98 replies to this topic

[Ivan Tsarevich]

T3 as well. Most matches have been decent, but on occasion I do get some derps (or, just plan jerks). Last night, I dropped on Caustic. Both teams began the race around the middle. About 2:00 into the match, a teammate told us to stop, or he would DC. Then, 3 seconds later he did just that, and left us down an Atlas. 10 seconds after DC, the enemy was on him. Our team had even begun to just go right through the middle, I'm assuming t9 appease him. Got him as a teammate the next match, and he did quite subpar.

[AlphaToaster]

I am terrible at farming my team in the solo queue.

What usually leads to my death is someone on my team is taking massive fire, I help them out, draw that fire, fire on the guys shooting him, then I die when the next on my team leaves me out to dry.

Either that, or pushing up aggressively thinking because I have friendly arrows around me that I have teammates around me. Once the shooting starts and I realize I'm being focused, I can twist and what not expecting any moment my teammates with me to drop the mech firing at me, but oh look, 3 blue arrows on my minimap moving in the other direction, and.... I'm dead.

[KharnZor]

Fuggles, on 24 September 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Mr Blastman is right, mid tier players are gun shy because they are used to getting pummeled if they are in the front or out in the open, so they play ultra conservative, wont push, and try to keep teammates between them and the enemy.

its kind of like a slinky effect, a couple people move over to the right and next thing you know the whole team moves because they are scared to be alone.

lower tier play isn't like that, you can stand in the open, no one focus fires, no one groups up, its a bunch of randoms randomly fighting.

higher tier play is deathblob, push at the same time, focus fire etc.

higher tier players basically come into mid tier games and **** people with aggressive play and people are scared of that.

Quoted for truth.
God damn.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Fuggles, on 24 September 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Mr Blastman is right, mid tier players are gun shy because they are used to getting pummeled if they are in the front or out in the open, so they play ultra conservative, wont push, and try to keep teammates between them and the enemy.

its kind of like a slinky effect, a couple people move over to the right and next thing you know the whole team moves because they are scared to be alone.

lower tier play isn't like that, you can stand in the open, no one focus fires, no one groups up, its a bunch of randoms randomly fighting.

higher tier play is deathblob, push at the same time, focus fire etc.

higher tier players basically come into mid tier games and **** people with aggressive play and people are scared of that.

Its also mainly cuz of this game's unlimited wall of fire every mech is capable of putting out. Your side deathballs for protection from the enemy deathball, they do the same for the same reason.

The side that loses is the one that deathballed less effectively.

Case and point has been basically every game ive played since this PSR happened.

In the games I won, my team deathballed, the other team split up into groups of 2-3. The games I lost, our team split up and the enemy team deathballed.

MWO is a boring game like that.

[Revis Volek]

Mister Blastman, on 24 September 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

Yeah I'm not trying to perpetuate forum tier warfare at all. The tiers aren't a bad thing at all. They segregate you into a population of players that should hopefully give you better quality games. But I do look at tier warriors with cynicism as much as folks who are bad but think they are good.

I agree tiers are not a bad thing, contrary to the fears and worries of many others here, it actually a good thing. It allows me to have some concrete evidence after each performance to evaluate myself. It really nothing more then that to me...to Pee Gee eye its a tool for MM purposes. But it wasn't like our numbers mean anything other then who you are suppose to be playing with. I guess some of our egos just get in the way sometimes when we are trying to have a good time....

[Yellonet]

Have had really bad games all day, stomps, teams that won't move, nobody communicating.

Unchecked EU server.

Three games in a row now with people that communicate and work together, it's fun even if we lose!

[Alistair Winter]

MeiSooHaityu, on 24 September 2015 - 09:48 AM, said:

I bet Alister is starting to wish he hadn't made that joke about now lol.

Haha, I'm increasingly happy I made the joke! It had to be made. Someone needs to poke fun at the things other people are afraid to discuss openly.

Je suis Charlie!

Disclaimer: The author of this post is not actually comparing his low wit and cheap laughs on the Mechwarrior Online forums with the heroic actions and tragic sacrifice of the French satire magazine "Charlie Hebdo", nor does the opinion expressed herein necessarily reflect any antipathy towards fundamentalist muslims.

