223 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

Didnt read the topic or replies poping in quick to say this game needs changes to the heat scale or a reactor pool added. This is to have some sort of mech weigh limit to alphas. Its basically the same reason ghost heat was added but has up till now failed to limit crazy damage increases to alphas and damage over all. I guess it can be a way to limit some of the Omni mechs alphas without reducing their weapon damage or extending beam curation etc. Some Inner Sphere mechs also.

[CDLord HHGD]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Didnt read the topic or replies poping in quick to say this game needs changes to the heat scale or a reactor pool added. This is to have some sort of mech weigh limit to alphas. Its basically the same reason ghost heat was added but has up till now failed to limit crazy damage increases to alphas and damage over all. I guess it can be a way to limit some of the Omni mechs alphas without reducing their weapon damage or extending beam curation etc. Some Inner Sphere mechs also.

Thanks but you should read the OP and at least some of the conversation, it's all very good stuff.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

yeah, been looking at this for a long time too.

And I think we could factor the buffer from HS into the scale, so with MWO's current values, we could see something like this:

[Spleenslitta]

Imagine if flamers had a huge chance of cooking off ammo that is without armor protecting it. Flamers would actually be usefull then.
Usefull without boating them even.

There is one sad thing about all this cdlord. Similar threads have been made multiple times in the feature suggestions part of the forum.
Despite this i cannot remember a single such thread where the dev's took any interrest by posting their opinion on it.
I'm afraid the dev's have set their course and won't deviate from it anytime soon. Maybe even never.

I remember when ammunition explosions actually occured several times per match. Now we might see 1 possibly 2 ammo explosions per match with all 24 mech included.
Ammo has only 10% chance of exploding when it's critted to the point that it is destroyed. Gauss's are far more dangerous than ammo right now because of that low 10% chance

[Lyoto Machida]

TexAce, on 25 September 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

Ammo dependent and heavy, plus high chance of ammo blowup on the ACs.....I don't think so

How so? He removed the ammo explosion chances.

I say leave the ammo explosions in and work something in possibly for energy builds. Maybe once heat hits a certain threshold, there's a chance at "popping" heat sinks instead if your total alpha is over 50% from energy weapons.

[CDLord HHGD]

Spleenslitta, on 25 September 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Imagine if flamers had a huge chance of cooking off ammo that is without armor protecting it. Flamers would actually be usefull then.
Usefull without boating them even.

There is one sad thing about all this cdlord. Similar threads have been made multiple times in the feature suggestions part of the forum.
Despite this i cannot remember a single such thread where the dev's took any interrest by posting their opinion on it.
I'm afraid the dev's have set their course and won't deviate from it anytime soon. Maybe even never.

I remember when ammunition explosions actually occured several times per match. Now we might see 1 possibly 2 ammo explosions per match with all 24 mech included.
Ammo has only 10% chance of exploding when it's critted to the point that it is destroyed. Gauss's are far more dangerous than ammo right now because of that low 10% chance

I know, but if we give up, there's 0 chance. I'll take 1% over 0 any day.

[Alan Davion]

Spleenslitta, on 25 September 2015 - 10:34 AM, said:

Imagine if flamers had a huge chance of cooking off ammo that is without armor protecting it. Flamers would actually be usefull then.
Usefull without boating them even.

There is one sad thing about all this cdlord. Similar threads have been made multiple times in the feature suggestions part of the forum.
Despite this i cannot remember a single such thread where the dev's took any interrest by posting their opinion on it.
I'm afraid the dev's have set their course and won't deviate from it anytime soon. Maybe even never.

I remember when ammunition explosions actually occured several times per match. Now we might see 1 possibly 2 ammo explosions per match with all 24 mech included.
Ammo has only 10% chance of exploding when it's critted to the point that it is destroyed. Gauss's are far more dangerous than ammo right now because of that low 10% chance

Somebody get Bishop on the horn to Russ. Stat.

[Spleenslitta]

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

I know, but if we give up, there's 0 chance. I'll take 1% over 0 any day.

