125 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

Vlad Ward, on 24 September 2015 - 08:36 AM, said:

Notice the orange bar in the graph. Streaks. They pretty much solve the "whose experience is more important" discussion outright.

Make Lights viable in competitive play. Let weaker players use lock-on weapons to dismantle them if they can't aim. It's less efficient than real, direct fire weapons for a high skill player, but it's better than missing every shot. Everyone's happy.

See? Really shoulda read the graph.

So you're saying that streaks should only be allowed in lower tiers?
Also, IS streaks are pretty useless, so that would only be a "solution" for Clanners.

[Yellonet]

Lorian Sunrider, on 24 September 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

Name a light mech that deserves to be nerfed that isn't named the Firestarter or the Arctic Cheetah.

There are 11 light mechs in the game, with a 12th coming soon. So 2/11 may deserve a nerf.

I'm just saying be careful with your blanket statements.

Blanket statement.... what the....?!

[Chados]

I think that the main thing lights need are score modifiers to encourage scouting, spotting, and doing things other than simply doing damage. Right now the place to be is a heavy mech able to deal some damage, because that is where your match scores cone from.

T5

[Vlad Ward]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

So you're saying that streaks should only be allowed in lower tiers?
Also, IS streaks are pretty useless, so that would only be a "solution" for Clanners.

Streak Kintaros used to be a thing. They can be again. I believe in you. You can do it.

And no. It's not about locking them out of higher tiers. You can use them in T1, but they're less efficient than simply plastering a Light with laser vomit.

It's probably the one meta-dynamic that's working as intended right now. Got good aim? Lase things, be happy. Got aim problems? Take streaks. Put a dedicated Light Hunter on a team. Streaktaros, Streak Hawks, and Streak Cats are just as effective as they were two years ago. Though Streak Crows are pretty cool too.

[Gas Guzzler]

Most need to be buffed, a couple are in a good place.

T1

[Milocinia]

Not sure if "buffed" is the right word. "Normalised" is probably better. Obviously you've got God Tier mechs like the ACH and FS9. I certainly wouldn't want other light mechs to be as outrageously effective as these.

Positive quirks on the FS9 need to be toned down and the ACH needs to carry some minor negative quirks.

"Infotech" might see lights being given a better role, at least that's what the intention for it is. However I don't see it working.

Very middle of T2.

[L3mming2]

Chados, on 24 September 2015 - 09:09 AM, said:

I think that the main thing lights need are score modifiers to encourage scouting, spotting, and doing things other than simply doing damage. Right now the place to be is a heavy mech able to deal some damage, because that is where your match scores cone from.

T5

so u are a 3d option guy? (they are in a good place right now balance wise?)

[Sethliopod]

When looking to have a fun and exciting game, where I help Blue Team win: they're fine.

When looking to earn space bucks, score points, win loot in events, contribute lots of damage, they are a real handicap.

teir 3.

[Tyler Valentine]

They need a buff overall but not to do more damage. They need a "buff" in the form of role warfare that actually makes them essential.

T3, oh so close to T2... Hopefully I never get there

[Blue Pheonix]

As others have said, vs. a poor aiming group, lights can be king. Vs. a good/average aiming group, lights can be "one shotted" wimpy". Overall, people are becoming better skilled/better aim with time.

From my experience, lights are underpowered both in armor, firepower and low score modifiers/bonuses for doing "light" responsibilities (scouting, targeting, holding targets, harassing, drawing enemy fire, causing large groups of enemy to chase you taking them out of the fight - non damage roles that add to a teams success exponentially).

I have also noticed that while there will almost always be a degree of new/unskilled players, overall, with time, players have become more skilled with their tactics (less amount of "lone wolfing it" and more staying with the group) and better aim and "one shotting" (sometimes with high powered weapons like guaze rifles, PPC and multiple stacked large lasers etc.) is becoming more common. A light would be foolish to go into a group of opponents as this would most certainly bring an early death. All of this is making the "lights" more vulnerable and less likely to contribute overall as the game ages and more people practice and more time goes on.

Lights cant really brawl, they cant really trade shots, they don't really have enough firepower to do significant damage long range (on most occasions), they cant really go one on one, they usually can't "carry" a team at the end, their weapons are usually shorter range so they have to usually get closer which is usually more dangerous, they usually die faster. All of these factors people know about, and you have to look no further then the "wait times" to see which classes/types people prefer. Lights are head-bangingly challenging with little reward (comparatively). Especially against a group of skilled/good aim opponents.

