129 replies to this topic

[Future Perfect]

Skadi, on 08 July 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

Step 1 acquire Atlas
Step 2 equip with 2 AC10's and 1 AC20
Step 3 ???
Step 4 Lololololololol

Too bad then that you only have one ballistic hardpoint.

[theonlysandwich]

mwhighlander, on 08 July 2012 - 05:43 AM, said:

This is like comparing a medium laser to a large laser. One isn't better than the other, they are different. You cannot compare a cantaloupe to a melon. Sure, they are both fruit and one is bigger than the other, but that doesn't make it better.

but you can compare a cantaloupe to a melon. that's why taxonomic organization of species was invented. they're both of the family Cucurbitaceae. it's fairer, however to compare and contrast the differences between say, projectile weapons and laser weapons, because generally all projectile weapons share the same advantages and downfalls, as do all laser weapons. it's simply more debatable as to the advantage of one projectile weapon over the other. as for my two cents, if you can keep hits on target as you're engaging, the longer range and two ton advantage of the 10 would be your best bet. if you're a garbage shot, just stick to the 20.

[Sept Wolfke]

couple thoughts for those who care to read this deep into the thread:

how many people are gonna be playing the medium laser game? lots I bet since it's arguably the most efficient and commonly employed weapon in the game. this means the AC20 is gonna be in play against those foes (I'll bet that could be said 'the majority of foes')

20 damage to a single location is a game changer. 10pts (from the AC10) will dent a mech up, but 20pts tends to cause limb loss. that's pretty huge. beyond that, who wants to stay engaged with someone kicking out 20 damage to a location for an extended period? pretty much no one. remaining engaged with a foe that's kicking out 10pt hits is pretty much standard fare - whether it's a PPC, AC-10, or a large laser (same general category: main guns) battlemechs are made to handle 10pt hits but 20pt hits tend to breach armor and wreak havoc that mechs are less able to cope with.

(obviously I voted for the AC20)

[Akito272]

AC 20 will tear your mech. It will destroy your weapons, blow your arms/legs off.

A mech with 2 AC 20 can take light and mediums in one shot and real horrible damage to a heavy/assault.

[Future Perfect]

Akito272, on 08 July 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

AC 20 will tear your mech. It will destroy your weapons, blow your arms/legs off.

A mech with 2 AC 20 can take light and mediums in one shot and real horrible damage to a heavy/assault.

All mechs have twice the armor in MWO and also the AC-10 has 180 meters longer range than the AC-20.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Artaire, on 08 July 2012 - 05:13 AM, said:

AC10 9/10. AC20 is situational imo, the short range and low ammo makes it almost a burden, unless you have either manouverability or the right enviroment for it, i.e. Close quarters citymap

or hilly where you go passive and they dont see you before you see them

Future Perfect, on 08 July 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

All mechs have twice the armor in MWO and also the AC-10 has 180 meters longer range than the AC-20.

Yeah but they do that and dont modify the ammo they make projectile weapons all but worthless.
IE You make the AC20 an AC10 with less range and less ammo.

and the AC10 becomes a similarly lessened AC5

Edited by 514yer, 08 July 2012 - 09:37 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Have you noticed that in the screenshots most of the fighting and killing is done at like 46 meters or half the range of a small laser?

Keep in mind that all that range may not be as useful as you think it is.

[csebal]

Apple, say hi to Orange.

They are different weapons for different purposes.

For starters, AC10 is only marginally smaller or lighter than the AC20, but deals only half the damage. It on the other hand has a far better range.

So which one you should go for pretty much depends on the build you are considering. Short range brawler, nothing beats the punch of that AC20. Medium range on the other hand, well.. the AC20 is a little too short for that role.

Kanatta Jing, on 08 July 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Have you noticed that in the screenshots most of the fighting and killing is done at like 46 meters or half the range of a small laser?

Keep in mind that all that range may not be as useful as you think it is.

Have you considered, that it might be intentional so that you can get a nice look at the mechs and weapon effects? It would not make for an overly interesting video, if all you would see is someone sniping at a bunch of pixels in the distance.

I'm fairly certain, that very long range ballistic weaponry will not be overly useful, unless you have a very good latency and a knack for sniping in online games. All the various factors influencing the hit (aim offset due to network latency, enemy mech movement, projectile travel time) will make it very hard to land hits at long ranges. Medium range engagements on the other hand.. I can easly see combat happening 300-500m and that would be well past the AC20 range.

Edited by csebal, 08 July 2012 - 10:02 PM.

[Future Perfect]

Kanatta Jing, on 08 July 2012 - 09:40 PM, said:

Have you noticed that in the screenshots most of the fighting and killing is done at like 46 meters or half the range of a small laser?

