16 replies to this topic

[irongiant6]

So I've been playing a bit with the trial mechs, and have had the most fun with the trial spider. Looking up guides and builds online, I played enough to be able to build this, which I found from various guides:


My question is how to play a light mech like this? I have learned not to stop running, but who do I follow in Assault mode? Who should I be targeting, and where should I position? Is this a good build? I haven't had very much success playing this mech or the trial mech, but I am very new. Thanks!

[Spike Brave]

I haven't made any Spider videos yet but I do have some for other lights mechs. Check them out you may find some useful advice.

https://www.youtube....6plZ4p9q4h657-m

Edited by Spike Brave, 25 September 2015 - 07:04 AM.

[Venom Turtle]

This thread helped me with the Locust, maybe some of the tactics might cross over to the Spider?

http://mwomercs.com/...-to-the-locust/

Edit: Also Spikes stuff linked above is really good.

Edited by Venom Turtle, 25 September 2015 - 08:49 AM.

[GreyNovember]

I'd ditch the AMS and armor your arm so you can turn into fire with it.

Otherwise, the build looks sane. Alternately you could go 3 MPL, gain 1 ton for another heatsink, and play as a brawly spider.

[ShinVector]

Myself.. I hardly play the Spider nowadays.. Tend to shy away from ECM mechs because they tend to make you play lazy in some ways. Eg, the situational awareness department...

This is some time back...
Being a carrier of ECM... At the time I somehow felt that I should be providing ECM support to the team since this was an LRM friendly map... While breaking off at times to engage the enemy...

I prefer the fast short range 3xMPLS builds..
Remember to peak from your right side exposing as little as needed and retreating asap after firing...

Also I tend to not stray too far away from team mates... When enemy suddenly go hard-on trying to kill you. This is you team mates come in... You dodge like scary running circles in an area fully of friendliess... Enemys get shot up and they die fast..

Need to learn to manage armour carefully in any light and make shots count!

Edited by ShinVector, 25 September 2015 - 09:17 AM.

[Leone]

For that build, I would stick near an assault. Just follow one of the biggest baddest looking mechs, and provide fire support and light deterrent duties. You'll be helping against lrms with the ecm and ams, which the big boys'll never mind. You shouldn't be the target whenever anyone's shooting your way, cuz your weapon system pale in comparison to theirs and enemy lights'll have a hard time focusing down anyone with you there to keep up the pressure on em.

Remember those little satellite drones you would get back in the old school shooter days? Yeah, be one of those, you'll do awesome.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 25 September 2015 - 09:54 AM.

[Grayson Sortek]

irongiant6, on 25 September 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

So I've been playing a bit with the trial mechs, and have had the most fun with the trial spider. Looking up guides and builds online, I played enough to be able to build this, which I found from various guides:


My question is how to play a light mech like this? I have learned not to stop running, but who do I follow in Assault mode? Who should I be targeting, and where should I position? Is this a good build? I haven't had very much success playing this mech or the trial mech, but I am very new. Thanks!

First thing you should know with fast lights: NO AMS. The tonnage is too much of a trade when you can outrun most, if not all, of those missiles.

I tend to run brawling Jenners because I like to setup ambushes and I like to support my bigger team members. This includes SRM4's and M-Lasers. The LL you have is actually a good idea for when you don't want to engage, but want to still get a kill assist, so don't let my play-style change your mind on that:

• I tend to do strafing runs from cover to cover so that they can't really track me and get a shot on me. Avoid open areas as much as possible. If I see my team getting into the giant ball of death I try to stick with the Assaults and assist them with their targets. It helps me because they take the initial hits and it helps them because I tend to cause chaos and expose some rear armor for them to shoot up.
  
• That being said, you have ECM. Try to stick close to those big lugs and give them ECM cover since they can't really run away from any incoming missiles.
  
• When I do have an ECM light I try to scout as much as possible and tell my team where the enemy is and what the composition is. IE: mixed medium and heavy contact in grid H8. It doesn't seem like a lot, and the game doesn't actually reward you for doing it, but having information can really be the difference between victory or defeat... OH! When scouting I don't take shots unless I have an exit strategy.
  
• If another light flags you down don't try to do the circle of death dance. Instead, run for your own team if they are close enough, which the other guy won't follow you into unless he has a death wish, or attempt to use the terrain to force the other guy to joust. You'll have a much better chance of doing some damage if you can get a straight run at the guy vs being tied up in the circle dance until his team shows up and blows you apart.
  
