29 replies to this topic

[LORD ORION]

Just happens that, in a match with a good player I was in a unit in, we scored the exact same damage.... but the teams are WAY out of whack on skill level.

I stayed equal in my PSR level for this game. Undoubtedly Nomad's PSR went up.

I was able to get 1 solo kill, but the team could not pick up the same assists on the mechs I maimed, nor could I find an injured mech to finish off when the match reached it's tipping point and our team got rolled.

I should be seperating myself from most of the people on this team *especially the assault pilots* (as should the 2 who did 400 damage). But I stayed the same PSR, and I am betting everyone else on my team went down in PSR.

This is wrong...

[El Bandito]

Hey, if you did 653 damage in a losing game and a kill, you deserve to have 355 score, which means you deserve to not lose rating.

Ultimately victory is what matters the most. Solo-Q is much better for the current tier system though, as group players can just ride on the coat tail of a good group.

Also, this is a 12 v. 12 game. Some people are not as skilled, and some people just have bad luck and die to a single alpha. You just gotta take the good with the bad, and pray the next team has better skill/luck. Like LoL's Solo-Q.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 September 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[Nick86]

I'm not sure OP understands how this all works.. Maybe hardly anyone does hence all the nonsensical whining.
please stop..

[Ted Wayz]

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Hey, if you did 653 damage in a losing game and a kill, you deserve to have 355 score, which means you deserve to not lose rating.

Ultimately victory is all that matters. Solo-Q is much better for the current tier system though, as group players can just ride on the coat tail of a good group.

The thing that matters most is the thing you have least control over.

What does the "P" in PSR stand for?

Nick86, on 26 September 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

I'm not sure OP understands how this all works.. Maybe hardly anyone does hence all the nonsensical whining.
please stop..

We have read Paul's description, we do know how it works. Constructive criticism is not whining. Speaking of constructive, do you know what that means?

[El Bandito]

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

The thing that matters most is the thing you have least control over.

What does the "P" in PSR stand for?

"P" stands for "personal", and the system did take account of his actions--which is why he is not dropping any rating. But his team lost, and that also must be taken into account.

Its a 12 v12 game, of course you have little control over the whole thing, especially in higher tiers. But that's just how a team based game works. I don't remember LoL players demanding more Elo gain in a victory or a loss, just cause he did more than his mates. Win with your team, and you get better rewarded.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 September 2015 - 07:27 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Assuming that you and Nomad have the exact same skill, across a very large number of games, you both will end up in the same tier if you guys start playing the games together at the same time.

[Screech]

LORD ORION, on 26 September 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

I should be seperating myself from most of the people on this team *especially the assault pilots* (as should the 2 who did 400 damage). But I stayed the same PSR, and I am betting everyone else on my team went down in PSR.

This is wrong...

I am not following you here at all. If your PSR stays the same and the rest of your teams PSR is lowered how are you not separating yourself from the rest of the team.

[Ted Wayz]

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

"P" stands for "personal", and the system did take account of his actions--which is why he is not dropping any rating. But his team lost, and that also must be taken into account.

Its a 12 v12 game, of course you have little control over the whole thing, especially in higher tiers. But that's just how a team based game works. I don't remember LoL players demanding more Elo gain in a victory or a loss, just cause he did more than his mates. Win with your team, and you get better rewarded.

People keep bring up LOL. MWO is so far away from LOL it isn't even a comparison.

1 in 5 has more influence than 1 in 12, agreed? Additionally LOL has roles, MWO doesn't, agreed? LOL you do not win a match just by killing and doing damage, agreed?

In LOL players need to act somewhat independently due to lanes, MWO does not, agreed? And most tiered LOL players would not ever enter a match without coms, MWO maybe 1 in 6, agreed? So just stop comparing a "kill everything in your path" non-competitive game to a comp game that is one of the most popular in the world.

[Ted Wayz]

The whole "player contribution to a win" falls on its face because a player with 0 kills 0 assists 0 damage etc. gets the same PSR reward as a losing player who carries his team with 6 kills 5 assists 800 damage but loses. They both stay even. So just stop.

[El Bandito]

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

People keep bring up LOL. MWO is so far away from LOL it isn't even a comparison.

1 in 5 has more influence than 1 in 12, agreed? Additionally LOL has roles, MWO doesn't, agreed? LOL you do not win a match just by killing and doing damage, agreed?