[Fuggles]

Dinochrome, on 24 September 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Hailz Mechwarriors:

Well this is interesting, it has been stated all T3 are cowards and if you are a coward you are T3. That is the most bogus connection I have ever heard, LOL. What convoluted logic produced this result? This statement is simply a pathetic attempt to open the door to the idea that one tier is better than another. Of course you understand this is only my opinion. LOL

that's not what I have been saying at all.

heres the thing, in tier 3 your going to see a large variety of skill variation, you could see tier 1 or tier 5, tier 2 or tier 4.

the players I have observed here are just like the OP described. they know how to play they game, they don't stare down enemy fire, they roll damage, they generally have functional mechs, they can aim. they are all around decent players.

the problem is though, they don't know if that direwolf on the other side of the map is a triangle is a trial direwolf that doesn't even know they are there, a 6 lb2x direwolf that cant aim that they can sit there and face tank, or a meta direwolf that will rip off their side torso or strip all their CT armor in one shot.

because of this, they play super cautious. they don't stand out in the open like noobs cause they aren't noobs they know better but at the same time they wont push because they know their teammates wont assist them (or if they do they just pile up directly behind using them as a shield) because the last ten times they pushed out, they got focus fired and obliterated. they are basically always looking for someone to go out first or to lead them.

[Lightfoot]

I have more trouble with players who get lured into chasing a Light mech. Like half the team chases a Light while the main enemy group is closing from the other direction.

[xXBagheeraXx]

AlphaToaster, on 24 September 2015 - 01:34 PM, said:

I am terrible at farming my team in the solo queue.

What usually leads to my death is someone on my team is taking massive fire, I help them out, draw that fire, fire on the guys shooting him, then I die when the next on my team leaves me out to dry.

Either that, or pushing up aggressively thinking because I have friendly arrows around me that I have teammates around me. Once the shooting starts and I realize I'm being focused, I can twist and what not expecting any moment my teammates with me to drop the mech firing at me, but oh look, 3 blue arrows on my minimap moving in the other direction, and.... I'm dead.

NEVER bail anyone out. Ive learned that in Tanks. ive learned that in warthunder, The same applies here. They will always leave you out to dry.

[Y E O N N E]

xXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'm not here to wave a Tier Epeen. That is the tier I'm at, and that is the gameplay I'm getting. If you are in a different tier I'm wondering if your gameplay is different or is it just my luck to get a bunch canary yellow PANSIES for teammates every game.

I feel the need to address this, in general terms:

You do not play within your tier. T4s play with everybody up to and including T2. T1 play with everybody down to and including T4. T3s are not stuck, strictly, with other T3s, which is where your line of thinking seems to be headed.

As such, your games are going to vary because the game is going to construct teams based on average PSR and available weight classes. This is just how random solo games work. You see the same stupid **** at T1 and T2.

[LordNothing]

ever since psr i have had a lot of endless strings of bad games in public queue. leveling mechs has become utter hell. at the same time i have been inexplicably doing very well in cw.

[EekaBlitzer]

Hi. I'm in Tier 3, about 75% in, so my tier will not have recently changed. My experience since PSR was introduced, has sadly been of an increase in the incident of badly matched games in the solo queue

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Fuggles, on 24 September 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

because of this, they play super cautious. they don't stand out in the open like noobs cause they aren't noobs they know better but at the same time they wont push because they know their teammates wont assist them (or if they do they just pile up directly behind using them as a shield) because the last ten times they pushed out, they got focus fired and obliterated. they are basically always looking for someone to go out first or to lead them.

I agree with this 100%

I haven't played in a long time and I (unfortunately) started back up during this latest event. Aside from the clusterf*** the event was, I've noticed that more players are willing to commit to a flank push if said push is communicated beforehand and that the one who calls for the push actually spearheads the push. Usually you'll end up dying at the point, but it's satisfying to see your teammates commit and secure the win.

I've also been in a few matches where people are willing to sacrifice themselves with me in order to hold up the enemy advance to buy time for the rest of the team (usually doing the same fail nascar routes) to catch the enemy split-focused resulting in a win.

All I do is solo pug and those instances were few and far between under the Elo system.

[l33tworks]

Let me give you my 2c on the topic.

Its not just a Tier 3 problem. Its a whole game problem. The only reason you *may* not see it as much in Tier 5 is because they are too stupid to know how to retreat, and not in Tier 1 because they smart enough to know the value of staying with the people who cannot/will not retreat is higher than retreting to a certain loss just a few minutes later.

The reason for most of this behavior is that selfish playstayles are rewarded in MWO and every other playstyles are severely punished. Any time when you are not close to cover and not shooting a mech that isn't shooting back at you you are doing it wrong. A Mechwarrior game should not be like this, and I think this is why in all the MWO promotional videos and NGNG new mech release gameplay videos they always make it a point to get in a brawl, because the real successful playstyle of MWO is just too boring to see.
This is why pop tarts were so successful, and after their nerf they have just been replaced by sidestep tarts, where you tart on the horizontal axis instead of the vertical.