• I also tend to help out teammates by helping the big slow LRM boats not die against the enemy light harassers. Sometimes I group with other lights to swarm and confuse a larger enemy... stuff like that.

Key points: Move as much as possible, scout when able (and communicate), ECM cover your guys, strafing runs then get out, assist your team with focusing down targets.

Hope that helps!

[Not A Real RAbbi]

^^^ Grayson Sortek has hit the points that I'd share, too. Follow that advice, and you'll be a fine asset to your team.

[purplewasabi]

irongiant6, on 25 September 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

So I've been playing a bit with the trial mechs, and have had the most fun with the trial spider. Looking up guides and builds online, I played enough to be able to build this, which I found from various guides:


My question is how to play a light mech like this? I have learned not to stop running, but who do I follow in Assault mode? Who should I be targeting, and where should I position? Is this a good build? I haven't had very much success playing this mech or the trial mech, but I am very new. Thanks!

Lots of good pointers above, TLDR: Sneak, Peek, Retreat
Personally, Spiders are scout mechs. Scouts are represented by the 2 green points. One at the front which acts as a guide for the main group, the other covering the rear. They basically orbit around the main group, increasing their range in terms spatial awareness.

It can also be done with just a single light, but you might need to 5V with max engine capacity to pull it off efficiently. You could also use the high ground to play both roles as indicated by the red dot. The red line indicates your line of sight (would recommend Seismic Sensor module to increase your own spatial awareness). Work on extending that orbit. If possible, use your ERLL to manipulate the enemy while keeping your friendlies updated.

This should be good enough for you to start with. Check out the guides and strategies section for more tactics regarding light mechs.

GreyNovember, on 25 September 2015 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'd ditch the AMS and armor your arm so you can turn into fire with it.

Otherwise, the build looks sane. Alternately you could go 3 MPL, gain 1 ton for another heatsink, and play as a brawly spider.

I agree with the AMS. It conflicts with the ECM. It could expose your location turning your scouting efforts to naught. If your trending towards brawling, would recommend the 3xMPL build. However, keep in mind that the Spider is not a hunter. The Firestarters and Arctic Cheetahs are better suited for that role. Good luck and have fun.

[Melon Lord]

Ahh the SDR-5D

Like you the trial Spider was the first mech I felt comfortable with when I started playing almost a year ago. I loved the idea of helping my team mates with ECM while I still sucked so the 5D was a no brainer first choice. Here is my build back then, which is what I recommend for someone starting off.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2904da8a088f2a2

Don't worry about only having 5 armor in the head. You're driving one of the most hardest to hit mechs, in my 300+ games in a 5D I've been headshot maybe once, and that was due to double Artillery strikes.

The ERLL is much better than the LL. Since you're new you won't be doing that much damage, and most of your $$$ will probably come from assists. The extra range on the ERLL makes this MUCH easier, and it doesn't generate more heat than the LL. Like others said, you don't need AMS at all, one because you need all the tonnage you can get, and also because the ECM will provide you with infinitely better missile protection.

Stick with the main group, providing ECM cover. Never stop moving, rock back and forth if you have to. Snipe enemies that the bigger mechs are shooting and run back behind them inbetween shots/cooling down. Using them as a meat shield is fine since you're a light and since you're helping them with ECM anyways. Try not to peek and shoot from the same place twice, one alpha from an assault and you're dead or legged.

Have fun, and when you get better in general look up the 3 MPL SDR-5D. It's fun as well, but you need better skills since you don't have the option to poke from far far away like you did. Also if you did buy the LL don't worry it's still good, keep that as ERLL cost a bit for a newbie. Just ditch the AMS and add more jump jets.

Edited by Melon Lord, 25 September 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[Lanzman]

All of this advice for Spiders is how I have learned thru brutal trial and error to run my Locusts. Run like hell, potshot where you can, support your big slow teammates, and occaisionally run to the enemy base when you're in that mode. Even if you can't stay and capture it, you can annoy the hell out of the bad guys and disrupt their plan.

Edited by Lanzman, 25 September 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Good point above about the ERLL. Especially as heat efficient as that build already is, you can spare some even on hot maps like Mordor and Caustic and Tourmaline. Soo get crazy with the Cheez Whiz!

