223 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

One thing MWO is lacking is a proper heat scale with consequences. Right now, we got a heat threshold that is modified by the number of heatsinks we equip. In TT, there was a set ceiling to that threshold with penalties along the way. Below is my interpretation of the TT/CBT heat scale as it would apply to MWO. I took the CBT penalties and matched them up with their MWO equivalent (or closest or most sensical to me). Now, is a 30 point threshold correct? Are my penalties too severe? I have no idea. This is a proposal for discussion.

I thought it prudent to add the equation:
Heat Generated (via actions) - heat dispersed (via heatsinks) = Heat Score on the table below.

Edited by CDLord HHGD, 22 May 2017 - 06:08 AM.

[Red Shrike]

I like this.

I recently played MW4 again and I noticed that running hot made my HUD flicker and reduced my top speed and turning speed. (legs and torso)
I want that in MWO.

[Weeny Machine]

I proposed that already several times.

You would achieve two things:
1. The dudes who spam high laser alphas wouldn't be sure to get easily in cover or spam their next huge alphas because of targeting problems

2. Less boating and a more diverse mix of weaponry

[CDLord HHGD]

Bush Hopper, on 25 September 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

I proposed that already several times.

You would achieve two things:
1. The dudes who spam high laser alphas wouldn't be sure to get easily in cover or spam their next huge alphas because of targeting problems

2. Less boating and a more diverse mix of weaponry

I have seen several times in these forums where people have suggested this but used my heat table from my D20 RPG conversion online. Link

Figured I'd do one up specifically for MWO.

[TexAce]

I find it a bit harsh, I don't think anything should happen to the mech if you have the heat bar 50-60% full. But otherwise I'm all for severe heat consequences.

Reduce ammo per ton to compensate for everyone going ballistic as a result. SRMs and LRMs are crappy enough, leave them as they are.

[RedDragon]

We wanted this since Closed Beta. But well ... PGI.

[CDLord HHGD]

TexAce, on 25 September 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

I find it a bit harsh, I don't think anything should happen to the mech if you have the heat bar 50-60% full. But otherwise I'm all for severe heat consequences.

Reduce ammo per ton to compensate for everyone going ballistic as a result. SRMs and LRMs are crappy enough, leave them as they are.

Sure enough. Make it a 40 point threshold or condense the penalties to the upper portion of the list. I just tried to match the CBT line for line as a start.

[Karl Streiger]

TexAce, on 25 September 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

I find it a bit harsh, I don't think anything should happen to the mech if you have the heat bar 50-60% full. But otherwise I'm all for severe heat consequences.

Reduce ammo per ton to compensate for everyone going ballistic as a result. SRMs and LRMs are crappy enough, leave them as they are.

well considering that for example 10 DHS give you 20 points threshold - the first penalty at "FIVE" would happen when you have 25 heat points (as said 50%)
But if you use 20 DHS - the same penalty would appear when at 60 heat.

The good about this stuff is you don't need Ghost Heat - or at least less intense.
Firing 2 ERPPC on a 10 DHS Cicade would give you 30 heat - and will result in a reduction of speed - maybe a flickering hud

while using the tripple finger of a AWS-9M would give you only the first heat reduction of "FIVE"
its a fair system

Edited by Karl Streiger, 25 September 2015 - 05:25 AM.

[mike29tw]

I would suggest changing top speed reduction to acceleration/deceleration penalty. I think top speed reduction will nerf light mechs the most because they spend more time firing on full throttle, and I prefer not to nerf light mechs any further.

Also I would to condense it to have the penalties take effect every 5 heat starting from 10 heat, just to make the table simpler and easier to look up/remember.

[Karl Streiger]

mike29tw, on 25 September 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

I would suggest changing top speed reduction to acceleration/deceleration penalty. I think top speed reduction will nerf light mechs the most because they spend more time firing on full throttle, and I prefer not to nerf light mechs any further.

Also I would to condense it to have the penalties take effect every 5 heat starting from 10 heat, just to make the table simpler and easier to look up/remember.

Right about the first - not so true about the second.
When you have a fixed starting point you nerf those Mechs that spend tonnnage for Heatsinks
for example - when firing 4 PPCs - will give you the full 40heat - i would not bother to use a single ton for heatsinks.