Keep in mind that all that range may not be as useful as you think it is.

Thats because that it's noobs that are fighting.

Edited by Future Perfect, 08 July 2012 - 10:05 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

When the enemy Hunchback is in your face I'm pretty sure his AC 20 is going to outdps your AC 10. Oh ya you got more ammo, whoopy do, you'll still die first.

[Adm Awesome]

this is my rule of thumb, I fit a mech with the smallest possible of weapons I want. If all the slots are filled and he still has a lot of tonnage left over, you put larger version instead. Yeah the AC/10 may technically be a better deal but if you actually have 3 slots, and after you put that AC/10 your mech still has like 4 or 5 tonnage left over, then take it out and stick in an AC/20, because even if an AC/10 is better somewhat better, in the end, you're still going to be doing more damage with one AC/20 than with one AC/10

Also AC/20 does more total damage, with 20 shots you get 400 damage, the AC/10 with 36 shots will do 360 damage.

Edited by Adm Awesome, 08 July 2012 - 10:07 PM.

[Ubertron X]

In TT this was pretty clear as the better range of the AC10 gave you more tactical options, better to-hit numbers and thus better overall damage. With an AC20 you had only one option, and that was charge to the front line asap, else you would have been shot to pieces before you could bring the Ac/20's power to bear.

With the aiming required on a FPS I am not as sure anymore.

However an AC/10 and AC/20 have the same damage capacity for one ton of ammo, which is 100 (5x20 vs 10x10).

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

It also depends on the double armor (or double damage though that would be dumb as it would invalidate the doubled armor) thing. You double the armor you effectively halve the damage htey do and make energy based weaponry more attractive due to not having ammo

[Boneripper]

Hit hard or go home. Don't miss when you can shoot.

[Endless Ike]

Bobfrombobtown, on 08 July 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

As to the "it's not a shotgun" I stated "solid slug" ammunition for a reason. Not bird shot, not buck shot. Solid slug.
As to the whole "snipers don't use small caliber rounds for sniping," here have two gifts
Just because everyone in your CoD games uses something like a Barrett .50 cal sniper rifle does't mean that's what all actual military snipers use.

Your links prove my point:

The 5.56 Marine Scout Sniper Rifle has an effective range of 800 m; the advanced marksman rifle 550m;

the .50 Barrett has an effective range of 1,800 m. Large rounds travel further.

Edited by Endless Ike, 09 July 2012 - 10:48 AM.

[Vasces Diablo]

I like the AC 10 better for a reverse psychology sort of a reason. People tend to fear the AC 20, which makes people very cautious when they engage you. Forcing you to take the role of the aggressor as they pelt you from range.

When your rocking an AC 10, people are more willing to be risky/reckless and engage you when the circumstances are less than ideal for them, without thinking about the fact that an AC 10 is still pretty damn dangerous, especially to lights and mediums. Plus, engaging you at range isn't as affective.

[Ohmwrecker]

Autocannons always kind of felt like something I'd use just to be goofy, but nothing that I'd seriously want to rely on in a real battle. Lasers, PPCs and missiles always seemed to have so much more kick, especially from range.

[Thalas]

Situational, there's not enough variables to your question, I can think of a dozen arguments for each depending on the situation, one will never always be better than the other. I do generally like the range on the 10, but not always.

[trycksh0t]

While I can appreciate the sheer firepower of the AC/20, I've never been one for getting up close and personal. AC/10's have the range to provide mid-range DFS, while still being useful if things get close.

[Major Tom]

I think in this game an AC10 will be universally better than an AC20.
1. If you are faster than your opponent you can pick your range. Stay at long range against hunbacks, keep close against Catapults.
2. If you are slower than your opponent you have a lot more play during close and retreat (and lets face it if you can mount a 12/14 ton weapon payload there are plent of mechs out there that are faster than you).
3. ammo is a wash at 100 damage per ton, although cost may be differnt.
4. Heat (theory crafting). An AC10 generates the same heat as a medium laser, while an AC20 generates over twice that ammount.
5. The cheapest most efficient weapons are short ranged, which means using that AC20 places you in tremendous danger if you opponent is in a tight group and can cover each other.
6. Longevity. Every mech has twice as much armor, so fights will last longer. Even though each weapon has the same Damage/Ton ratio, the AC10 will be firing longer into matchs when enemy armor is thread-bare and easy to penetrate.
7. Less ammo. Lets face it, in 15-20 minute matches, you need to carry enough ammo for the entire fight, and even though the Damage/Ton ratio is the same, you have to carry twice as much ammo to get as many shots. The reverse arguement being you need half as many shots, but in an evenly matched battle it may come down to who runs out of ammo first (in which case a PPC is a better choice than either)