92 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Regardless of playstyle, you guys don't actually think its hitboxes are okay/good, do you?

[Deathlike]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 September 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Regardless of playstyle, you guys don't actually think its hitboxes are okay/good, do you?

Only if you like Kintaros, Trebuchets, and Vindicators...

Edited by Deathlike, 26 September 2015 - 12:03 PM.

[Ted Wayz]

One person thinks it is decent against a wave of critics.

And they think they are right.

Jesus.

[Victorion]

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:

One person thinks it is decent against a wave of critics.

And they think they are right.

Jesus.

One person?

How can you play this game while being that blind?

There are numerous people, almost equalling the detractors, in every thread besides the super negative ones, espousing that it's a fun mech that they like play.

Apparently, that's just too much for people to handle.

I know, I know, shocking that a mech you don't like and you find sub-optimal, or DOA, or whatever flowery language you want to phrase "I don't like this mech", happens to actually have some people who are enjoying playing it.

Sue us.

[Ted Wayz]

Deathlike, on 26 September 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

Only if you like Kintaros, Trebuchets, and Vindicators...

I like Kintaros and Vindicators. Both are mobile without having to stuff the max engine in them. Vindicators have JJs to help with mobility. And when you twist, get this, the damage actually spreads. And the Vindi can twist like a mad man.

I have much better matches with both than the BK.

When someone says I have had 700 point matches...I just trail off. Of course you can have good matches with any mech. But when compared to other chassis do they consistently hold their own is the question. I am surprised when I do 700 damage in a Commando. Timberwolf, not so much.

Meanwhile for each response that someone tries to convince everyone the BK is good there is a post that goes up where scores of people say it is bad. In this case the majority truly rules.

Victorion, on 26 September 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

One person? How can you play this game while being that blind? There are numerous people, almost equalling the detractors, in every thread besides the super negative ones, espousing that it's a fun mech that they like play. Apparently, that's just too much for people to handle. I know, I know, shocking that a mech you don't like and you find sub-optimal, or DOA, or whatever flowery language you want to phrase "I don't like this mech", happens to actually have some people who are enjoying playing it. Sue us.

I pretty much see you defending it.

[Gas Guzzler]

It would be a lot more fun if the CT wasn't such a damagemagnet. The low hardpoints I can get around, the CT is what bothers me. Most would agree.

[Alistair Winter]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 September 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Regardless of playstyle, you guys don't actually think its hitboxes are okay/good, do you?

Yep, I sure do. But it may be an issue at Tier 1, where more pilots are smart enough to aim their laservomit at the helmet, instead of trying to hit the torso. Against Tier 3 players, the BK hitboxes are more than ok. It spreads damage very well, as long as people are aiming at your torso.

[Uncle Totty]

Victorion, on 26 September 2015 - 12:15 PM, said:

One person?

How can you play this game while being that blind?

There are numerous people, almost equalling the detractors, in every thread besides the super negative ones, espousing that it's a fun mech that they like play.

Apparently, that's just too much for people to handle.

I know, I know, shocking that a mech you don't like and you find sub-optimal, or DOA, or whatever flowery language you want to phrase "I don't like this mech", happens to actually have some people who are enjoying playing it.

Sue us.

But he does not like it. So EVERYONE must not like it. They have to.

As for the Black Knight, it is a shame we can not just do a 4-way fight to see how it would hold up.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1fe56886b59f277
vs
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dcdc55b9049553a
vs
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d4437cce4db77c6
vs
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a6763a570461b74

[Finn McShae]

I'm having fairly mixed results with mine, haven't found the "right" playstyle to fit them. I like em fine, feel nimble eventhough I haven't basic'd them yet.

Man, they do feel like they have tissue paper for armor though.

[Sarlic]

Greetings from the Atlas-family!

[MeiSooHaityu]

zagibu, on 26 September 2015 - 08:23 AM, said:

Sounds like OP is mostly used to playing as fire support, which obviously doesn't work well in the BK.

Honestly, yes I am more used to fire support in general. I do use some short range to decent effect though, but they are primarily Mediums (Hunchback, Enforcer and Centurion).

I've also use low slung hardpoint mechs before like the Ilya Muromets. The Ilya is one of my top 3 favorite heavies too.

Still, there is just something about this mech. I think it is because the Ilya is burst with ballistics. I can pop in, shoot, pop out. This extra duration on the energy is hurting me and even when I twist, shots just hit CT.

Maybe post correction to the CT hitbox it will suit me better and a good short range setup might work. All I can do is just hope at this point.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 26 September 2015 - 09:04 AM, said:

If we had more serious urban maps with a lot of tall buildings that nobody can shoot over then I think the BK would be in a lot better shape relative to the competition.

That said, moving the arm hardpoints to the top and outside surfaces of the arms instead of starting with the bottom would go a surprisingly long way toward boosting it. The torso hardpoints seem good enough, and the head is just fine - the arms are the real stand-out problem.

Agreed. I seemed to have much better games with the BK on River City and Crimson Strait even. I think the type of cover is a huge thing for the BK.

I have a BK variant with a small laser in the arm that only exists to move the LLaser up to a higher hardpoint.

