129 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Wintersdark, on 01 October 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Its nearly impossible to lose rating on a win.

You don't need to "do well" to maintain or improve rating on a loss, its easy to get enough damage to on a loss if your equipped for it.

As I said, I gain rating on almost all losses as it stands, and I'm t3 and not amazingly good at the game.

That's because the tiers are really just actvity-indicators. Paul said the Tiers are skill indicators because people tend to get better as they play longer. People in Tier 1 have enough drops under their belt to know how this game is played, and they tend to do well because of their experience playing the game


Remember that thread "That all those who doubted me..." and the OP shows his Tier1 rating as if he were a hot shot? He has a large number of matched played. Good for him. PSR does not measure skill, though.

[JC Daxion]

the funny part is people actually care..

News flash.. tiers have always been in.. (though not exactly how they are, But they existed)

a new player was never thrown in with the best of the best. I personally played with both, new and great players, though i typically was in the middle..


We also knew who where the good players through events, and tournaments.

You know who kills you all the time.. You see the good players, and bad in game.. there is Zero difference now!


What makes me laugh are all the people that say how bad lower tiers are, when the upper ones can do the exact same things. The other day i was in a match, and just about every single person said they were in tier 3 on my team. I thought cool, should be a decent match.

what happened? I scouted, found mechs 3 different times in the first few mins of the match that were with in 300m of us.. called out targets and tried to get the team to move, and nothing.. by the time the 5-6 min mark hit, Not a single person moved off the base cap, and we got surrounded, and the game was over 2 mins later as they rushed the entire team from all sides at once.

Bad play can happen at all tiers. People can play selfish at all tiers.. and people put way to much into what tier they are... after all, it has existed for a long time.

[Revis Volek]

Wintersdark, on 01 October 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

Its nearly impossible to lose rating on a win.

You don't need to "do well" to maintain or improve rating on a loss, its easy to get enough damage to on a loss if your equipped for it.

As I said, I gain rating on almost all losses as it stands, and I'm t3 and not amazingly good at the game.

I have literally lost PSR in less then half a dozen matches since last week. All losses, never on a win.

I have gained PSR in 2 matches where i did less then 100 dmg. Both Wins, but i have been carried TWICE.


So as far as i can tell, unless you literally bomb a match or your team gets totally rolled its hard to get PSR to go down. But there are many, many time where its no change or goes up. Even on a mediocre game as long as you got that W.

Staying alive so you can dish out your dmg has become the PSR META. Just get over 350 dmg and hope for the W....

[Appogee]

B A B Y D O L L, on 01 October 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

I wish there was a number or percentage showing progress rather than just a line getting longer.. Do we really have to use a ruler?

LOL. I have been. My PSR went up 4 pixels since last Sunday.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Tiers do provide a bit of useful information, though:

You can measure a person's reading comprehension based on if they brag about being Tier1. If they do brag about being in Tier1, then they can't read forum posts very well. So, Tiers can demonstrate something other than sheer number of matches played...

[Aresye]

1453 R, on 01 October 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

Did not actually read much of that thread. Too depressing to see a good debate I couldn't participate in.

Apparently a good thing I didn't get too deep into it, though. I shall remember I'm not supposed to bother you in the future. Handy bit of information to have.

Going back to one of your earlier posts, don't feel pressured to not start up a balance discussion for fear of "Tier Retaliation." I can pretty much guarantee you that won't happen, unless you or someone else makes a remark around Tiers that specifically ignites one.

I don't know if Mcgral18's incident is the one Mystere is referring to, but from Mcgral18's take, it sounds like the Tier argument got started by one of the other players. I haven't ever known Mcgral18 to be an elitist type player that would deliberately go there on purpose. He's always had very sound arguments even before the Tiers were public.

The thing that irks me, is you and others are trying to make this whole thing appear as if the forums is just a cesspool of Tier 1 oppression, and that has simply not been the case. Even the thread created by Kristian is not really a bash against lower Tier players, but rather an unnecessary show of pride based around having a fragile ego.

If any group out there is being unfairly judged and prejudiced on these forums more so than any other group, it's the Tier 1 competitive players, most of whom don't even post here. That's why I took mine off. I want players to read my posts and take what I have to say just as any other player, not feel compelled to shy out of discussions nor react with passive aggressiveness simply because I have a graphic showing, "I play a lot and do okay."

[Felicitatem Parco]

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 October 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Going back to one of your earlier posts, don't feel pressured to not start up a balance discussion for fear of "Tier Retaliation." I can pretty much guarantee you that won't happen, unless you or someone else makes a remark around Tiers that specifically ignites one.

I don't know if Mcgral18's incident is the one Mystere is referring to, but from Mcgral18's take, it sounds like the Tier argument got started by one of the other players. I haven't ever known Mcgral18 to be an elitist type player that would deliberately go there on purpose. He's always had very sound arguments even before the Tiers were public.