So its no suprise most players that care about "doing good" instead of having fun (maybe thats the same thing for most people) just use their mechs in a way where you position yourself in a position the enemy is not looking at, come out of cover and unload your damage, and get back into cover as fast as possible. Then evaluate whether you have been spotted and if you haven't repeat until you have then re-position to a new unknown to the enemy location and start the process all over again.

You see all the top players doing this. Sean Lang Aka Phil from NGNG is the poster child of this. Why? Because it works.

The menially is basically I want to do a much damage to the enemy while taking as little to myself. And unfortunately the game becomes a game of Armour attrition. Any form of BRAWLING is just a suicide move.

No I don't blame anyone for playing this way because MWO has been constructed to reward this playstyle. Lets examine some points why.


1. Laser vomit. The easiest most perfect weapons to use alongside the most successful playstyle tactic of selfishness. Unlimited ammo. Perfect accuracy. Instant travel speed. Easy to use at a distance and at close. High alpha unload of damage, with just the Exact correct of duration for your mech to be able to peek out of cover and reverse back. The only downside is you cant have sustained firepower (actually you can if you chainfire), and you need to wait to cool down. But you would need to do that anyway to match the peekaboo playstyle, so is this really a downside or a perfect synergy of balance?

2. For a Mech game, its is just too damn easy to move in and out of cover for most mechs and reposition if need be. This is why assault mechs need to be rewarded more for pushing, i.e once you commit you gotta go and they need more Armour bonuses for this. Not just Atlases but ALL Assault mechs even the Dire wolf.
Currently its way to easy to Core out an Assault mech. They only have 3 times the armour of a light mech but are 5 times as big a target, 3 times slower in top speed, maybe 20 times less maneuverable, so overall they are 100x as easy to hit, but only have 3 times the survivabililty. The also only have about 30% more Armour than all the top meta Heavy mechs but are still mostly limited to usable firepower by the same Ghost heat and Mechlab mechanics. Madness.

3. The maps are just Asking for this selfish playstyle, constant rolling hills, most areas of the map accessible to mehcs, hardly any close quarters simple Urban environemnts where you walk amongst buildings, NO UP, NO DOWN, no hills, no holes, no Caves, if you run into a mech, unless its a locust it has to fight you or rish dying trying to run away from the confrontation.


So in summary the solutions could be interpreted as

-Less maps made to encourage peekaboo gameplay. More city grid type Urban environments i.e New York city. Or maybe more cave or valley outdoor maps.

- Nerf laser vommit, buff non Laser weapons.

Ammo dependent, especially Damage over time weapons need to be buffed. A start would be doubling the range of machine guns. It would allow people to lay down supressive fire at up to 350 metres. A machine gun with 100 metres range is laughable anyway. Maybe keep current range for accuracy, but keep damage potential up to 350m with a bit more spread. AC2s need to be cooler as well with more ammo per ton.

-Assualt mechs need more staying power.
Pretty self explantory. Up the armour of all assault mechs and provide more bonuses forteam mates mechs supporting assaults and brawling.

[Zordicron]

LOL, OP, I was in a match with you(you were red team scum though) and you made some comment about "have fun shooting these cowards" or some such. Don;t worry, I killed 3 of them.

Server choice and TIME play the biggest part in match quality. Prime time NA is not going to net you a very good match on EU, NO ONE IS ONLINE. Release valves activate!

Tier stuff: Paul has said #matches played is a major, major consideration to tiers. What was it, like 2500 minimum without astounding luck and solid constant performance to get tier 1?

I mean, all these people come here and go on about how PSR ruined their matches. I am tier 2, my K/D and W/L have gone UP since the patch. I mean, I dunno, seems to me like consitantly getting onto teams that don;t run around #yolo with their finger up their nose makes a difference for me, but then I always was more of a "kill assist" guy then a "solo kill" guy. Add dmg where it counts, if your team ain;t a bunch of derps, someone will clean up. No sense sticking an alpha into a crippled mech and overheating when your pals right behind you can do it without risk. That type of thing.


I agree with Blastman's satire, tier 2 is where it's at. People aren;t idiots, and there is still a lot of audible laughter on voip, even when people are losing. Sure you get some coward teams, I had one on Tourmaline. We had this really solid fireing line overlooking theta, and the enmy was intent on taking theta. Suddenly, 2/3 the team is running around into the killboxdeathbowl trench for no apparent reason.

"ONOZ enemy mechs!!"- backpedalling intensifies!

Not much you can do. And the tiers? The more matches you play, the less it moves, so don't sweat a bad match here and there.

[Sarlic]

Yellonet, on 24 September 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

Have had really bad games all day, stomps, teams that won't move, nobody communicating.