The ERLL makes for good harassing. Especially if you find some brawlers moving on the enemy team, even when they're beyond your sensor range, you can still hit whatever you can see out to over 1km with that thing. Not a whole lot of damage, but it'll still turn heads especially in the lower tiers of the PUG queue. That alone may be quite valuable to your teammates, simply slowing an enemy advance and distracting the attention of one or more of the enemy from the direction of your team.

The ECM is valuable in TWO ways:

1.) It protects YOU from passive detection by the enemy (They don't get the red dorito on you simply for having had you in their field of view within 800M, unlike non-ECM-shielded mechs), allowing you more freedom of movement and choice of position.

2.) It protects YOUR TEAM, when they're within 180M of you, from the same.

ECM (TAG and NARC and UAVs notwithstanding) keeps the LRMs and Streak SRMs off of you and your covered teammates, and it keeps the enemy from getting detailed target info on you and your team without closing to under 180M. This is a HUGE advantage. Even today, a couple years after ECM came online, it's often true that, all else being equal, the team with more ECM will generally enjoy a significant advantage over their opponent.

And that also means that playing COUNTER ECM can be a big advantage for your team. Every ECM has a COUNTER mode, and sneaking up behind the enemy and countering his ECMs can significantly shift the momentum in a firefight. So when the opportunity presents itself, get bold. Run up to some cover very near (and behind) your enemy, put the ECM in COUNTER, and occasionally recheck the enemy's position relative to you. Maybe even fire an occasional alpha into the soft back armor of one of the enemy's mechs (preferably their ECMs, so you can go back to DISRUPT and sow further chaos).

Spider is truly remarkable in that it has that kind of speed, jump jets, and ECM. There are few like it in that way (really, just the Arctic Cheetah, though the Clan tech makes that a clearly superior mech even if it does lose a step in speed to the Spider). Those are the advantages you have in your mech. Use them.

[Golrar]

Best advice I can give for an aspiring light pilot is:


Drive it like you stole it! Never stop running, speed is life.

Hit and fade, stay out of LoS. Always make attacks from behind or flank the enemy. You have speed and maneuverability on your side, take advantage of it. Never run in a straight line.

Always think about your next piece of cover. There is no shame in running away.

Never stand toe to toe with anybody, even your own weight class. Be sneaky, shoot for the legs. You are there to scout and harass the enemy, and then take down the wounded gazelles at the end.

Wolfpack whenever possible. A lance of fast lights are the bane of any single mech regardless of size.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Predetermined Recklessness.

Edit:

The idea being that you play the squirrel to intentionally draw the enemy so that they break their firing lines and turn their back to face your teammates and so on.

You need to know the maps and where you can go to cover and where the enemy commonly goes to form up.

It works great when your team plays aggressive and tries to proactively flank and push the enemy.

If your team is passive then your goal is to look for the most isolated enemy and see if you can whittle the target down and survive for as long as possible hoping that your efforts prevents the enemy from focusing down your teammates.

So this can be done with a mech as slow as ~127 KPH and JJs (for vertical maps like Mining Collective of Canyon Network for example), so some mediums can be included in this play style.

And ECM is not required since the idea is to be spotted to draw the enemy on a chase, however a mech lacking JJs needs to be ready to move as soon as you see an enemy and not keep poking from the same spots.

Also for Modules Adv. Seismic and Radar Deprivation are practically a must, since you need to know what to expect around a corner and when you are being targeted (the screen flashes when an enemy loses targeting).

One general hiccup is needing a mech that can hit UAVs, since that is one duty you can easily carry out for your team, and so the better vertical tracking, the closer you can hit a UAV over head.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 26 September 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Durant Carlyle]

Three adjustments to that build I would make:

1. Only put 4-5 points of armor on the rear torsos (CT, LT, RT). You want very near maximum on the front. Also, on the subject of armor, I like running very near maximum armor points. The only place I strip from is the head. I will sacrifice speed for full armor and the weapons I want. This goes for all lights (my builds anyway)
2. Get rid of AMS. Full armor on the left arm (use it to shield).
3. ER LL instead of LL (longer range harassment).

I run a build similar to that, but with no ECM and a couple of extra heat sinks.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 26 September 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[mailin]

I totally agree with Durant's advice on the armor. I run 3 mplas in mine. I don't like sniping, but that's a personal choice.

One thing to do, is set up at least 3 weapon groups. 1 for your arm weapons, another for the torso weapon and a third for all weapons. Set your weapon group with all to chain fire and use this group when you encounter a running light. This will allow you to do regular damage to the legs rather than the all or nothing that you get with alpha strikes.