The thing that irks me, is you and others are trying to make this whole thing appear as if the forums is just a cesspool of Tier 1 oppression, and that has simply not been the case. Even the thread created by Kristian is not really a bash against lower Tier players, but rather an unnecessary show of pride based around having a fragile ego.

If any group out there is being unfairly judged and prejudiced on these forums more so than any other group, it's the Tier 1 competitive players, most of whom don't even post here. That's why I took mine off. I want players to read my posts and take what I have to say just as any other player, not feel compelled to shy out of discussions nor react with passive aggressiveness simply because I have a graphic showing, "I play a lot and do okay."

It's okay. Anyone who stays out of a discussion because of someone's Tier rating probably wouldn't have contributed much value, since they think Tiers are important. And people who tout their Tiers can automatically be discounted from having valuable opinions, too, since they think Tiers are important and are supposedly Skill Indicators.

I have a Legendary Founder's badge. That lends more than a Tier1 rating, since playing from Closed Beta means I have more in-game experience than most players. It's not a Skill Indicator, just an XP indicator.

PSR does not measure skill. It measures a mixture of match score, W/L ratio, and games played. If game's played = high, then PSR will be high.

Oh, yeah, it only measures activity in year 2015, too. I have not played much this year due to hardware faults and family life, so despite my many Wins and high Match scores, I don't have a high Tier rating.

So, bleh :-p

[eastwardsun]

will we ever have a off button ? for the Tiers im rubbish at this game but I don't need to be told it at the end of every game ..

[Mystere]

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

I'm gonna go ahead and say he's talking about me and my Clam Laser thread.

Someone was calling me a no skill Scrub who needs Crutch nerfs because Clam mechs are fine and overnerfed already, and that I also couldn't torso twist.
They couldn't understand the fact of damage/tick, how all but 2 Lasers are in the Clan favour for damage over the same duration.

I felt it was appropriate. Turns out I wasn't wrong. Tier 3, it turns out.

Actually, I was originally thinking of someone else.

Yours wasn't an expression of arrogance, just one of frustration and/or annoyance (and it was pretty obvious to anyone paying attention in that thread).

And although I did call you out -- because you did "go there" -- I saw it as a Freudian slip.



And now it's my turn ...

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 October 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

Going back to one of your earlier posts, don't feel pressured to not start up a balance discussion for fear of "Tier Retaliation." I can pretty much guarantee you that won't happen, unless you or someone else makes a remark around Tiers that specifically ignites one.

I don't know if Mcgral18's incident is the one Mystere is referring to, but from Mcgral18's take, it sounds like the Tier argument got started by one of the other players. I haven't ever known Mcgral18 to be an elitist type player that would deliberately go there on purpose. He's always had very sound arguments even before the Tiers were public.

The thing that irks me, is you and others are trying to make this whole thing appear as if the forums is just a cesspool of Tier 1 oppression, and that has simply not been the case. Even the thread created by Kristian is not really a bash against lower Tier players, but rather an unnecessary show of pride based around having a fragile ego.

Where exactly did I say that? I think you overreacted to my response to someone claiming people were just overreacting.

Well, it's either that or you were exaggerating.

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 October 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

If any group out there is being unfairly judged and prejudiced on these forums more so than any other group, it's the Tier 1 competitive players, most of whom don't even post here. That's why I took mine off. I want players to read my posts and take what I have to say just as any other player, not feel compelled to shy out of discussions nor react with passive aggressiveness simply because I have a graphic showing, "I play a lot and do okay."

And I call that mission accomplished.

So much for the accusation of being an incompetent "forum warrior" ... and worse.

Have a good day.

Edited by Mystere, 01 October 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Pjwned]

A number of people voted for it to be shown so that's what happened.

[pwnface]

As a Tier 5 player, stop oppressing me!!

[TLBFestus]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

I think that allowing us to view our own PSR tiers was a mistake. It hasn't generated any usefulness, but it HAS generated pointless strife. People bickering about how they are in the wrong Tier, taking "Pride" in their Tier, blaming their Tier for every loss (not for the wins, mind you, just the losses), and all that Mumbo-Jumbo.

Really, making our tiers known hasn't generated any positive results as far as I have seen. I don't give a crap about my Tier, but it seems that others view these tiers as some statistical God,. If the tiers weren't known, then people would not be blaming their Tier for their combat results, but just be blaming the teams at play. This would make more sense because Tiers don't bring weapons into combat; teams do.

You can't blame everything on a Tier, and knowing your Tier has ZERO impact on your ability to change your performance capabilities. Suddenly becoming conscious of your Tier has not made anyone better or worse at the game.

Maybe we should take it away so we can focus on the things that matter, like blowing up stompy Mechs.

EDIT
---------

So, Many people have stated that the Tier1 is a "goal" for them.

If a new player joins MWO and wins their first 50 consecutive matches, then they will not be in Tier 1. Not even Tier 2.