Unchecked EU server.

Three games in a row now with people that communicate and work together, it's fun even if we lose!

I was with you in those matches believe.

It may looked like i was winning the whole time but those matches were actually the very few wins of the day. I had a terrible losing streaks that day and a Basic Orion was not helping either.

You played well though. Atleast in my opinion. If that matters.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 September 2015 - 09:33 PM.

[riverslq]

tier 3
all i see from one side or the other usually, is one getting picked off at a time after he poked his head out.

lemmings i tell ya.

[Poisonfog]

l33tworks, on 24 September 2015 - 09:23 PM, said:

Let me give you my 2c on the topic.

Its not just a Tier 3 problem. Its a whole game problem. The only reason you *may* not see it as much in Tier 5 is because they are too stupid to know how to retreat, and not in Tier 1 because they smart enough to know the value of staying with the people who cannot/will not retreat is higher than retreting to a certain loss just a few minutes later.

The reason for most of this behavior is that selfish playstayles are rewarded in MWO and every other playstyles are severely punished. Any time when you are not close to cover and not shooting a mech that isn't shooting back at you you are doing it wrong. A Mechwarrior game should not be like this, and I think this is why in all the MWO promotional videos and NGNG new mech release gameplay videos they always make it a point to get in a brawl, because the real successful playstyle of MWO is just too boring to see.
This is why pop tarts were so successful, and after their nerf they have just been replaced by sidestep tarts, where you tart on the horizontal axis instead of the vertical.

So its no suprise most players that care about "doing good" instead of having fun (maybe thats the same thing for most people) just use their mechs in a way where you position yourself in a position the enemy is not looking at, come out of cover and unload your damage, and get back into cover as fast as possible. Then evaluate whether you have been spotted and if you haven't repeat until you have then re-position to a new unknown to the enemy location and start the process all over again.

You see all the top players doing this. Sean Lang Aka Phil from NGNG is the poster child of this. Why? Because it works.

The menially is basically I want to do a much damage to the enemy while taking as little to myself. And unfortunately the game becomes a game of Armour attrition. Any form of BRAWLING is just a suicide move.

No I don't blame anyone for playing this way because MWO has been constructed to reward this playstyle. Lets examine some points why.


1. Laser vomit. The easiest most perfect weapons to use alongside the most successful playstyle tactic of selfishness. Unlimited ammo. Perfect accuracy. Instant travel speed. Easy to use at a distance and at close. High alpha unload of damage, with just the Exact correct of duration for your mech to be able to peek out of cover and reverse back. The only downside is you cant have sustained firepower (actually you can if you chainfire), and you need to wait to cool down. But you would need to do that anyway to match the peekaboo playstyle, so is this really a downside or a perfect synergy of balance?

2. For a Mech game, its is just too damn easy to move in and out of cover for most mechs and reposition if need be. This is why assault mechs need to be rewarded more for pushing, i.e once you commit you gotta go and they need more Armour bonuses for this. Not just Atlases but ALL Assault mechs even the Dire wolf.
Currently its way to easy to Core out an Assault mech. They only have 3 times the armour of a light mech but are 5 times as big a target, 3 times slower in top speed, maybe 20 times less maneuverable, so overall they are 100x as easy to hit, but only have 3 times the survivabililty. The also only have about 30% more Armour than all the top meta Heavy mechs but are still mostly limited to usable firepower by the same Ghost heat and Mechlab mechanics. Madness.

3. The maps are just Asking for this selfish playstyle, constant rolling hills, most areas of the map accessible to mehcs, hardly any close quarters simple Urban environemnts where you walk amongst buildings, NO UP, NO DOWN, no hills, no holes, no Caves, if you run into a mech, unless its a locust it has to fight you or rish dying trying to run away from the confrontation.


So in summary the solutions could be interpreted as

-Less maps made to encourage peekaboo gameplay. More city grid type Urban environments i.e New York city. Or maybe more cave or valley outdoor maps.

- Nerf laser vommit, buff non Laser weapons.

Ammo dependent, especially Damage over time weapons need to be buffed. A start would be doubling the range of machine guns. It would allow people to lay down supressive fire at up to 350 metres. A machine gun with 100 metres range is laughable anyway. Maybe keep current range for accuracy, but keep damage potential up to 350m with a bit more spread. AC2s need to be cooler as well with more ammo per ton.

-Assualt mechs need more staying power.
Pretty self explantory. Up the armour of all assault mechs and provide more bonuses forteam mates mechs supporting assaults and brawling.

You win. I grant you the internet.

[Pjwned]

This isn't new behavior at all by the way.