Which class significantly and typically has the least/shortest wait times? Overall, people are not stupid. While some people like me will continue to play the "lights" regardless (I like the challenge), this "wait time" should tell you all you need to know overall about the hardest class to play and the class with the least amount of reward.

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 24 September 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

Blanket statement.... what the....?!

Broad strokes. Blanket statement. Call it what you will.

This is hardly the first time today alone you've done it.

Edit: I apologize. This was me being grumpy. Now that I've eaten lunch I see that this was mostly bad mood.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 24 September 2015 - 11:07 AM.

[L3mming2]

added preliminary results to the op

[CDLord HHGD]

L3mming2, on 24 September 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

added preliminary results to the op

I see t3, but I don't see where I fell? I said there was no blanket solution. Some where fine, some needed buffing, some needed nerfing. How does that factor in?

[L3mming2]

cdlord, on 24 September 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

I see t3, but I don't see where I fell? I said there was no blanket solution. Some where fine, some needed buffing, some needed nerfing. How does that factor in?

i think u fell in category 3 (good) as you dont want to buff the light (in general) nor want to nerf them (in general) so i concluded the average power level of a light is in your opinion good (i now it aint that easy but you got to pick one...)

[Clit Beastwood]

they're fine

t1 full

streaks should come out 2 at a time instead of batches, then it'd feel really balanced.

Edited by Fierostetz, 24 September 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[PurpleNinja]

Nerfed, so people would play more lights.

T8

[Nothing Whatsoever]

My answer is depends.

So here are two general trails of thought:

If weapons with their modules and quirks (plus Fast Fire) stay as-is in-game, then all mechs need a boost in armor and structure and a reduction in agility and I mean all, plus Heat Dissipation needs a raise and Heat Capacity needs a demotion.

If weapons with their modules and quirks (plus Fast Fire) get adjusted to be in-line with current Armor and Structure plus quirks, then there are minor tweaks needed to account for geometry, plus a removal of 2x Heat Containment.

---

When comparing experience in-game to looking at the actual numbers of Weapons to Armor and Structure, the high levels of agility for all mechs, the high Heat Capacity and low dissipation, those current values are the aspects that hurt lights the most and helps Heavies the most.

And so how those values relate to each other need adjustments and depends on what the devs are willing to touch.

If the PTS is any indication, then there might be minor tweaks to weapons, with buffs to Armor and Structure, finally some variety with sensors and unknowns with the Heat System.

I'm curious to see what's coming up.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 24 September 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

L3mming2, on 24 September 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

i think u fell in category 3 (good) as you dont want to buff the light (in general) nor want to nerf them (in general) so i concluded the average power level of a light is in your opinion good (i now it aint that easy but you got to pick one...)

OK, FOR SCIENCE!

[L3mming2]

Praetor Knight, on 24 September 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

My answer is depends.

So here are two general trails of thought:

If weapons with their modules and quirks (plus Fast Fire) stay as-is in-game, then all mechs need a boost in armor and structure and a reduction in agility and I mean all, plus Heat Dissipation needs a raise and Heat Capacity needs a demotion.

If weapons with their modules and quirks (plus Fast Fire) get adjusted to be in-line with current Armor and Structure plus quirks, then there are minor tweaks needed to account for geometry, plus a removal of 2x Heat Containment.

---

When comparing experience in-game to looking at the actual numbers of Weapons to Armor and Structure, the high levels of agility for all mechs, the high Heat Capacity and low dissipation, those current values are the aspects that hurt lights the most and helps Heavies the most.

And so how those values relate to each other need adjustments and depends on what the devs are willing to touch.

If the PTS is any indication, then there might be minor tweaks to weapons, with buffs to Armor and Structure, finally some variety with sensors and unknowns with the Heat System.

I'm curious to see what's coming up.

interesting anwser but not realy usefull as it douse not fit in to the op format of buff nerf or stay the same nore douse it say your tier...

PurpleNinja, on 24 September 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

Nerfed, so people would play more lights.

T8

... disqualified

Fierostetz, on 24 September 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

they're fine

t1 full

streaks should come out 2 at a time instead of batches, then it'd feel really balanced.

i'll ad your vote (but imo you are insane streaks suck )

[Clit Beastwood]

- I may or may not have come around a corner recently in a locust to find 2 streak crows that already had me targeted via a UAV lol. That may or may not have caused some saltiness.