Also, in a Spider, if your team has a DDC or Hellbringer with ECM, try to get behind the enemy as soon as you can and harass their rear. Also, look for any targets of opportunity like AFKs early on and take them out as quickly as you can.

And get rid of that AMS.

As far as assault mode goes, get behind the enemy and look for AFK and DCed enemies. Once the rest of your team has engaged, tap their base. Do this quickly and then run away. You are trying to distract the enemy and get some to head back to their base. Keep an eye on their base and if no one comes after a bit, hit it again.

You will learn which mechs you can easily take out (like assaults with long range builds) and which ones to avoid like Streak crows or enemies with multiple LB Xs.

Spiders are not high damage builds like so many other mechs, but they can be very, very effective and in the right hands you can still take on a Firestarter or Arctic Cheetah one on one with a reasonable chance of success.

See you on the battlefield.

Edited by mailin, 26 September 2015 - 12:23 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

as a Spider Specilest here is some advice

the 5D is widely considered the best Spider, mostly because of its ECM, it can carry 3 lasers upto 6 Jumpjets and move at 150kph, those facts combined with the Spiders amazing hitboxes makes it rather more durable than its ammount of armor would suggest.
I have 2 go-to builds for the 5D, and own 1 setup with each build, 1 has 2 ML and 1 ERLL in the CT, mounts near max armor an XL255 engine and near max armor, the other has 3 MPL and a BAP for faster target info and longer range sensors.

I prefer the 3MPL version but if I know I will be escorting the team the ERLL/ML version works better ^{(although now if I know that will be my job I tend to take the KFX it makes a much better escort)}

if I am not the only ECM on my team I will usualy start the match scouting, this is high risk low reward, but if it pays off I can provide information which proves instrumental to our victory, it is especial satisfying if I can put up a UAV covering the entire enemy team, or if I can sneak up behind a stationary assault and place artillery just behind it.
if you are seen it is best to break off and hide, you do not want to loose much armor while scouting

when your team starts moving to engage the enemy move to flank, you want to be hitting them from the opposite direction to the rest of your team, ideally you want to hit as many of them as possible a few seconds before the rest of your team is ready to walk round a corner and start the fight, if you can give your team the back armor of a few enemy then most likely your team will win, if the enemy do not turn to chase you off then go for the kill, pick a big guy and rip open its rear armor, but pay attention, if someone notices you you need to break off, usualy the best tactic is to move out of cover at full speed, hit the enemy then run off to cover without slowing down or running straight, then swing back to hit them from another direction, do not be predictable, if the enemy notice a pattern to your attack they will kill you.

if you find a lone Mech with few or no short range weapons (e.g. an LRM boat) then kill it, few specialist long range builds will be a match for a spider at close range, the same goes for lone close range Mechs if you have long range weapons, and as with any target, if you can stay behind it do so.

the 5K is the best combat spider, and the Champion variant is nearly the optimal build, just move 1 point of armor from the front to back side torsos and that Mech is the best it can be, I was irritated to see the armor distribution on that, just 1 more point to the back and it would survive an AC20 hit to any location.
the ERLL + 4 MGs means the 5K really shines towards the end of the match, when the enemy have open torsos target the Mechs and figure out where they are vulnerable, your ERLL does some great damage against armor but the Machine Guns are excellent against Mech structure, so can quickly kill Mechs with no armor in the center torso
Some people think the Spider 5V is useless, they see that it can only mount 2 energy weapons and both hardpoints are in the CT so they discount it, they just do not understand the 5V and that is fine.

the SDR-5V is the absolute most mobile Mech currently in game, it can move at 169KPH with 12 Jumpjets, yes the 5K can match the speed and has Jets but only 6, and to get that speed with even 6 Jets it has to seriously compromise on firepower, 1 ML or MPL with 4 MGs, or just 1 Large class laser.
the 5V has a maximum of 12 Jumpjets, no other Mech can mount more than 8, this means the 5V is not just an extremely fast Mech (the Locusts and some Commandos can be up to 2KPH faster), with the added mobility from the 12 Jets it is one of the best scouts or squirrel Mechs available, because literally nothing can catch it.
Even the few Mechs which can keep up do not have the advantage of Jumpjets (except the 5K) so it can loose them with ease on most maps. the 12 Jets also mean the 5V can get to places no other Mech can, a huge advantage when it comes to scouting or escaping