In LOL players need to act somewhat independently due to lanes, MWO does not, agreed? And most tiered LOL players would not ever enter a match without coms, MWO maybe 1 in 6, agreed? So just stop comparing a "kill everything in your path" non-competitive game to a comp game that is one of the most popular in the world.

Doesn't matter. Even if I remove my comment relating to LoL, my other points are still valid.

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

The whole "player contribution to a win" falls on its face because a player with 0 kills 0 assists 0 damage etc. gets the same PSR reward as a losing player who carries his team with 6 kills 5 assists 800 damage but loses. They both stay even. So just stop.

That's a fringe case and needs to be addressed anyway. MWO should have an AFK detection system and remove the inactive player from any reward and rating gain. And if a person moved around and did 0/0/0, well that's some thing I have never seen in three years of playing--though lucky headshots do happen.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 September 2015 - 08:55 AM.

[Nick86]

Dear Ted Wayz..if you guys understand psr, really, then what is the point in threads like this? Constructive? My ass..









D

[Nick86]

Psr is actually linked to points scored relating to playstyle as opposed to being good. I could go round one shotting pre-damaged mechs in the head all day and hardly raise my psr due to the way it works out points. Thats why an amazing player like me is tier 5.. Too efficient to farm match score! ������

[Satan n stuff]

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Hey, if you did 653 damage in a losing game and a kill, you deserve to have 355 score, which means you deserve to not lose rating.

From what I can tell you only need 250 or so match score to not lower your PSR on a loss, 400 or so will get you a slight increase in PSR. Of course actions are supposedly rated differently in the two systems so I don't think you can accurately pin down a number for each possible outcome.

[Paigan]

LORD ORION, on 26 September 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

Just happens that, in a match with a good player I was in a unit in, we scored the exact same damage.... but the teams are WAY out of whack on skill level.

I stayed equal in my PSR level for this game. Undoubtedly Nomad's PSR went up.

I was able to get 1 solo kill, but the team could not pick up the same assists on the mechs I maimed, nor could I find an injured mech to finish off when the match reached it's tipping point and our team got rolled.

I should be seperating myself from most of the people on this team *especially the assault pilots* (as should the 2 who did 400 damage). But I stayed the same PSR, and I am betting everyone else on my team went down in PSR.

This is wrong...

Yes. This.

I notice time and time again that PSR still values team outcome (win/lose) for, say, 99% and just in extreme corner cases (~1%), pilot skill.

I've had TONS of matches where we won but I sucked, still my PSR went up.
And matches where we lost but I was really good (given the circumstances) and my PSR went down every time.

The score itself is nonsense as well, as it punishes efficiency, accuracte and actual contribution and rewards useless damage spraying.

Edited by Paigan, 26 September 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[madhermit]

LORD ORION, on 26 September 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

But I stayed the same PSR, and I am betting everyone else on my team went down in PSR.

Working as intended. You were separated from them. They went lower.

[Widowmaker1981]

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:15 AM, said:

Ultimately victory is what matters the most. Solo-Q is much better for the current tier system though, as group players can just ride on the coat tail of a good group.

You are correct, the current system works ok for the solo queue. That is assuming the pilots in solo dont also play group. If they do however, which many (most?) do, the system is screwed, because Win/Loss is NOT primarily affected by your skill in group queue, it is primarily affected by the people you group with. Anyone who plays a significant amount of their games in the group queue with a semi good group will rise PSR unnaturally fast.

Basically, unless you ONLY play solo queue, the system is fubar.

[LORD ORION]

So many rediculous bads telling me everything is fine and working as intended...

You cannot get a more clear cut example of the team the MM assembled dragging down my c-bill earnings, while also not doing enough to separate me and a few others from the bads.

[Ted Wayz]

Nick86, on 26 September 2015 - 07:45 AM, said:

Dear Ted Wayz..if you guys understand psr, really, then what is the point in threads like this? Constructive? My ass..





D

Yes, we are constructively criticizing a system to urge PGI into action. The more threads, comments, concerns the more likely things will change. Case in point BK hitboxes being looked at.

But your post...ironic that it mentions the word constructive.

[Ghogiel]

El Bandito, on 26 September 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

"P" stands for "personal",

It stands for pilot.

[El Bandito]

Ghogiel, on 26 September 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

It stands for pilot.

I see. Still the same thing though.