experiences the losses are:

402 damage, 0 kills and 9 assists is PSR =
302 damage, 0 kills and 11 assists PSR =
520(!) damage, 0 kills and 2 assists (top of the scoreboards) PSR =

All done in a BASIC Orion.
It seems that the system does not take your personal mech (master)skills into account and i have to do EXCEPTIONAL high damage in a obsoleted mech if you want to make it green.

Example of just a normal green PSR rating. A full win results:

253 damage, 2 kills and 6 assists PSR green.
207 damage 1 kill and 3 assists PSR green.

Meaning over 600 perhaps even 800 range as a heavy to make your PSR go green.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 September 2015 - 06:04 AM.

[sycocys]

Sarlic, notice the assist count for your more average games to keep you at equal - this means you didn't rng a lance full of players that couldn't pull 100 damage - you actually had a team that put up a fight.

From 90% of the matches I've seen since the patch (being dropped to t4) one team ends up with 4-6 monkeys and the other team ends up with 12 humans - I've put up quite a few 500+ damage matches with multiple kills and still lost PSR with a similar approach of using non-basic mechs I'm leveling. If you rng these players 80%+ of the time like I seem to then it really doesn't seem to matter how good you play you are still being dragged downhill.

[Sarlic]

sycocys, on 24 September 2015 - 06:01 AM, said:

Sarlic, notice the assist count for your more average games to keep you at equal - this means you didn't rng a lance full of players that couldn't pull 100 damage - you actually had a team that put up a fight.

From 90% of the matches I've seen since the patch (being dropped to t4) one team ends up with 4-6 monkeys and the other team ends up with 12 humans - I've put up quite a few 500+ damage matches with multiple kills and still lost PSR with a similar approach of using non-basic mechs I'm leveling. If you rng these players 80%+ of the time like I seem to then it really doesn't seem to matter how good you play you are still being dragged downhill.

Yeah, i am just putting these stats for people like you to analyse (and myself) on ;-) It's just intesting to see how the system works at place.

Overall it's funky for sure. It makes me kind of wondering why for example personal mech skills are not taken into account. Or do i sound crazy by saying this?

Now i don't like talking about tiers, but i I think it's more fair if new players with trials and new mechs / basic mechs should have a little bit more rewarding for their already hard to gain tier(?).

The thing i noticed the a teamwin = absolutely almost a green PSR, regarding how little damage you have made.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 September 2015 - 06:10 AM.

[Racersky]

PSR is NOT PSR, rather it is TSR. (TEAM SKILL RATING). IF the team lost the match, THEIR TSR (currently incorrectly called PSR) those members ratings are dropped. (or the very least stay the same) I have not seen where if the member has out performed any other member on their losing team and received a positive (green) rating. TSR!

[Lugh]

Amsro, on 24 September 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

From what I can tell even if you are on the losing team your Match Score is compared to the high scores of the winning team.

Even the winning team only has 3 players that look like they have gotten a + tier rating from that match.

So if you lost and had a 500 match score you probably would have gone up. 300ish stayed put.

They might look like it but I've done matches wherein I scouted and scored only 80 with one kill. In a win score goes up in lost score goes down.

[sycocys]

Racersky, on 24 September 2015 - 06:13 AM, said:

PSR is NOT PSR, rather it is TSR. (TEAM SKILL RATING). IF the team lost the match, THEIR TSR (currently incorrectly called PSR) those members ratings are dropped. (or the very least stay the same) I have not seen where if the member has out performed any other member on their losing team and received a positive (green) rating. TSR!

I think TSR is close, but for everyone outside of group queue its more like RNGTSR. You really have next to no control over the result unless of course you carry hard enough to put at least 8 players on your back and win every match.

But yeah Sarlic I do agree with the info searching and trying to figure out better what exactly is happening.

My averages lately are
400 damage - 1 kill - 2 assists (after you figure in the terrible MM I've been seeing which has resulted in a ridiculous amount of flat out rolls)

On matches where I've got a team that puts up a fight - 4-5 kills min - I'll end up with far more assists and half the time kmd on at least 1 of them. I almost always get 3-4 scouts, flanks, brawling, and several break ecm bonuses, along with the formation and protects everyone should be getting from normal fighting.

Even with this output, almost all the time a loss takes me down, very few times will I get an even unless I hit close to or more than 500 damage. Much of this is to do with the fact that I am regularly seeing multiple heavies and assaults pulling less than 100 damage in each match - this just tanks your entire teams effort unless everyone else is running a meta build and on their a++ game.

Not frustrated with the ranking itself, just the inability of its design to put players into proper tiers because its all based on the MM's rng drawing.

Edited by sycocys, 24 September 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Yellonet]

El Bandito, on 24 September 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Just remember:

< 300 = loss

300-400 = same

500 < = gain

I've gained wth 150+ match score... (in a win).

[El Bandito]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 06:45 AM, said:

I've gained wth 150+ match score... (in a win).

I was talking about in a loss. So is OP.

[Satan n stuff]

skorpionet, on 24 September 2015 - 12:26 AM, said:

Mates, what's your opinion?

Best Regards

Seems legit, those aren't exactly exceptional numbers you put up.

[Gideon Grey]

Besides the question of PSR movement based on performance, based on Apogee's example I think a question of how the matchmaker is worki g based on PSR is still valid.

We know roles or stomps can happen even with "good" matchmaking, due to attrition, but that example looks like a bad match. Do we have a good description of what matchmaker is trying to do nowadays? What is the target? Same average PSR per team? Same distribution? What?

[skorpionet]

Gideon Grey, on 24 September 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Besides the question of PSR movement based on performance, based on Apogee's example I think a question of how the matchmaker is worki g based on PSR is still valid.

We know roles or stomps can happen even with "good" matchmaking, due to attrition, but that example looks like a bad match. Do we have a good description of what matchmaker is trying to do nowadays? What is the target? Same average PSR per team? Same distribution? What?

Yes! What is the purpose of the PSR? This is the real question. Above all this PSR that is 99% based on Win/Loss and DMG.

[Sarlic]

skorpionet, on 25 September 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Yes! What is the purpose of the PSR? This is the real question. Above all this PSR that is 99% based on Win/Loss and DMG.

http://mwomercs.com/...and-psr/unread/

Did you read this?

Edited by Sarlic, 25 September 2015 - 01:13 AM.

[Pjwned]

It could be that it checks the performance of both teams and that everybody on your team got negative PSR because everybody did poorly compared to red team.

[skorpionet]

Sarlic, on 25 September 2015 - 01:13 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...and-psr/unread/

Did you read this?

Only after. Still thinking that the PSR logic must include the overall team performances.