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Cowardice....the New Tier 3 Meta?


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#81 Yellonet

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:01 PM

View PostSarlic, on 24 September 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

I was with you in those matches believe.

It may looked like i was winning the whole time but those matches were actually the very few wins of the day. I had a terrible losing streaks that day and a Basic Orion was not helping either.

You played well though. Atleast in my opinion. If that matters.
I played with/against you only a couple of times I think? Most of my other matches were just as bad, until I went for NA server only, communication, teamplay, not winning more perhaps, but having a lot more fun.

But no, I don't think I played well in "our" matches :(

#82 Davegt27

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:03 PM

hey guys its just a game

geezzz

#83 Sputty

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:05 PM

This game has always been full of people afraid to fight. It's not new. People play MWO extremely poorly, hiding their mechs because they are afraid to take damage even when nearby team mates are heavily damaged and showing it. It's just how the average player works. They don't have a feel for how much damage they can put out, expect to take or a feel for positioning mechs so they hide until they get forced out. It's inexperience or just being bad.

#84 cSand

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:20 PM

I actually just watched a friendly ~95% DWF turn tail and run while I fought with a Stormcrow (in my damn QKD no less)

DWF big-balls guy was standing there, took one shot at the SCR, the SCR grazed him with a stray shot, then he turned around and ran behind a rock.

Yea sorry buddy wouldn't want you're effing paint job scratched there

Luckily some guy in a Jenner I think it was stepped up to the plate and helped out

Other times... you can clearly see most of the enemy team on the radar and where's the friendly team?

Oh yea there they are, about 5 squares away cowering behind something


Mech-cowards online :lol: B)

#85 Xetelian

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Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:48 PM

In this thread, caution is seen as cowardice and a rambo player is mad.

#86 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 01:28 AM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Stand and fight...the hell are you in a mech for if you arent going to face the enemy?
Fight or Flight response is biological and without training, beyond our personal control.

#87 Chados

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 02:38 AM

I think it's situational. I got accused of cowardice over gamechat for refusing to stand and die in the funnel of death in Lasertown below the saddle on Crimson Strait, because instead of reenacting the Charge of the Light Brigade into the Russian guns at Sevastopol, I decided to flank out and run through the tunnel to take them from behind, which worked and got me two kills.

The accuser was behind me at the time and attempting to shove me into the funnel to use me as his meat shield, and I hit the jets and levitated out of the firing line...and the Golden BB intended for me gunned him down instead. Rough justice served. Give people a little elbow room out there!

#88 l33tworks

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:21 AM

View PostcSand, on 24 September 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

I actually just watched a friendly ~95% DWF turn tail and run while I fought with a Stormcrow (in my damn QKD no less)

DWF big-balls guy was standing there, took one shot at the SCR, the SCR grazed him with a stray shot, then he turned around and ran behind a rock.

Yea sorry buddy wouldn't want you're effing paint job scratched there

Luckily some guy in a Jenner I think it was stepped up to the plate and helped out

Other times... you can clearly see most of the enemy team on the radar and where's the friendly team?

Oh yea there they are, about 5 squares away cowering behind something


Mech-cowards online :lol: B)


Its true but sadly a necessity for that poor scared assault pilot. The jenner can come help and leave as he pleases with relative impunity whereas for the dire its a big commitment. If the dire pilot doesn't play that way he will be out of the fight quicker than the jenner can "turn 360 and walk away". I'm probably the most brawling crazy, charge in guns blazing player you can get, but even I duck and cover when I get looked at and definitely when I am being shot at in an Assault. Ironically much more so in Assault mechs than any other class in the game actually. Speed is life in this game and while you can engage and disengage in a faster mech you cannot do that in a dire.

How often do you see Assault mechs last more than a few seconds out in the open? You have to be close to cover and avoid being targeted and shot at. They are forced to play the same pikaboo game. It may be just a scarecrow now, but a few seconds later it is a bunch of LRMs and the attention of every enemy mech within range trying to size the opportunity to sink the pinata Titatic that was crazy enough to get out of cover, and by and then i'ts too late to back out.

Lets take the current Atlas story as an Example. Currently its a water balloon waiting to be popped. In the PTS it got 50+ more structure. WOW everyone thought! But in reality, its not just that being able to take 50 more points of damage is not enough to overcome the current style of meta for an Atlas, but it went to the wrong place.