[lshtaria]

I used GXP to master the R variant and the bonus 4th variant. Parked them and sold the other 2. Trash mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Gas Guzzler, on 26 September 2015 - 12:22 PM, said:

It would be a lot more fun if the CT wasn't such a damagemagnet. The low hardpoints I can get around, the CT is what bothers me. Most would agree.

I'm going to say this. The BK has a softer CT than the Catapult. I have spent a lot of time with the Catapults (especially K2 and Jester) and the BK's CT feels far more fragile.

I think since the last quirk buff, the Catapult CT feels on par with my Ebon Jaguar. It is soft (like the Jag's), but it can hold up ok. In comparison the BK's just feels like butter. It is so much that I have reduced armor in the side torsos to 40 points, and the CT still goes out before the side torsos get out of yellow in many cases. I swear I fire and immediatly twist, but that CT just keeps flashing.

It's just so freaking tricky to use.

[Deathlike]

Ted Wayz, on 26 September 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

I like Kintaros and Vindicators. Both are mobile without having to stuff the max engine in them. Vindicators have JJs to help with mobility. And when you twist, get this, the damage actually spreads. And the Vindi can twist like a mad man.

I have much better matches with both than the BK.

When someone says I have had 700 point matches...I just trail off. Of course you can have good matches with any mech. But when compared to other chassis do they consistently hold their own is the question. I am surprised when I do 700 damage in a Commando. Timberwolf, not so much.

Meanwhile for each response that someone tries to convince everyone the BK is good there is a post that goes up where scores of people say it is bad. In this case the majority truly rules.

I've had better luck surviving in the 3 mechs I've mentioned, but they have obvious issues. Not even the Awesome has the ability to be hit like that from the sides like the BK does (it feels like an exaggeration, but it isn't).

I do feel that occasion there are people that deviate from the majority rule... either because they play differently or play a certain way (or not), or they are not very good at judging stuff. For instance, I can understand how a particular build/playstyle can make it work due to game mechanics (and I don't preach LRMs because it's not just not reliable... or for me for that matter)... but occasionally people actually don't play (or notice playing) against higher tier players and their view of a particular mech gets skewed (because how would you know if a mech is good or bad when you're not playing against the best?)

It's one of those things that people never really analyze or are not capable of analyzing objectively. Mind you, it is still possible to like a bad mech. There's nothing wrong with that. It's saying a bad mech is good in the right hands is not really good analysis.

MeiSooHaityu, on 26 September 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

I'm going to say this. The BK has a softer CT than the Catapult. I have spent a lot of time with the Catapults (especially K2 and Jester) and the BK's CT feels far more fragile.

I think since the last quirk buff, the Catapult CT feels on par with my Ebon Jaguar. It is soft (like the Jag's), but it can hold up ok. In comparison the BK's just feels like butter. It is so much that I have reduced armor in the side torsos to 40 points, and the CT still goes out before the side torsos get out of yellow in many cases. I swear I fire and immediatly twist, but that CT just keeps flashing.

It's just so freaking tricky to use.

The Butter Knave strikes again!

Edited by Deathlike, 26 September 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[DrKronic]

Alistair Winter, on 26 September 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Yep, I sure do. But it may be an issue at Tier 1, where more pilots are smart enough to aim their laservomit at the helmet, instead of trying to hit the torso. Against Tier 3 players, the BK hitboxes are more than ok. It spreads damage very well, as long as people are aiming at your torso.

What the Weird, anyways barring that guy the center torso is huge on the black knight, but the good news on that is that the 7-L model is actually XL friendly then, I've never had it not be cored out lol, even with losing an arm shielding people just don't hit the sides very much

I've basic'd the black knights so far, in just a few days and that doesn't prove they are good just that I have time on my hands, if anything I've found them to be lackluster mechs

I'm tier 3 as well but the mech itself I'd say the Thunderbolt, Jagermech and sadly even my Jester Catapult is much better due to the quirks and the higher weapon hardpoints at being energy mech, not to mention clan stuff, so yea it's a firm 3rd-rate mech

PS I've had 700 damage matches in it, but so what still sucks

[Xetelian]

I think the BK is the nicest looking humanoid, especially the head.

I'd compare it to a CTF and GHR but without the JJs and without high mounts.

[MechaBattler]

Does anyone think the design could be saved with the heavy structure quirk and infotech changes they tested last pts? Does tanky, plus infotech or slight performance buff, make up for the mech's disadvantages?

I'm inclined to think no. Even if they do a weapon rebalance. It's not going to help designs like this. I think this is a good example of a design needing something a little more. If only there was more variety in the energy weapon department.

[VirtualSmitty]

MechaBattler, on 26 September 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Does anyone think the design could be saved with the heavy structure quirk and infotech changes they tested last pts? Does tanky, plus infotech or slight performance buff, make up for the mech's disadvantages?

I'm inclined to think no. Even if they do a weapon rebalance. It's not going to help designs like this. I think this is a good example of a design needing something a little more. If only there was more variety in the energy weapon department.

I think a combo of structure and armor quirks would help it a ton.

[ChapeL]

Had trouble at first but once I elited the ( R ) variant, it turned into my favorite IS heavy. I put a trio of ErLL on it and with the basic quirks only give 7 meters to the Clan ERLL's 750. Put a range module and you're beyond that.

It also "suffers" from being mostly CT ... so it's very XP friendly... as odd as it may sound.