Indeed. I had an idea about just that. As usual i had that idea in the place all true men find the solutions to all their problems.
That's right. I had this revelation while sitting on the toilet.

How about we start a thread in the feature suggestions part of the forums where we gather links for all the similar ideas with heatscaling that has piled up over the years?
Whether we agree with these ideas or not doesn't matter. We put those links there anyways to show PGI that it's a something they should seriously take a look at and that there are multiple ways to do it.

Then we put likes and/or votes on the different ways to do it. Gather enough votes or likes and sooner or later they have to pay attention.

[CDLord HHGD]

Spleenslitta, on 25 September 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

Indeed. I had an idea about just that. As usual i had that idea in the place all true men find the solutions to all their problems.
That's right. I had this revelation while sitting on the toilet.

How about we start a thread in the feature suggestions part of the forums where we gather links for all the similar ideas with heatscaling that has piled up over the years?
Whether we agree with these ideas or not doesn't matter. We put those links there anyways to show PGI that it's a something they should seriously take a look at and that there are multiple ways to do it.

Then we put likes and/or votes on the different ways to do it. Gather enough votes or likes and sooner or later they have to pay attention.

I was just gonna open a support ticket with a shameless self promotion and message Tina, but this works too.

[Mister Blastman]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Didnt read the topic or replies poping in quick to say this game needs changes to the heat scale or a reactor pool added. This is to have some sort of mech weigh limit to alphas. Its basically the same reason ghost heat was added but has up till now failed to limit crazy damage increases to alphas and damage over all. I guess it can be a way to limit some of the Omni mechs alphas without reducing their weapon damage or extending beam curation etc. Some Inner Sphere mechs also.

I wouldn't mind if they added control for stuff like power couplings or reactor gates. Alpha all your weapons and exceed the wattage output rating for the generator that piggybacks on the reactor and you start having brownouts and system failures such as actuators going awry or life support failures (imagine that on HPG!).

They could go all out with it--and it would be cool from a sci-fi perspective!

Energy weapons would have drawbacks. The only one they have now is lack of sustained fire--the heat does help lower the DPS but the pinpoint instant hitscan nature more than makes up for that.

[Spleenslitta]

Do you wanna do the honors and make that thread cdlord? I won't have much time to look over such a thread after the weekend you see.
I got a big pile of stressfull work coming up on monday. Each day after work i'll be a walking mental wreck.

[CDLord HHGD]

Spleenslitta, on 25 September 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Do you wanna do the honors and make that thread cdlord? I won't have much time to look over such a thread after the weekend you see.
I got a big pile of stressfull work coming up on monday. Each day after work i'll be a walking mental wreck.

I'll start it but I cannot guarantee its completeness. Let's start with a forum search for heatscale/scale..... I'll do a poll too (jeez, been a while)....

[CDLord HHGD]

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

I'll start it but I cannot guarantee its completeness. Let's start with a forum search for heatscale/scale..... I'll do a poll too (jeez, been a while)....

Wow, that's a lot of threads..... Too many to go through.

[Spleenslitta]

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Wow, that's a lot of threads..... Too many to go through.

No need read through all of them. How about putting a link for all of them in thread along with names for those that started those threads?
That way if you set up a voting thread you can introduce each method in the voting with it's creators name. Easy to keep track off them that way.

But the more of those links are in that thread the more attention the thread gets.

[CDLord HHGD]

Spleenslitta, on 25 September 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

No need read through all of them. How about putting a link for all of them in thread along with names for those that started those threads?
That way if you set up a voting thread you can introduce each method in the voting with it's creators name. Easy to keep track off them that way.

But the more of those links are in that thread the more attention the thread gets.

Gonna take a while.. I'm working on it.

[Widowmaker1981]

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

One thing MWO is lacking is a proper heat scale with consequences. Right now, we got a heat threshold that is modified by the number of heatsinks we equip. In TT, there was a set ceiling to that threshold with penalties along the way. Below is my interpretation of the TT/CBT heat scale as it would apply to MWO. I took the CBT penalties and matched them up with their MWO equivalent (or closest or most sensical to me). Now, is a 30 point threshold correct? Are my penalties too severe? I have no idea. This is a proposal for discussion.