An Atlas doesn't need 50 more structure points so they can walk around without weapons for a bit longer, they need DOUBLE the Armour AND 50+ structure. Yes so if it has 110 points now, it needs 220. This way at least they have a shot at dishing out some damage during a push and soaking up a bit more attention zombing around before they go down with the structure buff . I know it sounds extreme because people will say I already do well in my Atalas etc but theres always that guy that does well in his Awesomes ever since they have been out, so following that logic they never needed any buffs, right?

Honestly I would love to see An Atlas just leading the charge over hills in almost every match I play. It would totally shake up the playstyle and just be a riot as everyone follows after it. Other Assault mechs should get tougher too to a lesser extent.


Once the new sensor quirks come in Assault mechs are going to have **** sensors, which means that this whole cowardess problem is going to be exaggerated even further. People think sensors are not going to have an influce, but it will have a huge influence just in the wrong direction.

Enemy mechs pikabooing wont even show up on your hud whatsoever your going to have to rely on visuals only when piloting over half the mechs in the game. This is going to make the whole cowardess gamestyle even more so pronounced, because heck people will think I can avoid detection entirely if I only expose myself for 3 seconds at a time so even more people are gonna be popping out of cover and popping right back in. More so than now if thats even possible.


Can you imagine being out in the open after the new rebabalnce comes out in any kind of brawling oriented, or non laser vomit setup and mentality? I tell you if you think its hard now then i'ts going to be even harder as you will be shot from random locations without anything ever coming up on your radar using at least half of the mechs in the game, and if you have an ammo based build you will be wasting ammo trying to land a hit from where you think the shots are coming from, whereas with lasers you will be able to wave the magic wand and do a "are you there check" .The only mechs with good sensors will be the fast light ones that dont need it in the first place because they would not be brawling type mechs out in the open.

The game is being pushed entirely in the wrong direction af far as Cowardess gameplay, laser vomit mechs, and, pikaboo playstyle is concerned.

Edited by l33tworks, 25 September 2015 - 04:28 AM.


#89 Lugh

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 04:38 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 25 September 2015 - 01:28 AM, said:

Fight or Flight response is biological and without training, beyond our personal control.

Totally within your control, IF you call yourself a Warrior. If you can't control it. You aren't.

-Lugh Tzu.

Edited by Lugh, 25 September 2015 - 04:38 AM.


#90 xXBagheeraXx

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:07 AM

View PostChados, on 25 September 2015 - 02:38 AM, said:

I think it's situational. I got accused of cowardice over gamechat for refusing to stand and die in the funnel of death in Lasertown below the saddle on Crimson Strait, because instead of reenacting the Charge of the Light Brigade into the Russian guns at Sevastopol, I decided to flank out and run through the tunnel to take them from behind, which worked and got me two kills.

The accuser was behind me at the time and attempting to shove me into the funnel to use me as his meat shield, and I hit the jets and levitated out of the firing line...and the Golden BB intended for me gunned him down instead. Rough justice served. Give people a little elbow room out there!


There is a difference between playing cautiously and just being a Pansy. Running away from an incomping push = cowardice that is going to get you killed. Running headlong into a firing line = stupidity. The former is pissing me off, not the latter.

#91 LookUpGaming

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:27 AM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 09:52 AM, said:


I was told you can only have games +/- 1 tier in a given match...usually I see guys on teh enmy team saying they are around tier 2 or tier 3. and It shows in thier play style....90% of assaults I shoot at roll damage now instead of having staring contests with my 68 alpha Ebon repteatedly. They dont constantly peek the same corner they keep catching dual gauss rounds to the face at ETC ETC....you know...stuff players do that implies they understand basic game concepts...your average joe players.



That is incorrect. The only constant we have is that Tier 1 players will not face Tier 4 or 5 players. So if the matchmaker can't find 24 Tier 1 and 2 players to throw into a game, it will add Tier 3 players to that list, but not Tier 4 or 5.

So if you are Tier 3, then you are rated as one of the "worst" in the group most likely. (which may or may not be the case, there is a function of number of games played as well If you have not played all that many matches since they started tracking PSR then you may just have not had enough time to climb to Tier 2 yet)

I think its really just a function of people trying to save themself. I have seen games where someone got on the mic and said something like "turn and fight we are leaving our assaults to be overrun" and then everyone did it.

Basically that is just the breaks of living the PuG life....

#92 xXBagheeraXx

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 05:49 AM

I'm calling it. I cannot play with the teams I get currently and I dont like people enough to try group dropping on coms. I play this crap to blow up mechs and every game ends the same with me holding important positions as my team moves away from the enemy advances in my assaults or just everyone f#$%@ running all match.