(like it was before ghost heat - and in some minor parts still is -adding more heatsinks is inefficent - the Cicada as an example with 2 ERPPCs is faster and almost the same cooling capability as a 65t Mech using 12tons of heatsinks.

[CDLord HHGD]

mike29tw, on 25 September 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

I would suggest changing top speed reduction to acceleration/deceleration penalty. I think top speed reduction will nerf light mechs the most because they spend more time firing on full throttle, and I prefer not to nerf light mechs any further.

Also I would to condense it to have the penalties take effect every 5 heat starting from 10 heat, just to make the table simpler and easier to look up/remember.

I'm all for simple so good suggestions. Maybe take each item and put it into tiers of 3 (HA! Tiers...). Severe/Moderate/Light. So of the 4 categories I use (omitting the obligatory shutdown) you'd have 12 total penalties.

You could further differentiate by giving lights and mediums a higher overall threshold than heavies and assaults too. Say lights have a 40 point threshold instead of 30. Mediums 35... There's a lot of ways you can tweak this.

Heck, you could even link threshold to overall number of hardpoints....

Edited by cdlord, 25 September 2015 - 05:42 AM.

[Lanceafer]

This is something that I have been talking about lately. I really like the blurred vision idea as well.

I would knock the speed penalty down by half at least. You are running like a legged mech when at high heat with 50% but losing 25% of our speed seems like a good penalty. I would similarly reduce the turning and yaw. Otherwise you really become a sitting target after a couple shots.

I LOVE the idea of ammo cooking off at high heat however. It should be a very low chance something like .5-1% after 28 heat and only have it calculate once as you go past. That way if you spike at 50 and have to wait for your mech to cool you don't have it check again every second they way it does the damage now. Otherwise you are looking at like a 20% chance of going boom. On the flip side, don't spike your heat up to 50.

As for adding more heat sinks to negate the effects, I don't think it would work that way. I could be off on how heat is applied it MWO but it TT you would be correct because the heat sinks would remove the heat at the end of the turn and then you would calculate the final heat. In here the heat would be added and the heat sinks just remove it faster (if I understand it correctly). So that six large laser boat will still overheat when they alpha because all the heat will apply when it fires and then dissipate after.

I hope we can get enough people behind this to have is taken seriously.

EDIT:
A whole page of posts and no trolls?! Is this what a conversation is like?

Edited by Lanceafer, 25 September 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[Lootee]

Game needs this. Make it so.

[Hobo Dan]

TexAce, on 25 September 2015 - 05:20 AM, said:

I find it a bit harsh, I don't think anything should happen to the mech if you have the heat bar 50-60% full. But otherwise I'm all for severe heat consequences.

I agree with this statement.

[An Atlas]

So anything a light mech attacked would get slower as they fought it.... and it would risk shutting down.... and it's ammo would blow up.... and it couldn't aim....

Sounds like another good way to screw assault pilots if nothing else was changed

[MeiSooHaityu]

The real consequence I'd like to see applied to the heat system pertains to; if you overheat and blow yourself up, it counts as a team kill (and out of bounds or legging yourself while we are at it).

It's funny how you can kill a team mate with no repercussions as long as it is yourself .

[CDLord HHGD]

On the subject of ammo cooking off, even with a % chance, I'm not too sure even I'd like that. Maybe a 5% chance at the extreme upper limits of the threshold or maybe add that "descriptor" when you override and take internals damage. That's why I replaced it with the blurred vision. Something to hinder your play, not stop it outright.

[Spleenslitta]

I'd love to have a heatscale like this. Not only would boating be less frequent but Ghostheat would just be gone. Poof. Just like that.
Some say these stats should be adjusted but they should keep in mind that this would be like a first pass at stuff like this.
Adjustments would happen after playing for a while. Then further adjustments down the road.

[John1352]

Suddenly the only weapons on the field would be AC5s and Gauss Rifles!

[TexAce]

John1352, on 25 September 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

Suddenly the only weapons on the field would be AC5s and Gauss Rifles!

Ammo dependent and heavy, plus high chance of ammo blowup on the ACs.....I don't think so