How does this work?

If i fire an ERPPC, do i immediately suffer a 30% top speed reduction? If i fire 2, do i shutdown instantly?

If so, can you not see how completely unworkable that is? It would, quite literally, make equipping any weapon not called Gauss or (U)AC5 complete lunacy. There HAS to be some kind of buffer before you start getting penalties, or heat generating weapons become unusable, unless you completely rework the heat system to make weapons generate heat over time instead of upfront heat.

It has to be possible to fire energy weapons without incurring penalties. Its arguable certainly that penalties should come sooner than they do now, and be more diverse than just shut down, but if do what you propose here you just remove all heat generating weapons from the game.

[CDLord HHGD]

Widowmaker1981, on 25 September 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

How does this work?

If i fire an ERPPC, do i immediately suffer a 30% top speed reduction? If i fire 2, do i shutdown instantly?

If so, can you not see how completely unworkable that is? It would, quite literally, make equipping any weapon not called Gauss or (U)AC5 complete lunacy. There HAS to be some kind of buffer before you start getting penalties, or heat generating weapons become unusable, unless you completely rework the heat system to make weapons generate heat over time instead of upfront heat.

It has to be possible to fire energy weapons without incurring penalties. Its arguable certainly that penalties should come sooner than they do now, and be more diverse than just shut down, but if do what you propose here you just remove all heat generating weapons from the game.

Did you like READ the paragraph preceding the chart? Damn.....

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

Now, is a 30 point threshold correct? Are my penalties too severe? I have no idea. This is a proposal for discussion.

Ok, so here's the topic over in Feature Suggestions.

http://mwomercs.com/...at-scale-ideas/

Edited by cdlord, 25 September 2015 - 12:18 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Widowmaker1981, on 25 September 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

How does this work?

If i fire an ERPPC, do i immediately suffer a 30% top speed reduction? If i fire 2, do i shutdown instantly?

If so, can you not see how completely unworkable that is? It would, quite literally, make equipping any weapon not called Gauss or (U)AC5 complete lunacy. There HAS to be some kind of buffer before you start getting penalties, or heat generating weapons become unusable, unless you completely rework the heat system to make weapons generate heat over time instead of upfront heat.

It has to be possible to fire energy weapons without incurring penalties. Its arguable certainly that penalties should come sooner than they do now, and be more diverse than just shut down, but if do what you propose here you just remove all heat generating weapons from the game.

Revert ammo back to TT levels and you'd be more inclined to have to carry backup energy weapons. Not sure how many weapons got increased ammo counts aside from the AC10/20 but still...

Also, revert heat back to TT levels and get rid of ghost heat. Why are IS MLs still at 4 heat???

[Apnu]

cdlord, on 25 September 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

One thing MWO is lacking is a proper heat scale with consequences. Right now, we got a heat threshold that is modified by the number of heatsinks we equip. In TT, there was a set ceiling to that threshold with penalties along the way. Below is my interpretation of the TT/CBT heat scale as it would apply to MWO. I took the CBT penalties and matched them up with their MWO equivalent (or closest or most sensical to me). Now, is a 30 point threshold correct? Are my penalties too severe? I have no idea. This is a proposal for discussion.

I f*cking wish!

If we had to suffer slower, sluggish mechs, possible ammo cook-offs, and had targeting issues as we pushed up the heat scale before shutting down, we'd see an end to min/maxing boats. And that would be a good thing.

[FupDup]

Apnu, on 25 September 2015 - 12:17 PM, said:

I f*cking wish!

If we had to suffer slower, sluggish mechs, possible ammo cook-offs, and had targeting issues as we pushed up the heat scale before shutting down, we'd see an end to min/maxing boats. And that would be a good thing.

Actually I suspect that you would instead see those min-maxing boats trying to find the best way to sidestep the system that they can. This is what happens with any balancing change, people just shift to new meta builds.

For the current meta, that means Gauss Rifles for high PPFLD damage at extreme ranges for no heat.