Hopefully the gameplay changes in a few months. Holding the "w" button for 15 minutes is not my idea of fun. Till later pilots.

#93 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 06:06 AM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 25 September 2015 - 05:49 AM, said:

I'm calling it. I cannot play with the teams I get currently and I dont like people enough to try group dropping on coms. I play this crap to blow up mechs and every game ends the same with me holding important positions as my team moves away from the enemy advances in my assaults or just everyone f#$%@ running all match.

Hopefully the gameplay changes in a few months. Holding the "w" button for 15 minutes is not my idea of fun. Till later pilots.


:rolleyes:

#94 MechWarrior5152251

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:01 AM

Yeah its bad, I am almost out of tier 3 and am hoping tier 2 will be better.

Requires an entirely new kind of awareness. You have to pay attention to when your entire team runs away so you can at least keep up with them so that you do not get focus fired.

#95 Mister Blastman

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:02 AM

View PostMechWarrior5152251, on 25 September 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

Yeah its bad, I am almost out of tier 3 and am hoping tier 2 will be better.


It usually is.

#96 MechWarrior5152251

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:02 AM

Playing vulture style pays off in this new meta. At least it weights speed up there with weapons load out in balance. Slow assaults get shafted in this meta. I no longer use Dire Whales. Many many mechs now depend on LRMs and stay as far back as possible.

Edited by MechWarrior5152251, 25 September 2015 - 07:05 AM.


#97 cSand

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Posted 25 September 2015 - 07:56 AM

View Postl33tworks, on 25 September 2015 - 04:21 AM, said:

I'm probably the most brawling crazy, charge in guns blazing player you can get, but even I duck and cover when I get looked at and definitely when I am being shot at in an Assault.


That's true but if you return fire, all the other cowards will run away. A DWF shooting will cause people to scatter


but no

Buddy turns tail and flees the action :rolleyes:

I agree with you

but the players in this game are in a sad sad state. sans testicles

Edited by cSand, 25 September 2015 - 07:59 AM.


#98 David McKier

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 08:27 PM

View PostFuggles, on 24 September 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:


Mr Blastman is right, mid tier players are gun shy because they are used to getting pummeled if they are in the front or out in the open, so they play ultra conservative, wont push, and try to keep teammates between them and the enemy.

its kind of like a slinky effect, a couple people move over to the right and next thing you know the whole team moves because they are scared to be alone.

lower tier play isn't like that, you can stand in the open, no one focus fires, no one groups up, its a bunch of randoms randomly fighting.

higher tier play is deathblob, push at the same time, focus fire etc.

higher tier players basically come into mid tier games and **** people with aggressive play and people are scared of that.

Yes, well said! It is exactly this state of affair in the mid tier - we know enough to be afraid but not quite enough to do something about it so conservative play tends to come out more often than not. That said I've had some seriously good games recently in pug matches especially what someone... anyone... calls the dances.

#99 spectralthundr

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Posted 29 September 2015 - 08:29 PM

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 24 September 2015 - 09:36 AM, said:

Why is it team after team sees an enemy push and runs AWAY from it? What are your thoughts? What do you hope to accomplish by giving your enemy your rear armor? Especially when you have a very advantageous position to defend from like a nice hill top bristling with Laser barfing mechs?

He'res what happens kids. The mechs that are too slow (usually your big gun assaults) cannot keep up with you when half the team decides "SCREW YOU GUYS, I'm GOING HOME!!!"

They get left behind and get swarmed....

you lose your primary damage soakers and damage dealers...good start...

then the guys who didn't notice you running leaving trails of coolant behind you die next. Thats usually guys like me, guys who are focusing on doing damage to the mechs moving up into position, not noticing you all are fleeing...

By the time you realize whats going on, you are down 4-5 mechs, including your bigger damage dealers, or mechs too slow to keep up. Once a deathball like that gets momentum going it can and will chase you down and wipe the floor with whats left of your team. Doubly so if there are lots of dakka mixed in with LRMS and ECM...by then its too late to to try to form a firing line, you've lost your big mechs and your slower fire support/lrm mechs and are left to face a wall of pissed off angry and more importantly FRESH assault mechs with your lightweight mediums and heavies that where fast enough to flee originally...Good luck with that.

TL;DR

Stand and fight...the hell are you in a mech for if you arent going to face the enemy?


You talk as though this is at all a new thing with PSR being introduced. It isn't new at all. And as much as I hate to say it, it's more a Euro thing, the good majority of them are deathly allergic to pushing.





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