Tier 1 means you have been playing for long time. Nothing else, really. If the law of averages nets you a 50/50 win loss ratio, and you play for a long time, then you are Tier 1. Is that your goal? To get a 50/50 win/loss ratio?

How is that a lofty goal that requires a Tier rating? That's not very impressive.

Getting a 50/50 wn/loss ratio does not require knowledge of our tiers.

EDIT2
------------

There seems to be confusion about this system.

PSR is based on accumulater PSR Points. You get more points for winning well, fewer points for winning poorly, amd lose points for losing badly. You can get 0 or even some positive points for losing very well.

PGI said there are already players who have reached the PSR point-cap. They cannot get more points.

PSR is based on accumulated points, and playing at 50/50/W/L causes a net gain over time.

See Clarifcation#2
http://mwomercs.com/...-tiers-and-psr/

Just a question but if you "don't give a crap about your tier", why are you displaying it in the forums? The default option was do not display, yet you must have changed it.

[Aresye]

Mystere, on 01 October 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Actually, I was originally thinking of someone else.

Yours wasn't an expression of arrogance, just one of frustration and/or annoyance (and it was pretty obvious to anyone paying attention in that thread).

And although I did call you out -- because you did "go there" -- I saw it as a Freudian slip.



And now it's my turn ...



Where exactly did I say that? I think you overreacted to my response to someone claiming people were just overreacting.

Well, it's either that or you were exaggerating.




And I call that mission accomplished.

So much for the accusation of being an incompetent "forum warrior" ... and worse.

Have a good day.

I really have no idea what you're driving at then. So back on it goes, solely to annoy you, Mystere.

[Hydrocarbon]

Adiuvo, on 01 October 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

That's true, but I don't think it should take literally 1,000 games with near perfect w/l and matchscore to place someone appropriately. That's just dumb.

The train of thought seems to be: there's a lot to learn in MWO, all of it relevant, and it indeed takes LOTS of matches to learn & perfect it all.

I feel that's true for nearly all players. The tanks & choppers in BF games didn't use the same tactics, so I was very unprepared. People who spent nearly their entire past playing only MW2-4 may have had those skills, but most do not. Torso twisting, for instance, is something that took me a while to master.


I'd rather have a game be cautious about placing people than tossing them into the mosh pit on the first night.

[Tempest Omega]

Replying to the OP, I fully admit that I did not read past page one as I was just checking the forums before actually playing the game.

My opinion is different than yours. I like the fact that this information is available to us and I have not witnessed the level of conflict over this that you apparently have. Seen some on forums? Sure (some). Have not seen a single thing in game.

Do I think that PGI chose the best way for PSR to work? Heck no. I was under the impression that it was designed and put in place so high skilled players would not constantly be playing with people of a more casual nature which constantly resulted in odd game results. Note that I don't view a stomp as an odd game result. I personally believe that you could take the same two evenly matched teams and run a 100 games of those two exact teams and you would end up with stomps by both teams. In any event I do not believe this system will work the way the players had hoped.

Still knowing how it does work I can see why the little green arrow appears when it does and for me this is a good thing. One more goal besides just leveling mechs.

[Wintersdark]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

That's because the tiers are really just actvity-indicators. Paul said the Tiers are skill indicators because people tend to get better as they play longer. People in Tier 1 have enough drops under their belt to know how this game is played, and they tend to do well because of their experience playing the game


Remember that thread "That all those who doubted me..." and the OP shows his Tier1 rating as if he were a hot shot? He has a large number of matched played. Good for him. PSR does not measure skill, though.

Yeah, that's what I said all along.

Raising your PSR will happen over time unless you do very poorly, but you can increase it very fast with a bit of brain power.

I get roughly a full letters width per 6 matches or so. You just need lots of damage. Win or loss matters less (bit obviously a win is better)... Run the right mech/gear and you can shoot up.

[Summon3r]

Appogee, on 01 October 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Knowing my tier has given me an actual goal in MWO for first time in three years.

agreed

[InspectorG]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

I think that allowing us to view our own PSR tiers was a mistake. It hasn't generated any usefulness,

Disagree.

I can now see my own progress.

Quality of most of my matches has gotten better - harder and better teammates...usually.

I have yet to hear any QQ about PSR that wasnt already voiced before about MM.

[wanderer]

The flaw has been it being too hard to go down, too easy to go up.

I mean, I literally bottomed out my rating in lights at one point. Tier 3.

Edited by wanderer, 01 October 2015 - 03:28 PM.

[Triordinant]

Pjwned, on 01 October 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

A number of people voted for it to be shown so that's what happened.

PGI's method for collecting votes is flawed. If they really want to know what their players want they should insert a Patch that makes it so you can't launch the game unless you vote on the issue they think is so important that they want to hear from you. The way it is now, only a minority read the Forums and only some of that minority vote.